Unusual design of a free-flow hydropower station

[PlainName]

Yes, I don't understand what exactly is so bad about having lighting, refrigeration, computers and a few other things running 24/7 for free

It's irrelevant, because you are not going to get any of that from whatever nonsense is being presented in this thread 

No, but if we wanted to start a circus we now know where to find a clown 

[pcprogrammer]

Yes, I don't understand what exactly is so bad about having lighting, refrigeration, computers and a few other things running 24/7 for free

And how is it for free if you have to, at first buy the contraption and then replace the blades every so often, and what other maintenance is needed. Nothing is for free these days.

Just as the lures for switching over to for instance a heat pump. It pays it self back in so many years they state. No it does not. After so many years you most likely have spent just as much money as you would have when you kept running your gas system. And after that so called payback period the system might need replacement because it wore out.

As it happens we are looking into another solution for heating our house, because the hassle with fire wood is becoming to much for me. For the wife it is also a bother and she finds the smell very irritating, so a solution with fuel oil or pellets is not an option. Fuel oil is also phased out, but both would be cheaper to install. Running cost would be on par with the fire wood we use now or in case of the pellets somewhat higher.

An air to water heat pomp is very uneconomical in this region due to the fact that it needs resistive heating to cope with low outside temperatures. Geo thermal is much better in performance but costs an arm and a leg to install.

We are waiting for the quotations from some companies to see the differences. We did get some insight in running cost for both types. Air to water would cost us about 2200 euro per year in electricity were as ground to water would do 970 euro per year.

Any way you turn it the comfort is going to cost us.

[magic]

I'm not insisting that anything presented in this thread is practical but I objected to the notion that continuous 3kW isn't worth bothering with. Yes, it won't power peak loads and you will need other sources or very restrictive scheduling, but I wouldn't be surprised if actually most consumption at most households is by loads of less than 3kW over long time.

[RJSV]

   Not to rain on your picnic, there,....but;
   I'm wondering about regulatory stuff, boring and often unfair or unclear rules and all.

   Going into middle of stream might cause stresses on animal life nearby, like perhaps river otters, that sort of thing (that people often express that they care about.)
Pesky questions like this often get waved off.  But you could at least state that there aren't any regulatory concerns, for river beds and immediate surrounding property (even private lands).
   So, what is the waterway 'build-out' option, maybe for private lands and creeks ?   What about roads and ramps, or other access
points ?  I mean, is it simply "that's private land...don't worry." ?
   Oh yeah, (now that I got started), what about any occupational safety requirements ?  Any folks to be hired, to maintain the plant ?
Even drowning risks are taken into account when employees have to go wading, in a dynamic and possibly changing setting (seasonal rain overflows).

   I don't think a rational business and insurance person would feel 'safe and cozy' (with that 'energy' plant), without some defensive approach.

[pcprogrammer]

Yes, very good points.

And what about if a tree branch gets into the water and blocks the device. By by power.

Or like the, by RJSV mentioned, seasonal effect of a sudden rain flood taking your "power plant" away because the shoring's were not good enough.

[ebastler]

A couple of non-technical facts. Follow the money...

• German Treshchalov, the author whose papers Hydro has repeatedly shared, is not an academic researcher. He has led is own company, ERGroup or ERG, for the past 16 years: https://www.linkedin.com/in/germantreshchalov/?originalSubdomain=uz
  

• The Youtube channel Hydro has linked to twice in this thread has only those two videos, both put up over the past 8 days. And as it happens, that channel is also named ERG: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOTyVjisYjonxLLgKNtsUjw
  

• Otherwise, ERGroup does not have a lot to show for a company that has been in business for so long. But they will make it big "real soon now"^TM, with an innovative energy technology to be launched later this year: https://www.ergroup.asia/
  

• We still don't know who that mysterious "professor from Michigan" is, whose analysis Hydro has shared three times (and who just happens to publish in Serbian according to Hydro, so we only get censored English excerpts from his work).
  

And we still don't know how "Hydro" is related to this merry bunch, and what his interests are in all of this. Honi soit qui mal y pense...

[Andy Chee]

And we still don't know how "Hydro" is related to this merry bunch, and what his interests are in all of this. Honi soit qui mal y pense...

One thing that should be evident, Mr. Hydro lacks a certain amount of basic math, engineering, and science background.  I'm estimating Grade 10 level math & science.

[Hydro]

And we still don't know how "Hydro" is related to this merry bunch, and what his interests are in all of this. Honi soit qui mal y pense...

One thing that should be evident, Mr. Hydro lacks a certain amount of basic math, engineering, and science background.  I'm estimating Grade 10 level math & science.

Relax, guy !

I'm a businessman. I have no academic background. Only technical courses.
When I need it, I hire academics, engineers, programmers.

But it seems that you all don’t even have a technical education, so I definitely won’t hire you.

First does not understand that in order to stop a pulley by hand, you need to know not only the torque, but also the diameter of the pulley.

Another one managed to multiply 3 kW per millisecond and is proud of it.
Hey dude ! Try multiplying it by a nanosecond! You will get 0.000..... 0000952778KWh.
Your wife will be proud of you!

The third already from the first page of the topic threatens to find errors in the formulas.
It would seem that if you see them there, show them to everyone and prove to everyone that this is all bullshit.
But he doesn't do it!
Because there are no errors and therefore he cannot find them!

[Hydro]

Yes, I don't understand what exactly is so bad about having lighting, refrigeration, computers and a few other things running 24/7 for free

Absolutely right!
These technologies are not intended so much for Europeans, Canadians or Australians (although for them too).
But to a large extent for farmers in Pakistan, India, China, Africa, and South America.

As we say:
ਚੰਗੇ ਇਰਾਦੇ ਅੱਧੀ ਲੜਾਈ ਹਨ

[Hydro]

@Hydro, do you even understand how much energy is 1J/s which is 1W?

According to the table you posted, such a hydropower station of 1m depth produces 3430 Joule per second. This is 3430W and boils down to 0,000952778KWh. Good luck in powering your house with it.

     

Another factor.
3 kW at with a depth of 1 m (turbine height) is being actively discussed and no longer seems to raise doubts.

A conventional free-flow turbine (Darier turbine or Savonius rotor) under such conditions according to the Betz limit can theoretically produce only 0.5 kW * 0.59 = 0.295 kW

However, as can be seen from the table, increasing the vertical size of the turbine (depth) increases the turbine power in a cubic dependence.

Thus, by increasing the vertical size to 1.5 m, we will increase the turbine power by 1.5^3 = 3.375
That is, up to 11 kW
And daily energy production is 275 kWh!

Is this not enough for anyone else’s home?

[IanB]

Another factor.
3 kW at with a depth of 1 m (turbine height) is being actively discussed and no longer seems to raise doubts.

A conventional free-flow turbine (Darier turbine or Savonius rotor) under such conditions according to the Betz limit can theoretically produce only 0.5 kW * 0.59 = 0.295 kW

However, as can be seen from the table, increasing the vertical size of the turbine (depth) increases the turbine power in a cubic dependence.

Thus, by increasing the vertical size to 1.5 m, we will increase the turbine power by 1.5^3 = 3.375
That is, up to 11 kW
And daily energy production is 275 kWh!

Is this not enough for anyone else’s home?

There is no such power because all the numbers quoted are fiction and no such device can operate in the manner described.

[Hydro]

[pcprogrammer]

Another one managed to multiply 3 kW per millisecond and is proud of it.
Hey dude ! Try multiplying it by a nanosecond! You will get 0.000..... 0000952778KWh.
Your wife will be proud of you!

Get your own facts straight. The number I stated is per second. Multiply it by 3600 and you get the alleged 3.4KWh. There is nothing wrong with the math I used there. Converting energy expressed in Joules to KWh means simply divide by 3600000. Look it up on the internet.

And I owned up to the fact that I overlooked the continuous nature of the alleged 3430J/s.

I say alleged because what is on paper is yet to be proven to be correct in real live, and the first video does not show it, no matter the size of that pulley.

[Hydro]

• We still don't know who that mysterious "professor from Michigan" is, whose analysis Hydro has shared three times (and who just happens to publish in Serbian according to Hydro, so we only get censored English excerpts from his work).
  

Shared even three times ?? 
Did you count?
Commendable!

What attention the topic has attracted!
And you say it's not interesting... 

For me it is defined as Serbian.
And you ?

[ebastler]

I get it that you have no scientific background, man. But could you please learn to adhere to just the minimum of a proper scientific discourse, by disclosing your full sources? No screenshots of partial documents, no blanked-out names, but actual links to the source? It is not difficult.

On a more general note, I don't get your approach to this thread. You seem to look for validation of the technology. (In an electronics forum, which is not the best place to start with, by the way.) But if technical validation is what you want -- why don't you give us the full information? And why do you push back so heavily if someone criticizes the technology? Isn't criticism exactly what you came for?

[magic]

You seem to look for validation.
Isn't criticism exactly what you came for?

Another clown

[Hydro]

You seem to look for validation.
Isn't criticism exactly what you came for?

Criticize.
You have everything for this.

You had 9 pages of discussion for this.

And if you want to criticize the authors.
Write to the authors or to the journal.
All the details are there.

Go ahead !

[ebastler]

I get it that you have no scientific background, man. But could you please learn to adhere to just the minimum of a proper scientific discourse, by disclosing your full sources? No screenshots of partial documents, no blanked-out names, but actual links to the source? It is not difficult.

So what about that Serbian paper from Michigan? Source?

[Hydro]

I gave the sources.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5317741/#msg5317741

Are you blind?
Get over it for now.
When you do, I'll give you more.

[ebastler]

I gave the sources.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/unusual-design-of-a-free-flow-hydropower-station/msg5317741/#msg5317741

Are you blind?
Get over it for now.
When you do, I'll give you more.

Those links are obviously not the sources for the scan you showed here and multiple times as a Google translation. The one from the "professor from Michigan", you know?

I was beginning to consider that your interest might be sincere, but you have conviced my otherwise again. You are either trying to troll us or to con someone.

Let's get back to chocolate chip cookies, that was by far the most rewarding discussion in this thread yet.

[eutectique]

What attention the topic has attracted!

Shouting expletives in a crowded place with pants down would attract the same sort of attention and would be equally embarrassing.

For me it is defined as Serbian.

Yet another fail. This is Russian.

[PlainName]

Let's get back to chocolate chip cookies

Gets my vote 

As it happens, I am expecting to receive a batch of the previously posted recipe in the next day or two.

[Hydro]

What attention the topic has attracted!

Shouting expletives in a crowded place with pants down would attract the same sort of attention and would be equally embarrassing.

This is clearly not our case.
For example, when I see something like this, I just avoid it. And if it’s shown on TV, then I switch the program.
All intelligent and smart people do this.

I'm sure everyone here is like that.
Or not ?

[Hydro]

I'm sorry.
Urgent business matters have arisen. I'm very busy right now.

I found out everything I wanted in this topic.

You can close it or you can continue to discuss anything here.
At least cookies.

[tggzzz]

I'm sorry.
Urgent business matters have arisen. I'm very busy right now.

I found out everything I wanted in this topic.

You can close it or you can continue to discuss anything here.
At least cookies.

Yeah. Right.