UK abolishes <£15 VAT free imports. EU to follow.

[madires]

[...] The issue occurs if the seller includes local VAT in the price then adds additional UK VAT on top so the buyer pays VAT twice ! [...]

Yes, the EU based sellers now have to treat the UK as an export - which is of course more hassle, so many sellers choose to leave the price alone and pocket the difference as a fee for the extra processing!

They can't keep the local VAT. If they bill VAT they have to pay/transfer the VAT to their tax office.

[SilverSolder]

[...] The issue occurs if the seller includes local VAT in the price then adds additional UK VAT on top so the buyer pays VAT twice ! [...]

Yes, the EU based sellers now have to treat the UK as an export - which is of course more hassle, so many sellers choose to leave the price alone and pocket the difference as a fee for the extra processing!

They can't keep the local VAT. If they bill VAT they have to pay/transfer the VAT to their tax office.

When you buy something via eBay, the price in the listing does not contain a separately billed VAT element.   In the US, eBay adds sales tax to whatever the listing price is, whether or not that listing price included VAT. 

So, for example, if a US buyer purchases from a UK seller, they will pay whatever the price seller listed at (which may include local VAT if he is registered).  Then, they will get dinged again with US sales tax. 

Good luck contacting the seller and asking for a VAT refund!

This same situation now applies to residents of the UK - think of it as your contribution to sovereignty, which is priceless, so you really got a bargain! 

[all_repair]

Yah, it is a problem paying other country VAT with no certainty of getting the money back, or have to go through a lot of hassle to get back.  For MUST have item, I shall take the risk and go through the pain.  BUT almost all the time, I did not proceed after a moment of mental struggle.  On too many occasions, I did not do the final check out for my items from UK sellers.

[IanB]

So, for example, if a US buyer purchases from a UK seller, they will pay whatever the price seller listed at (which may include local VAT if he is registered).  Then, they will get dinged again with US sales tax.

Historically it has been the case that if I were to buy something from Amazon.uk and give a delivery address in the USA then the price charged would exclude VAT. If delivered within the UK then the price would include VAT.

I have not checked whether Brexit has changed that.

[Fraser]

The issue of VAT (and possibly DUTY) being applied to imports to the UK from the EU was discussed on the BBC "The One Show" evening chat program today. One thing that was mentioned that caught my ear was the case of a person buying some £300 shoes for a discounted price of £70 from the EU and getting clobbered for VAT, Duty and Processing Fees by the courier. Apparently the value of the item dictates whether the VAT is collected by the seller or courier .... sounds simple except that the "value" is the RRP and not a discounted price ! That meant the shoes were considered to have a value of £300 when it came to who collected the VAT. The courier charged a large chunk of money for paperwork fees. Something to be aware of. Thankfully the VAT is charged on the amount paid and not the notional RRP Value !

Fraser

[SilverSolder]

The issue of VAT (and possibly DUTY) being applied to imports to the UK from the EU was discussed on the BBC "The One Show" evening chat program today. One thing that was mentioned that caught my ear was the case of a person buying some £300 shoes for a discounted price of £70 from the EU and getting clobbered for VAT, Duty and Processing Fees by the courier. Apparently the value of the item dictates whether the VAT is collected by the seller or courier .... sounds simple except that the "value" is the RRP and not a discounted price ! That meant the shoes were considered to have a value of £300 when it came to who collected the VAT. The courier charged a large chunk of money for paperwork fees. Something to be aware of. Thankfully the VAT is charged on the amount paid and not the notional RRP Value !

Fraser

And don't forget, Customs officers have the power to assign notional value to anything - no matter what the paperwork says.  E.g. if they think the Lamborghini Countach you are importing with a declared value of $45 doesn't sound reasonable, they can always up it! 

[Monkeh]

The issue of VAT (and possibly DUTY) being applied to imports to the UK from the EU was discussed on the BBC "The One Show" evening chat program today. One thing that was mentioned that caught my ear was the case of a person buying some £300 shoes for a discounted price of £70 from the EU and getting clobbered for VAT, Duty and Processing Fees by the courier. Apparently the value of the item dictates whether the VAT is collected by the seller or courier .... sounds simple except that the "value" is the RRP and not a discounted price ! That meant the shoes were considered to have a value of £300 when it came to who collected the VAT. The courier charged a large chunk of money for paperwork fees. Something to be aware of. Thankfully the VAT is charged on the amount paid and not the notional RRP Value !

Fraser

That's nonsense, the value of the goods is the price paid.

[Fraser]

I agree, but that is what apparently happened 

[Towger]

The VAT and DUTY were to be expected as part of brexit. What suprises me more is the likes of M&S not knowing of the country of origin rules.  I knew them, yet their professional buyers were cought on the hop.

But my biggest complaint is the eBay search engine still thinks the UK is in the European Union. With the extra charges, unless the item is less than €22 inc P+P, buying from France, German etc is far cheaper.

[petematthews]

In case anyone else is interested, LCSC (cheap components supplier) have confirmed via email they will be dealing with UK VAT, which is great

Good day. Thanks for contacting us.
Please rest assured! I confirm with our leaders that the registration for a VAT/EORI number is under processing now. However, it may cost 6 weeks as we are informed.
Please keep close attention to LCSC.
Thank you.

Woo! Thanks folks

[Microdoser]

Well here is one data point:

Ordered £115 of parts from Whitebox Labs in Switzerland + paid for standard postage, during checkout I was told that I would be liable for local taxes and normally these parcels are held back by Royal Mail until tax is paid (along with their £8 fee).

Parcel was delivered this morning without any issues, saving me about £30.

Currently, in transit are some PCBs from JLCPCB who said in their T&Cs that they pay tax under £135, so I will be interested to see if that also is delivered without any problems, but more importantly without extra cost.

[Microdoser]

Small update, the circuit boards I ordered from JLCPCB using their cheap n slow postage have arrived and are at my local delivery office waiting for me to pick them up, it seems nobody was in when they tried to deliver (rubbish, we were totally in)

Unlike previous times I have used Royal Mail though, there is no card asking for VAT nor a charge for doing so.

The era of cheap boards, at least currently, is still here and has become cheaper:

Merchandise Total: ￡40.69

Shipping Charge: ￡7.72

Order Total: ￡48.40

And that is it. No tax, no fee for collecting said tax either. On their website, JLCPCB do say that they will collect tax on orders up to £135. It seems Royal Mail think that too.

Just noticed that their numbers don't add up either. I cut and pasted them from my order and the total is a penny short...

[Fraser]

That saving of a £8 paperwork fee can be a real bonus and it is far more than £8 with many courier companies. I paid £12 to Parcel Force for Customs paperwork and I think UPS are charging £11. From memory FedEx charge a high paperwork fee so I used to avoid them.

Fraser

[Microdoser]

That saving of a £8 paperwork fee can be a real bonus and it is far more than £8 with many courier companies. I paid £12 to Parcel Force for Customs paperwork and I think UPS are charging £11. From memory FedEx charge a high paperwork fee so I used to avoid them.

Fraser

Exactly. Previously the same order would have been £66 (with their £8 fee and £10 for the tax)

Hopefully this is the way things will be moving forward.

[bodger]

Hopefully, this is also true for DHL deliveries. It was a right pain when I used to order over the £15 limit. Now hopefully I don't have to worry about orders under £135 being held back till customs is paid.

[Fraser]

The other issue I have had is my parcel being delivered by the courier and no fee demanded at the time of delivery. Then a week or so later I receive a letter demanding payment of VAT and the paperwork fee. One courier company tried to hit me for VAT and paperwork fees a week after delivery on an item from Turkey. The accompanying documentation clearly detailed that it was a P2P purchase.  I enlightened that courier company about the VAT rules active at that time. P2P non commercial = no VAT was due. They never contacted me again.

Fraser

[vad]

So how exactly are they going to police collection from foreign sellers ?

Marketplaces like eBay will automatically collect VAT, based of shipping address.

About a year ago they implemented similar thing for  sales tax collection if the US:

Let say I’ve sold used lens on eBay for $2,000, and the buyer is in Kirkland, WA. The buyer will be charged $2,204. Of those, $130 is collected Washington state sales tax, $0 is King county sales tax, and $74 - Kirkland city state tax.
I, as a seller, after being ripped of by eBay and PayPal, will get $2,000 less $220.40 eBay final fee (yes, they compute final value fee on tax too), other eBay fees if any (placement fee, various marketing fees, purchase of discount shipping labels, etc), and $64.22 PayPal fee (they charge PayPal fees taxes too).

So at the end:

Buyer pays $2,204
Seller gets not more than $1,715.38 into their PayPal account
WA revenue office gets $130 directly from eBay
Kirkland city gets $74 directly from eBay
PayPal pockets $64.22
eBay rips off the seller $220.40+

As a seller, there is no way to evade sales taxes

[SilverSolder]

So how exactly are they going to police collection from foreign sellers ?

Marketplaces like eBay will automatically collect VAT, based of shipping address.

About a year ago they implemented similar thing for  sales tax collection if the US:

Let say I’ve sold used lens on eBay for $2,000, and the buyer is in Kirkland, WA. The buyer will be charged $2,204. Of those, $130 is collected Washington state sales tax, $0 is King county sales tax, and $74 - Kirkland city state tax.
I, as a seller, after being ripped of by eBay and PayPal, will get $2,000 less $220.40 eBay final fee (yes, they compute final value fee on tax too), other eBay fees if any (placement fee, various marketing fees, purchase of discount shipping labels, etc), and $64.22 PayPal fee (they charge PayPal fees taxes too).

So at the end:

Buyer pays $2,204
Seller gets not more than $1,715.38 into their PayPal account
WA revenue office gets $130 directly from eBay
Kirkland city gets $74 directly from eBay
PayPal pockets $64.22
eBay rips off the seller $220.40+

As a seller, there is no way to evade sales taxes

And the funny thing is, sales tax is collected on used stuff too, e.g. selling a dilapidated old pot or pan or piece of rope now attracts sales tax, which was never the case in the past - imagine charging sales tax at a garage sale!

This is simply a downside of using "Big Tech" to sell your stuff.   Perhaps smaller web sites will have a renaissance, since they can now be cheaper than Big Tech? 

Shopping locally, without all kinds of people insisting on having a cut of the deal just for existing, is making more and more sense...

[tszaboo]

Hopefully, this is also true for DHL deliveries. It was a right pain when I used to order over the £15 limit. Now hopefully I don't have to worry about orders under £135 being held back till customs is paid.

VAT is calculated for the product, shipping charges and any other charges.
Meaning that you are practically never below the 15 GBP limit, since the shipping with DHL is more than that.

[Kjelt]

The customs office blooper of the year.
This guy ordered an €50 clockradio in Japan and was charged €73000 because the customs estimated the value of thepackage as €300000 without opening it 
(Dutch audio only but with the above explanation there should not be an issue)
https://www.sgxl.nl/eddy-zoey-73000-euro-pakketje

[Jan Audio]

If i see eddy zoey name i know its a joke by him that moron he is.

He opens a can of fish for a tv show, places a dobber that is to big to fit inside and he complains and send it back, he wanted the free stuff for his tv show, crazy person, dont believe anything of him.

[Microdoser]

JLCPCB have changed their order page.

All orders are now DDP (pre-paid taxes) including the royal mail option.

[tycz]

Hopefully, this is also true for DHL deliveries. It was a right pain when I used to order over the £15 limit. Now hopefully I don't have to worry about orders under £135 being held back till customs is paid.

VAT is calculated for the product, shipping charges and any other charges.
Meaning that you are practically never below the 15 GBP limit, since the shipping with DHL is more than that.

In my experience, the de minimis for customs is from the goods value only. Maybe some carriers are charging tax on the shipping cost, but this could only happen if the goods value is already above the threshold.

[tszaboo]

OK, so instead of complaining, I think I should take action.
Does anyone know a freight forwarder in china, that can forward packages and take care of taxes? So basically DDP. They should also operate in the small package region, so I want to use them for packages that are 25 EUR in value, so their overhead cost should be reasonable. Package combing would be nice.
I've checked the superbuy, but they seemingly dont offer DDP, only offer fraud on the declared value -> not cool.

[Jan Audio]

If you order ali they pack together also if you order the same day.