UK forum members, BREXIT?

[doobedoobedo]

But the very fact that Europe is so keen for us to get on with it should give us cause to pause. We should get on with it, certainly, but we should concentrate on the best solution for the UK and this looks like a bargaining chip we should not squander. Especially as it is clear no one is keen on making it easy for us.

Sorry Mr. Grumpydoc, it was the wish of the UK people to leave, the EU wanted you to stay. Now, *poof*, congratulations, your wish was granted. Now, please, leave us asap to minimize any hassle on either side. There is already a lot of money burned by your action, not only in the EU but all around the world. Any further delay wont make you any friends.

Lets see, it's been just over a day since the result was announced.

The arrogant drunken idiot in charge of the EU has gotten all huffy.

If the EU was democratic then this situation wouldn't have arisen. It only has itself to blame.

[doobedoobedo]

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

Yip.  And there looks like there's going to be nothing the European people nor even EU elected politicians can do to stop it.  THAT is the arrogant autocratic shit from which we have voted to escape.

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

Like our Brexit voters you do not seem to realise that TTIP is exactly what the majority of EU state government, most especially the UK government, want.   The reason the EU appears anti-democratic is because it is doing exactly what national governments want, and national governments find it convenient to use the EU as an alibi for doing the neo-liberals'  bidding.  Either because they think it is a good idea or simply for bribes.  In this country most government ministers and top civil servants get hugely overpaid 'consultancy' jobs with big corporations after they leave office.  The EU doesn't 'dictate' anything (except perhaps to small or poor countries), it does exactly what the big states want it to do.

And now they can't hide behind the EU.

[apis]

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

Yip.  And there looks like there's going to be nothing the European people nor even EU elected politicians can do to stop it.  THAT is the arrogant autocratic shit from which we have voted to escape.

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

Like our Brexit voters you do not seem to realise that TTIP is exactly what the majority of EU state government, most especially the UK government, want.   The reason the EU appears anti-democratic is because it is doing exactly what national governments want, and national governments find it convenient to use the EU as an alibi for doing the neo-liberals'  bidding.  Either because they think it is a good idea or simply for bribes.  In this country most government ministers and top civil servants get hugely overpaid 'consultancy' jobs with big corporations after they leave office.  The EU doesn't 'dictate' anything (except perhaps to small or poor countries), it does exactly what the big states want it to do.

And now they can't hide behind the EU.

Considering the Anglo-American “special relationship” I'm sure Britain will have their very own TTIP (with ISDS intact) expedited in no time, now that no pesky MEPs are in the way insisting on niceties like democratic and transparent processes...

[Macbeth]

Enjoy TTIP when the EU hands over your sovereignty to US corporations.

Yip.  And there looks like there's going to be nothing the European people nor even EU elected politicians can do to stop it.  THAT is the arrogant autocratic shit from which we have voted to escape.

I do not take my mandate from the European people.

Like our Brexit voters you do not seem to realise that TTIP is exactly what the majority of EU state government, most especially the UK government, want.   The reason the EU appears anti-democratic is because it is doing exactly what national governments want, and national governments find it convenient to use the EU as an alibi for doing the neo-liberals'  bidding.  Either because they think it is a good idea or simply for bribes.  In this country most government ministers and top civil servants get hugely overpaid 'consultancy' jobs with big corporations after they leave office.  The EU doesn't 'dictate' anything (except perhaps to small or poor countries), it does exactly what the big states want it to do.

And now they can't hide behind the EU.

Considering the Anglo-American “special relationship” I'm sure Britain will have their very own TTIP (with ISDS intact) expedited in no time, now that no pesky MEPs are in the way insisting on niceties like democratic and transparent processes...

Nah. Obama explicitly stated that if the UK leaves then all our trade deals will be at the back of the queue. So we will see what happens after the EU drunker Juncker manages to rattle off a scrawled signature signing away the rest of Europe to the globalist corporations despite all your concerned citizens and MEPs being totally against TTIP.

[bitslice]

Because Cameron explicitly asked the EU to keep silent. There was the fear that anything from outside the UK would be considered to be foreign intrusion and counterproductive to the stay camp.

Obama's "you'll be at the back of the queue, peasants" put down, that was a million Leave votes right there.

[doobedoobedo]

It was Dave looking smug as Obama threatened us that got us the votes.

[Wilksey]

Obama has apparently backed down and said we are still friends with our "special relationship" still going on, I think all of the companies threatening to leave the UK etc have backed down apparently, we have allegedly gotten trade offers from Russia and China, and the Germans have said "no worries" to us still trading, several other countries apparently want to leave the EU.

All it means is that we might have to fill in another form if we want to trade with another country or travel / live there, people from the UK go and live in Aus and US, no difference really!

Cameron is a royal C*nt and tried to bully and scare people into remaining, but his plan backfired, apart from Gibraltar, Scotland, Ireland and London, most if not all of the other places voted majority leave.

There are benefits in staying and benefits in leaving, yes it might not work out for the UK, or it might, but it's like anything, it's a risk, but a risk worth taking I think.

People in other European counties are as happy to see us go as we are of going, others are sad to see us go, whilst some are glad we have gone but because it gives them hope that one day they will be able to leave also, so more of a "well done" than "good riddance".

We are still in Europe, just no longer having to take orders and dictation from a bunch of jumped up power tripping nob heads.

The main reason I voted leave was apart from the smugness of Cameron thinking he had swayed everybody into remaining, was the fact that we now have control over what we want to do with regards to immigration and benefits, our government wanted to make it a rule that you had to be here 4 years before claiming benefits (for doing sod all by the way) but EU ruling said no, but the main reason was if we were to remain the NHS would cease to exist, which is a service we all rely on!

[0xdeadbeef]

Let me say first say that it somewhat makes me said to see the Brits leave. I always loved music from the UK and I still feel much closer to British than than to American culture. And while I always said that I'd rather see them leave than stay without compassion or at least a clear majority, I kinda assumed (and a part of me hoped)  they would finally decide to stay. Not because the EU needs the UK, not because the EU will fall apart without the UK but because the UK was always a part of Europe and should belong to the EU.

Then again, honestly, the UK never really became a true member of the EU anyway. They were lured to join with lots of concessions and rebates and in the end only agreed since they were convinced at some point that they would have a financial benefit from being a member. I feel they never really understood or wholeheartedly supported the European idea. And that idea is not mainly about financial interests. Still I found it somewhat shocking to learn that even the "stay" supporters would mainly reason about financial benefits or losses but not at all about anything above merely fiscal arguments. So if less than half of UK voters were willing to stay for the wrong reasons, it makes it much easier to let them go.
Talking of wrong reasons: while I also feel a lot of sympathy for the Scots and really believe that they understand the non-fiscal part of the European idea much better than the English, I somewhat fear that at least some of them voted more against England than for the EU.

It's kinda sad and disturbing to see that so many Brits live in a delusion of past glory and actually seem to believe that the UK would become "strong" again whatever this is supposed to mean. Hell, some people even uttered crap about ruling the sea. Jesus Christ, the times of Great Britain ruling over other countries are over and the Commonwealth is reduced to symbolism and playing cricket. The past is past and everybody should look in the future instead of a reliving dreams of a time that is long gone, will not come back and was not so glorious anyway.
I just feel sorry for the young Brits who will most probably face a grimmer future in whatever remains of the (formerly) United Kingdom in a few years.
And yeah, the people in Gibraltar are pretty much screwed as well.

[apis]

Obama basically said the US cares more about a trade agreement with all of EU than a single country since the EU-market is so much bigger, which makes sense. Why they (Obama and Cameron) supposedly believed that saying that would make more people vote for remain I'm not sure.

Of course everyone are sad that the UK is leaving, it will hurt every other country in the EU trading with the UK and make all of EU weaker with less diversity. It will also make the UK much weaker and insignificant. Maybe in the future Europeans will go there for vacation and the UK can survive on tourism? Brexit only makes Putin and Trump happy because it makes Europe weaker.

we have allegedly gotten trade offers from Russia

EDIT: for the record, I wish the EU could be better friends with Russia as well, every one benefits from peace and better relations.

[Artlav]

So, have someone already dropped the pun that the EU now have 1 GB of free space?
...anyone?

[nctnico]

Of course everyone are sad that the UK is leaving, it will hurt every other country in the EU trading with the UK and make all of EU weaker with less diversity. It will also make the UK much weaker and insignificant. Maybe in the future Europeans will go there for vacation and the UK can survive on tourism? Brexit only makes Putin and Trump happy because it makes Europe weaker.

I don't think so. Which country will get the first EU-lite subscription? Yes: Ukraine!

[doobedoobedo]

Let me say first say that it somewhat makes me said to see the Brits leave. I always loved music from the UK and I still feel much closer to British than than to American culture. And while I always said that I'd rather see them leave than stay without compassion or at least a clear majority, I kinda assumed (and a part of me hoped)  they would finally decide to stay. Not because the EU needs the UK, not because the EU will fall apart without the UK but because the UK was always a part of Europe and should belong to the EU.

Then again, honestly, the UK never really became a true member of the EU anyway. They were lured to join with lots of concessions and rebates and in the end only agreed since they were convinced at some point that they would have a financial benefit from being a member. I feel they never really understood or wholeheartedly supported the European idea. And that idea is not mainly about financial interests. Still I found it somewhat shocking to learn that even the "stay" supporters would mainly reason about financial benefits or losses but not at all about anything above merely fiscal arguments. So if less than half of UK voters were willing to stay for the wrong reasons, it makes it much easier to let them go.
Talking of wrong reasons: while I also feel a lot of sympathy for the Scots and really believe that they understand the non-fiscal part of the European idea much better than the English, I somewhat fear that at least some of them voted more against England than for the EU.

It's kinda sad and disturbing to see that so many Brits live in a delusion of past glory and actually seem to believe that the UK would become "strong" again whatever this is supposed to mean. Hell, some people even uttered crap about ruling the sea. Jesus Christ, the times of Great Britain ruling over other countries are over and the Commonwealth is reduced to symbolism and playing cricket. The past is past and everybody should look in the future instead of a reliving dreams of a time that is long gone, will not come back and was not so glorious anyway.
I just feel sorry for the young Brits who will most probably face a grimmer future in whatever remains of the (formerly) United Kingdom in a few years.
And yeah, the people in Gibraltar are pretty much screwed as well.

We are part of Europe, but we don't belong in the EU. It is the EU we have rejected, not the ordinary people of Europe.

The EU is fundamentally opposite to us culturally. As a German, I don't expect you to understand. I know a lot of Germans, mostly we get on, and we can have a drink and a laugh, but none actually understand English culture, just as I don't understand some of the things I've come across in Germany ('being the father' - culturally acceptable bullying from my point of view), we have very different history and geography and have made our way to where we are now separately.

My kids aren't facing a grimmer future now we've released ourselves from the EU. There may be some temporary pain, but we'll get past it to hopefully a brighter future where we aren't tied to the failing EU experiment.

[MK14]

So, have someone already dropped the pun that the EU now have 1 GB of free space?
...anyone?

The UK gained 1 TB of free space, when Tony Blair left.

[nctnico]

The EU is fundamentally opposite to us culturally. As a German, I don't expect you to understand. I know a lot of Germans, mostly we get on, and we can have a drink and a laugh, but none actually understand English culture, just as I don't understand some of the things I've come across in Germany ('being the father' - culturally acceptable bullying from my point of view), we have very different history and geography and have made our way to where we are now separately.

I hate to break it to you but every country in the EU is culturally very different compared to another. Even in the smaller countries you'll find regional differences in culture.

[bitslice]

Otherwise it like standing in the door, refusing going out and closing it finally, but instead pissing in the room for owner's appreciation.

Have you met my cat?

[doobedoobedo]

The EU is fundamentally opposite to us culturally. As a German, I don't expect you to understand. I know a lot of Germans, mostly we get on, and we can have a drink and a laugh, but none actually understand English culture, just as I don't understand some of the things I've come across in Germany ('being the father' - culturally acceptable bullying from my point of view), we have very different history and geography and have made our way to where we are now separately.

I hate to break it to you but every country in the EU is culturally very different compared to another. Even in the smaller countries you'll find regional differences in culture.

And there was me thinking that everyone was exactly the same. Thank you for being so direct.

[ez24]

It was Dave looking smug as Obama threatened us that got us the votes.

I just heard on PBS someone saying that Obama made up his mind to vote to leave.

[zapta]

Nah. Obama explicitly stated that if the UK leaves then all our trade deals will be at the back of the queue.

Obama says many things. The UK is our primary ally.

[bitslice]

Then again, honestly, the UK never really became a true member of the EU anyway.

Well, yes and no,

The idea of a group of Nations we could trade with on an equal basis, we wanted that.

But Germany's idea of a European superstate, that was entirely alien to us (but very much in line with German thinking)
All it created was nationalism throughout Europe, which then led to Brexit.

The UK didn't leave the EU for fun, we were forced out by Junkers' federal power trip and his intransigent attitude to everything, and Merkel clinched the issue by scaring the crap out of Europe by importing millions of the great unwashed, and then demanding the rest of Europe sort out her mess 

Oddly enough Cameron knew that the drunkard Junkers would ruin Europe years ago and opposed his appointment. A pity he wasn't listened to.

German politicians created Brexit, nobody else.

[Corporate666]

I think you're giving the public too much credit. It seems people didn't know what they were voting for or that their vote even counted if you go by some of the videos of interviewers talking to randomers on the street. It's nuts to think the people voting for Big Brother or I'm A Celebrity are the ones deciding on such an important matter. 

This is a common trope by elitist would-be-fascist dictators... that the public is too stupid to be entrusted with their own freedom and need to be ruled by their intellectual superiors.

There's nothing to indicate that a higher education level or even a higher IQ makes one better suited for geopolitical decision making.  Perhaps even the opposite as a lot of the elitist illuminati are insulted from the realities of life for much of the country and just presume everyone else should like or be like them, when such is impossible.

Of course people knew what they were voting for.  The news media is trumping up stories like "searches for 'what is the EU' skyrocket" to let the aforementioned wanna-be fasicsts feel a sense of satisfaction and righteousness about their desire to implement dictatorial tyranny.

[rstofer]

The UK is the US's only credible ally in the region.  I would imagine we will get our trade deals in order pretty quick.  The framework is already complete and there really isn't going to be much difference between trading with the UK and trading with the EU from our point of view.  I just don't see trade as being such a big deal to get settled.  We buy/sell stuff and the UK buys/sells stuff.  Pretty straightforward!
What, we're going to halt the containers at the border while we talk for 2 years?  Hardly!

The US needs the UK - preferably the entire UK...

[Corporate666]

Just look at the greek situation. It is really sad, that such a relativ insignificant dept ruins a country because EU is not integrated enough to just pay it of and institute changes which solve the underlying problems in a way that's beneficial for the greek people.

Their debt was not insignificant, and the problem was not just the debt, but how it came to exist and what was being done (or even could be done) to prevent it blowing up again.

The idea that "we need more control over sovereign nations so we can dictate to them how to live" is scary, frankly.  Of course, it's always done under the guise of "we're just doing what's best for you - because you don't know yourselves what is best". 

If people really think this way, the EU needs to end immediately before some pretty horrific things become justified in the name of "helping others who don't know how to best help themselves".

[MK14]

You guys don't really have much trade with the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States

That looks big/significant. Three times what it is with Australia!
Quite a lot more than France.

Were you looking in the right column ? (the rightmost one, seems to be the wrong one).

[Corporate666]

  It's a form of 'direct democracy' and it has a big flaw, often called the tyranny of the majority. My experience with it here in California is that any special interest group(s) just need to raise enough money to qualify some referendum onto the State Ballot and wham, some very silly or very expensive or something with too much unintended consequences gets passed onto a generally uninterested voting (and non-voting) population. I believe in representative democracy, and mostly fear direct democracy.

Tyranny of the majority applies to things which are wrong from a human or moral perspective but which would be easily passed by a majority, with the net results of being tyrannical to the victims of the law.  Things like slavery (easy to vote for unless you're the slave), or voting a 100% tax on the wealthiest and such.

Tyranny of the majority does not apply to issues which affect everyone relatively equally and for which everyone gets a say in the outcome. 

Representative democracy on an issue such as this is just a euphimism for the elites wanting a way to dictate to the plebs how they will live because they know better what is in their interests than the subjects of the law know themselves.  That is tyranny.

[bitslice]

Representative democracy on an issue such as this is just a euphimism for the elites wanting a way to dictate to the plebs how they will live because they know better what is in their interests than the subjects of the law know themselves.  That is tyranny.

That's pretty much what the new middle class Labour party has been doing for years, Blair and Miliband talking down to the smelly plebs, insisting that diversity was good for them because only they could see the benefits of the bigger picture.

It was inconceivable to the London elite that the working class would actually care about the destruction of their own communities.

This group has been manipulated into staying silent by a liberal media - until they were handed a vote that is. Then it's Et tu, Brute.