UK forum members, BREXIT?

[dannyf]

I think our economic problems are our own making and very little do do with EU membership.

A more productive society will need to export to realize its competitive advantages and to build-up wealth. Unfortunately, two things necessarily happen:

1) as wealth goes up, the marginal utility of wealth goes down and people tend to not want to work as hard. That means their productivity levels off. It also means that people in poorer countries tend to want to work harder and becomes more productive.

2) as free trade expands, it exposes you to competition from other parts of the world. This puts particular pressure on the less mobile resources - the labor, as capital is more fluid.

when you combine those two together, you will conclude that a) over a long-period of time, quality of life tends to level off all over the globe. b) people on the lower-end of value-add will get hurt.

Thus, this arm race for middle income families to send their kids to good schools to advance or to keep pace with competition.

In the end, the tiger-moms are actually quite smart.

[vodka]

At least Thatcher (finally) got rid of a lot of labour intensive subsidized industries in the 80's and getting the tax system back on the rails. I still recall the massive riots on the news. The decline of UK manufacturing also has a lot to do with lack of quality. UK built cars are infamous for that and a prime example of how easy it is to sink an entire industry due to people not being motivated to do a good job

That the people were dismotivated was guilt of the labor union, there are that remember that the british labour union were more strongest than the french and Spanish.
Then the bussinessmans began to close or gave to death the corporation because it was impossible to achieve a economic goal. 

Simply ,the british suffered the same than Spanish when Franco died, and the vertical labour union(Falange y las JONS) became to horizontal labour union (CCOO and UGT), they began to strikes and boycotts
than the spanish bussinesman decided to close the factories and corporations. Beetwen 1975-1982  the 30% of the factories and corporations closed and the unemployed grew up until 2 Millon of the people withou job, when before hadn't unemployed.

And the same history will repeat with the french.

[FreddyVictor]

<snip>
And the same history will repeat with the french.

speaking of the French, saw this recently

France shuns Europe as Brexit revolt spreads

could be a 'domino effect' ....

[Karel]

Therefore I'm inclined to believe the people from the middle-east will adapt rapidly. After all the way the western society is now is much safer to live in and in the end people want to feel safe and raise their kids.

On the contrary, people from the mid-east tend to radicalize more and more.
Try to walk around dressed as an orthodox jew and see what happens.

Historically, jews are the canary in the coal mine.
When a society goes down the drain, it starts with discriminating and killing jews.
You see it everywhere now in Europe. There's no synagogue without some military with big guns to protect it.
It's a bloody shame.

[daqq]

Therefore I'm inclined to believe the people from the middle-east will adapt rapidly.

That's great! When that happens call me. Until then, would they mind very much going through their "lets implement medieval law for everyone and explode" period some place far far away?

[dannyf]

You see it everywhere now in Europe. There's no synagogue without some military with big guns to protect it.
It's a bloody shame.

So hundreds of years of "enlightenment" later, those "enlightened" Europeans are just as barbaric as they were?

Well, doesn't sound those years of "enlightenment" have done much for them.

[wraper]

[jancumps]

You see it everywhere now in Europe. There's no synagogue without some military with big guns to protect it.
It's a bloody shame.

So hundreds of years of "enlightenment" later, those "enlightened" Europeans are just as barbaric as they were?

Well, doesn't sound those years of "enlightenment" have done much for them.

You may have misread. The message says 'protect'.

[RGB255_0_0]

I suspect this is satire but there are people who actually think retardedly like this.

[wraper]

As of how it could directly affect me or others dealing with electronics parts, I guess Farnell will move most of it's business from the UK it to their Liege facility or build another facility in EU. Otherwise it will just kill their business. I will think twice before ordering to later deal with customs or pay additional fees of 7x of the delivery cost so UPS deal with customs themselves, still would need ton of paperwork. Also no next day delivery.
Guess there will be no point of buying anything other than small cheap things on on ebay from UK sellers.

[Nauris]

As of how it could directly affect me or others dealing with electronics parts, I guess Farnell will move most of it's business from the UK it to their Liege facility or build another facility in EU. Otherwise it will just kill their business. I will think twice before ordering to later deal with customs or pay additional fees of 7x of the delivery cost so UPS deal with customs themselves, still would need ton of paperwork. Also no next day delivery.
Guess there will be no point of buying anything other than small cheap things on on ebay from UK sellers.

If Digi-key can deliver their products in two or three days from USA (not member of EU) to my door duties paid, without paperwork and VAT invoiced later I would be suprised if Farnell cannot do same.

[Koen]

I fail to see what it would change for Farnell.

[Jeroen3]

Not much will change. It will be economic suicide to immediately start taxing all exports.

[kaz911]

...
I'm inclined to believe the people from the middle-east will adapt rapidly...

Good luck.

After living in the ME for 10 years - I can say that even the Middle Eastern Tribes (yes that is what they are) - are MORE racist than ANYTHING i have seen elsewhere. Even among / towards other local "Tribes" - which is why you do not see the rich middle eastern countries take ANY refuges despite many from Syria could walk there in much shorter time.

To live in a ME oil country - you get VISA for maximum 3 years - and you have to be able to support yourself and have a sponsor. To get family in you need to earn above a threshold to support the family. Then every 3 years - your VISA needs renewal.  To setup a local business you need a LOCAL sponsor who will own 51% of your business - unless you setup in a free-zone. But if you are in a free-zone you can't do business "locally" but have to sell via a local Agent (again minimum 51% owned by a "local") - to apply for trademarks - business have to be 100% owned by a local! A 3 year VISA can cost about 1000 GBP to get done. So why do we not do that in the EU?

1. Max 3 year VISA's - can be renewed but never for more than 3 years at a time - and never permanent
2. Charge for VISA's
3. Business only in 51% co-op with a "local"

The rich oil countries are flooded with people from other Arab speaking countries  - who can make good money there (Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, Moroccan, Jordanian  etc) - but the rich states will not take people who can not earn their own living. They all head for Europe where we take them in at a huge cost.

But now - all the ME refugees talk about - is how lovely it is to live in the EU where you don't have to work for a living and everything is given to you. Workshops are held in "local EU countries laws" - so upon arrival they know what to say - and what to ask for. (or demand)

Yes - I am all in for helping people in need - but lets help them closer to their home - and just because they get entry (VISA) it should only become permanent in extraordinary circumstances. Lets help the ones in real need - where it is cost effective and we can provide for them closer to home - so WHEN war stops - it is an easier trip home. We can build houses and villages for 10-20% of the cost in Turkey - and feed, educate and care for them for another 10-20% of what it costs to have them come to EU and house and feed them here.

But EU representatives does simply not get it at all.

/rant over

[wraper]

Yes - I am all in for helping people in need - but lets help them closer to their home - and just because they get entry (VISA) it should only become permanent in extraordinary circumstances. Lets help the ones in real need - where it is cost effective and we can provide for them closer to home - so WHEN war stops - it is an easier trip home. We can build houses and villages for 10-20% of the cost in Turkey - and feed, educate and care for them for another 10-20% of what it costs to have them come to EU and house and feed them here.

No way EU should give any money to Turkey. Because Turkey is one of the main reasons why the war in Syria and this flood of people exists in the first place. Actually Turkey is blackmailing EU and EU acts like if it is Turkey's bitch which is a real shame.

[zapta]

Europe, ridden with political correctness and guilt, lost the ability to protect itself against an inversion. This disease is now spreading to the US.

As for the UK, you built something good for yourself. Protect it as much as you can, just as you ancestors did.

[bitslice]

You see it everywhere now in Europe. There's no synagogue without some military with big guns to protect it.
It's a bloody shame.

So hundreds of years of "enlightenment" later, those "enlightened" Europeans are just as barbaric as they were?

Europe was fine, it's what Merkyl has chosen to import by the million that has created problems.

I see last night Obama has imported the same issue into Orlando. His naive mistake is going to generate headlines like that for decades to come.

All this was so avoidable, Spain has a teenage unemployment rate of 45%. They should have invited them all over to Germany, France, UK and Sweden, offered them free training and housing.
That would have been cheaper in the long run and have created zero cultural friction in all those host countries.

but lets help them closer to their home - We can build houses and villages for 10-20% of the cost in Turkey - and feed, educate and care for them for another 10-20% of what it costs to have them come to EU and house and feed them here.

This was what Cameron was doing, it was a great plan.
I reckon if Meryl hadn't gone insane then this Brexit thing would be a non issue, but people see what happened in Sweden and Germany and are scared, they want to get away from her and the destruction she has initiated for Europe.

[zapta]

All this was so avoidable, Spain has a teenage unemployment rate of 45%. They should have invited them all over to Germany, France, UK and Sweden, offered them free training and housing.

"He's from Barcelona".

;-)

[Tandy]

"He's from Barcelona".

;-)

"Keh?"

[bitslice]

"He's from Barcelona".
;-)

Sorry, nope,
but for me I'm just pointing out the bleeding obvious.

UK and Germany have an ageing population and we need a few million teenagers to come and live here, Spain has a few million teenagers twiddling their thumbs, and we already like the Spanish.
There is an obvious synergy here right?

But noooooooooooooooooo, insane Merkel would rather import a million followers of the world's pariah religion, shortly after we've bombed all their cities to dust.

[3db]

I think our economic problems are our own making and very little do do with EU membership. In or out you still have to address the issues of long term planning and a decline in manufacturing.

At least Thatcher (finally) got rid of a lot of labour intensive subsidized industries in the 80's and getting the tax system back on the rails. I still recall the massive riots on the news. The decline of UK manufacturing also has a lot to do with lack of quality. UK built cars are infamous for that and a prime example of how easy it is to sink an entire industry due to people not being motivated to do a good job.

And a lack of investment.
And shitty management /leaders in both the companies and unions.
Lets also remember that the Unions in Germany were much bigger and stronger than in the UK.
Germany had a fraction of the problems the UK had with their industry.
Oh and I seem to recall that the most subsidised industry in europe at the moment is the finacial sector. 

Did I mention that the Nissan car plant in the UK is one of the best they have in the world.

3DB 

[dannyf]

To live in a ME oil country ...

Seems to be a really good policy, and they execute it to the letter of the law, unlike many western countries.

But now - all the ME refugees talk about - is how lovely it is to live in the EU where you don't have to work for a living and everything is given to you. Workshops are held in "local EU countries laws" - so upon arrival they know what to say - and what to ask for. (or demand)

thanks to politicians the voters helped elect.

But EU representatives does simply not get it at all.

Because those guys don't bear the costs of their generosity - you do. If it is their wives' throats that got slit, their kids that got raped, their bank accounts that got drained, their neighborhood that got burned, ..., I'm pretty sure they would have reacted quite differently.

They are basically inviting complete strangers to a party at your house.

[grumpydoc]

Did I mention that the Nissan car plant in the UK is one of the best they have in the world.

^ This shows that

And shitty management /leaders in both the companies and unions.

^ This is one of the more significant causes of the decline in the UK motor industry.

I'm not quite sure why we were (are?) so shit at management - possibly there was a class thing going on but we were.

[Tandy]

Personally I think the reason the car industry died in the UK was meddling by government. Companies that succeed are not run by bureaucrats or members of the old boys network, sooner or later that kind of company is left in the dust by proper business people.

I live in Oxford that once had a major motor industry with Morris motors, this then became Austin Rover and later BMC. While the state run BMC failed miserably jobs in the BMW mini plant are now sought after. Bureaucrats have this innate desire to regulate things and micromanage creating an environment that discourages innovation.

[3db]

I think the BMC Mini could be described as an innovative vehicle.