UK forum members, BREXIT?

[jancumps]

I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?

I see the division in another way.

-The people who got their income their whole life from BIG GOVERMENT, army, librarian,... or are into subsidized fields vote stay, afraid to loose taxmoney.

-The people who work for de-facto private companies or are de-facto independent in unsubsidized fields vote leave, afraid to have to pay more taxmoney.

Poll analysts reported that these 'money/work/education/commercial' considerations don't play a tipping role in the poll results.

They say that people with objective interests in a particular outcome who plan to vote against that outcome are found equally on both sides ...

Now, these are poll. We don't follow the same decision process for a poll as in the voting cabin.

[Marco]

Just ask in Texas....

It's 40% hispanic ...

[dannyf]

"The more nations, the more the competition, and the more the options.  "

I would agree. In the policy circles, people are beginning to realize that the peace dividend of winning the cold war is more like peace poison over the last few decades in its emboldenning of risk taking that would have been unthinkable had another strong power existed.

I'm personally a believer of a multi polar world where there exists AA balance of power, thus long lasting peace. It is good for everyone.

[NivagSwerdna]

I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?

The educated ones are 100% Go!   
To remain is insane.

[wraper]

I'm surprised at the poll, roughly split down the middle. I would have expected a much higher GO vote among an educated technical audience?

The educated ones are 100% Go!   
To remain is insane.

Educated in what? Polls show it is opposite, those who are smart enough to be rich, are more against it. Breakup never ends well, especially in the near future. Living in the country which have experienced this stuff (although in much bigger scale, UK is a country by itself after all), I cannot say that those who vote for it, do have a tiny clue what will happen next. Here we experienced a complete chaos. And I cannot say that after 25 years it have completely settled.

[NivagSwerdna]

Educated in what? Polls show it is opposite, those who are smart enough to be rich, are more against it.

You shouldn't believe everything you read.

[wraper]

Educated in what? Polls show it is opposite, those who are smart enough to be rich, are more against it.

You shouldn't believe everything you read.

Yet you call that 100% those against are insane??? There are tons of people in UK which will be directly negatively affected right away. Anyone who is exporting something will feel BREXIT on own skin.
EDIT: For example Simon (SparkyLabs) on this forum. Guess there will be significantly less of those who will to buy uCurrent from him.

[Kjelt]

Interesting to see the stats on age, looks like the future generations want to stay in and the generation from the past likes to leave.
What if those young ones will leave the UK? 

[NivagSwerdna]

Yet you call that 100% those against are insane???

No I didn't.  I said it was "insane to remain", which is something I believe.  The remain supporters are misguided, although probably a few are insane. 

[dannyf]

"looks like the future generations want to stay in and the generation from the past likes to leave.
What if those young ones will leave the UK?  "

I have heard that too. Thus the call your grand mom campaign.

Young people are interesting. They seem to support policies that absolutely kill them in the long run.

Like someone said to me: when you are young and Republican, you have no heart. When you are old and Democrat, you have no brain.

[FrankD]

A Brexit will be followed by a buy out. Gb still must pay there share in the dept that needs to be paid off by the EU. at a higher interest rate.

It is also foolish to think that the tax 'savings' from the brexit will benefit all. These usually ends up with the 10% of the population that controls 90% of the wealth.
The economic growth in the last 20..30 years is an illusion. It is mostly coming from running a higher national debt.

UK already has a better terms than the other EU countries. Those will be gone together with the veto rights on legislation.

[NivagSwerdna]

I was at Tower Bridge this morning, whilst on the way to work, to see the flotilla of trawlers go up the Thames.  The skippers are hard working fishermen who had a democratic right to have their voices heard.  What happened next saddened me, the behavior of the remain camp, Geldorf in particular, to disrupt freedom of speech by blaring out loud music whilst shouting and gesticulating obscenities was tragic.  I hope this gets the coverage it should, it was a clear demonstration of how democracy is dead on the remain side of the argument.

[Delta]

The UKopposition leader is officially in the remain camp, although it seems to be rather begrudging: I am not at all convinced he means it.

Jezza Corbyn is an old school lefty, part of the Old Labour party.  I think his policies are daft, but at least he is a man of principle.

Or so I thought until all this!

He has always been a Eurosceptic, and voted against the EU in the past.  And yet he has somehow been brow-beaten into supporting remain!
How on earth is it Old Left to support the state approved import of cheap labour from poorer countries?  The founders of the labour political movement would be spinning in their graves to see such a sell-out.  That's why Corbyn has been so quite on this.

[dannyf]

"What happened next saddened me, the behavior of the remain camp, Geldorf in particular, to disrupt freedom of speech by blaring out loud music whilst shouting and gesticulating obscenities was tragic.  I hope this gets the coverage it should, it was a clear demon"

Thats no different from those protestors at Trump rallies who try to shoot him out, block venues to his rally and attack his supporters.

The left is tokerant of any view as long as it is consistent with theirs.

It is often the case that people who demand diversity of others are the least tolerant to diversity themselves.

[NivagSwerdna]

The left is tokerant of any view as long as it is consistent with theirs.

Maybe it's not just the left.  Maybe we have outgrown tolerance... if so, it won't end well.

[tggzzz]

I'm personally a believer of a multi polar world where there exists AA balance of power, thus long lasting peace. It is good for everyone.

You ought to study game theory. It is always the case that such things are unstable, and will eventually settle down to two opposing power blocks.

[Rick Law]

Uhhh... isn't the US currently depending on Russia to launch rockets to the ISS? Speaking of which: the ISS is a collaboration of many countries. In other words: it doesn't matter whether a country is big or small as long as the countries are willing to work together great things can be achieved.

It always amazes me that people think that the USA won the space race. They lost in almost everything.
Intercontinental ballistic missile (August 1957)
Artificial satellite (October 1957)
Dog in space (November 1957)
Satellite to orbit the moon (1959)
Man into space (April 1961)
Man to spend a day in orbit (August 1961)
Long-duration flight for five days (June 1963)
Woman in space (June 1963)
Man to perform a spacewalk (March 1965)
Add stuff like the MIR, the Lunokhods, the Molniya satellites... And the fact that they are currently able to send stuff to orbit, unlike NASA.

I did not say whether USA won (or not).  The statement I made was that "we reached the moon within 10 years."  That was huge development.  Some consider "we won" because we reached the moon first.  Whoever the winner was, neither USA nor USSR did much after the space race was over.

That both were doing-less supports my point that absences the pressure of competition, the progress is impeded.

I futher posited that had the Space Race continued to this day, we may be on Mars already.  Instead, absence competition, we drew blanks after blanks once the Apollo program ended.  To add insult to injury, one of NASA primary goal now is Muslim Outreach^*1.  I don't care if it is Muslim outreach or Buddish Outreach or Amish Outreach, how would that help us reach beyond the moon?  And now we have to get a ride from someone else to even get into orbit!

Had there been competition, perhaps NASA would have focused more on Space - that is the S in NASA. 

Cooperation has its benefits, and has its costs.  Lost of competition is one of its costs.  Lost of National-pride and the resulting lost of national support is another costs.  Another possible cost is cooperation became a cover for doing less.  Therefore, one question to ask is: would EU itself become a progress-zapping entity, or not.

From where I sit, it appears to me EU is already a progress-zapping entity.  Like a living organism, a bureaucracy tends to focus on its own existance and its own growth.  EU bureaucracy will grow EU so as to expand the EU bureaucracy.  Progress of participating nations and the well-being of the citizens of the participating nations is but an after thought.

^{*1 Re "Muslim Outreach" - This was big news then, you can still see some links surviving to this day:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/07/nasas_muslim_outreach_106214.html
Excerpt: "It's not really surprising that President Obama told NASA administrator Charles Bolden that his highest priority should be "to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering." It fits with so much that we already knew about the president."}

[zapta]

... a bureaucracy tends to focus on its own existance and its own growth.

... as observed and formulated in the last century by a chap that worked in British Colonial Office.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Parkinson+law

[bitslice]

This is a bit worrying:

Communication on Online Platforms and the Digital Single Market Opportunities and Challenges for Europe
http://www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Platforms-Communication.pdf

pg12
basically it's suggesting a unique ID to authenticate yourself on the internet.

Now one of the things that keeps society from rapidly failing into a Totalitarian state, is the freedom to speak out anonymously on the internet about one's Government.

If they start requiring an ID to use social media, then you can kiss goodbye to discussing any non Politically Correct topics, because just like any right wing thinking on Facebook, it'll get deleted by Zuckerberg's progressive Thought Police and your name stuck on a watch list

No surprise that the arch Federalist, Juncker is behind this potentially nightmarish idea.

[Galenbo]

Poll analysts reported that these 'money/work/education/commercial' considerations don't play a tipping role in the poll results.

They did their best to generalise aspects of both camps in every breakline.

They still call a statefunded librarian or an anthropologue with a fixed-job-for-life in an arts museum "highly educated" and a welder and an baker "low educated"
They still call the company "greenbuilders ecoplan sunroof" private, but they get 90% of their income from the state.

After that, it's easy to not find anything, or quote that there's a 50/50 division between "private"or between "high educated"

Literally everyone I know that is funded by the state, with a useless productivity for the economy/progress, that would make much less money in private, is PRO-EU, PRO-Obama/Hillary, and has hate and fear towards everything that tries to rationalise their unnatural position.

[nctnico]

Had there been competition, perhaps NASA would have focused more on Space - that is the S in NASA. 

Perhaps making peace war on earth and putting food in people's bellies was regarded more important than putting a few people on Mars. Mars isn't going anywhere in the next couple of million years so there is enough time to go there.

[Marco]

basically it's suggesting a unique ID to authenticate yourself on the internet.

You're reaching, all they are saying is they want to take the power away from google/facebook from being the only a single log on and force websites to allow other type of universal logons less suited to data mining. Now it might be part of some nefarious scheme, but the document doesn't hint at it.

I'm more concerned about the term "hate speech".

[G7PSK]

It would not surprise me that even if there was a majority vote to leave the EU that we don't. The PM would fall either by his own hand or by a coalition of the Labour and SNP and Conservatives along with others who want to stay, this will lead to a general election which will be won by a coalition of Labour,SNP and Liberals who will turn around and say that as they did not call for the referendum,were never behind it and against leaving the EU they are not bound by the result they will keep the UK in the EU. We will end up being ruled by Angela Merkel and her knockoff clone Nicola Sturgeon.

[Brumby]

Young people are interesting. They seem to support policies that absolutely kill them in the long run.

A universal trait.

They have the openness of mind and rebellious attitude to take up 'new' causes, but not the critical thinking or experience of having lived through previous efforts.

“Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it” - and often the key elements are in the not-so-obvious detail.

[Marco]

a coalition of Labour,SNP and Liberals who will turn around and say that as they did not call for the referendum,were never behind it and against leaving the EU they are not bound by the result they will keep the UK in the EU.

I think you'd have a couple new terrorist organizations supported by a large part of your population the next day ... seems a bad idea.