Two phrases I'm sick of hearing; "open source" and "arduino"

[Bored@Work]

p.s.  I don't get the pothead reference?

pothead == someone smoking pot
pot == marijuana
artists == potheads
Arduino made for artists
You get the idea? People completely stoned and then believing they are embedded engineers, just because they do the Arduino thing. This is like someone downloading a ringtone to his cell phone and therefore believing he is an RF engineer now.

I don't care if the potheads play with electronics. I, however, despise them, when they make a big fuzz out of blinking an LED, calling that a master thesis and getting a fucking masters degree in arts for this. They are like parents of a child that first manages to use the potty when shitting and the parents make a big fuzz about the shit. Potheads, I don't care about your shit. Keep it to yourself, so I don't have to face the shit and smell it.

And did you note that the Arduino "inventors" like to insult EEs? There is some whining piece out there where some of them makes fun of the way engineers attempt embedded engineering. Oh, these engineers actually think learning electronics is a good idea? How stupid of those engineers. Potheads. Would these fucking potheads had a little bit more clue they wouldn't have made so many mistakes with the hardware and software. Fuck, I don't tell these potheads how to do art. So please fucking potheads, don't tell me about how to do engineering.

And while I am at it, let me correct

Hey, is C++, just with the most stupid fucking name ever invented for a fucking programming language.

What was meant was

Hey, it [meaning Wiring] is C++, just with the most stupid fucking name [meaning Wiring] ever invented for a fucking programming language.

And while I am still in the mood, do you believe the story of the birth of the Arduino? Do you believe it? Fuck, I don't. Designed to meet the cost of a pizza? Ha, have you seen the original price of the Arduino, before the Chinese clones appeared? Must have been a fucking expensive gourmet pizza. Give me a break. That story of the pizza smells like a fucking marketing lie (Make PR department maybe?).

[JohnS_AZ]

I don't care about your shit. Keep it to yourself, so I don't have to face the shit and smell it.

Jeeze, you make it sound like someone has tied your Dilbert butt to your cubical chair and forced you to watch Arduino videos.

There's an old OLD joke ...
"I went to the doctor and told him it hurts when I do this. (rotates arm up and down) The doctor said 'Don't do that'"

If the Aruino pisses you off so badly, stop reading / watching videos about it.

[Mechatrommer]

so the problem is with those fucking potheads, not the arduino.

And while I am still in the mood, do you believe the story of the birth of the Arduino? Do you believe it? Fuck, I don't.

well, maybe some politics in there.

And while I am at it, let me correct

Hey, is C++, just with the most stupid fucking name ever invented for a fucking programming language.

sorry, i misunderstood that line.

Jeeze, you make it sound like someone has tied your Dilbert butt to your cubical chair and forced you to watch Arduino videos.

this thread triggered him. let him do his talk, sometime i enjoy this kind of environment

If the Aruino pisses you off so badly, stop reading / watching videos about it.

this thread is about pissing the arduino off. and sure someone (or many) will get into the debate.

[Zero999]

I don't know why anyone would get pissed off with the term open source. I think free software is a more silly name because most people think of software which can be obtained free of charge rather than software which you are free to modify and redistribute at will.

All right may be being open source doesn't automatically make it an excellent produce but being transparent and easier to modify is definitely an advantage to proprietary software which can't be modified.

As far as PCs are concerned: fair enough the old Intel architecture was way behind its competitors but I wouldn't say the same is true for x64. As far as I'm concerned it's the most dominant operating system which is the main problem and being closed source doesn't help either. The hardware being open has driven down prices and made computers affordable to everyone.

[ColinA]

I give this thread a 10++ on the rant scale..

Paste open source on anything these days and it seems people jump onboard. Like most things open source where is the substance? And like other major open source products rhetoric will die down overtime. Will there be a few people that make award wining designs, yes.

Arduino = Gateway drug to EE

[glossywhite]

You tell it Brother!

Whenever I hear the... <snip> (zzzzzz)

Anger management?

[Zad]

I don't think it is a gateway drug as such, it is more like those basic IT courses that make people think they are suddenly an experienced IT consultant after 2 weeks. The trouble is that management actually believe this and it drags down the perceived quality and value of real engineers.

[glossywhite]

I don't think it is a gateway drug as such, it is more like those basic IT courses that make people think they are suddenly an experienced IT consultant after 2 weeks. The trouble is that management actually believe this and it drags down the perceived quality and value of real engineers.

Management & marketing are usually educated idiots, AKA morons. Fact.

[Myrmidon]

Real engineers would use whatever they had to, to get the job done.

I use Arduino, PIC's, AVR's and freescale boards at Uni.  I don't bitch and whine about any of them.  This is just typical jealousy of something doing well, you see it in all walks of life.  I recall for a while it was PIC's that were getting the same treatment.

Ridiculous!

Also, as Arduino is an AVR ucontroller, and you can program it in actual ambedded C, I fail to see what the hell your point is.

[Mechatrommer]

Also, as Arduino is an AVR ucontroller, and you can program it in actual ambedded C, I fail to see what the hell your point is.

agreed... and want to make an addition. you can program arduino not just in the plain C (AVR Studio) or "wiring crap" or "sketch" that people complaining about, but you can do it in asm as well, if you want to.

[wardenclyffe]

Yea I posted that same documentary a few days ago but I have to say I am not a fan of the Arduino either.

[Bored@Work]

This is just typical jealousy of something doing well, you see it in all walks of life.

It is not done well, it is a fucking piece of shit. Lets take v2.0a, I.e. major version 2, with a tiny revision "a" - definitely not the first prototype batch.

• It already starts with the number of mounting holes. Three. What fucking pothead puts only three mounting holes on a board, so that when you put it on standoffs it falls over?
• What fucking pothead puts the 6 pin ISP header too close to the AVR, so you can't mount a standard shrouded header (to avoid plugging in the programmer the wrong way, esp when dealing with students)?  And by the way, how much pot must they have smoked to call the header ICSP (A Microchip term), instead of ISP (the correct Atmel term)?
• But that isn't enough. Because, what fucking pothead puts one of the mounting holes in a position that it also prevents to mount a standard shrouded header?
• And what fucking pothead not only uses two different footprints for T1 and T2, but also mixes them up? T1 should have a three-in-a-row footprint, but has a triangle one. T2 should have a triangle one, but has a three-in-a-row? And by the way, don't get me started on that fake RS232 interface they build with these transistors. A design back then widely acclaimed by Arduino fanboys as ingenious. Only, that the Arduino potheads copied that design, and it is fare from ingenious, as it doesn't work within the electrical limits of RS232.
• Enough? No. The fucking potheads forgot to provide solder pads for the grounding brackets of the "DB"9.
• And, of course, the non-aligned headers.
• And another fail, the female headers, instead of mail headers on the Arduino. You put the mechanical more robust part of a connection on the more valuable or more important part. Because replacing it is more risky. Since male headers are more robust, the Arduino should have them, and the shields should have female headers to mate.
  

What did you say? "something well done"? It just takes two minutes and a clue to figure that they botched that PCB layout and the mechanical stuff. In a v2.0a, not in a prototype. And these potheads want to show engineers how it should be done?

But once again, I don't care if the potheads play with it and love it. Just don't try to sell it to me as "well done", don't sell it to me as ingenious engineering, and don't try to force it down my throat. And I am definitely not jealousy. I would be ashamed if that PCB was my work.

[cybergibbons]

I've got no idea where to start with that... the design has come on a long way from where you mention.

It's had 4 mounting holes for a long time.

ICSP and ISP are interchangeable terms. It doesn't matter really, does it? Why not use both?

I've got TI dev boards and Altera dev boards that don't have shrouded headers. I've had motherboards with the IDE not shrouded. Explain why it matters?

They've been fully SMT for a fair while, so triangle or 3 in a row isn't an issue.

Though the RS232 worked with practically every PC, so it didn't seem to be a problem anyway.

It's USB now, so no DB9. Not all DB9s have solder pads for grounding anyway.

The female headers make it easy to insert normal jumpers between the board and a breadboard. It's a £20 board, and the chance of the headers breaking is low. I can also think of plenty of counter examples - VGA, DVI, 3.5mm audio.

You can base your opinions on a 3 year old board, or look to what is on offer today.

[glossywhite]

This is just typical jealousy of something doing well, you see it in all walks of life.

It is not done well, it is a fucking piece of shit. Lets take v2.0a, I.e. major version 2, with a tiny revision "a" - definitely not the first prototype batch.

• It already starts with the number of mounting holes. Three. What fucking pothead puts only three mounting holes on a board, so that when you put it on standoffs it falls over?
• What fucking pothead puts the 6 pin ISP header too close to the AVR, so you can't mount a standard shrouded header (to avoid plugging in the programmer the wrong way, esp when dealing with students)?  And by the way, how much pot must they have smoked to call the header ICSP (A Microchip term), instead of ISP (the correct Atmel term)?
• But that isn't enough. Because, what fucking pothead puts one of the mounting holes in a position that it also prevents to mount a standard shrouded header?
• And what fucking pothead not only uses two different footprints for T1 and T2, but also mixes them up? T1 should have a three-in-a-row footprint, but has a triangle one. T2 should have a triangle one, but has a three-in-a-row? And by the way, don't get me started on that fake RS232 interface they build with these transistors. A design back then widely acclaimed by Arduino fanboys as ingenious. Only, that the Arduino potheads copied that design, and it is fare from ingenious, as it doesn't work within the electrical limits of RS232.
• Enough? No. The fucking potheads forgot to provide solder pads for the grounding brackets of the "DB"9.
• And, of course, the non-aligned headers.
• And another fail, the female headers, instead of mail headers on the Arduino. You put the mechanical more robust part of a connection on the more valuable or more important part. Because replacing it is more risky. Since male headers are more robust, the Arduino should have them, and the shields should have female headers to mate.
  

What did you say? "something well done"? It just takes two minutes and a clue to figure that they botched that PCB layout and the mechanical stuff. In a v2.0a, not in a prototype. And these potheads want to show engineers how it should be done?

But once again, I don't care if the potheads play with it and love it. Just don't try to sell it to me as "well done", don't sell it to me as ingenious engineering, and don't try to force it down my throat. And I am definitely not jealousy. I would be ashamed if that PCB was my work.

If good design is not immediately evident, then it evidently is not good design. I am a designer, and I dislike being told that something is something, when it is very obvious by just looking at it, that it isn't.

I agree with what you're saying, although I don't have an "Ardweeeener" to look at, nor do I desire one.

[Mechatrommer]

bored or glossy, i think you should start re-design arduino,or perharp rename it to something more sensible. sell it and promote good ee/software design along the way. some members here are attempting arduino like stuff with pic, i think thats a good thing. if you want to fuck the potheads, then by all mean, give them some lesson and,... fuck them!

[williefleete]

whatever next. you gonna start knocking the PICAXE users next. i know picaxe isnt exactly industry standard etc and is relatively slow but some things have there place,  just let them be, if you dont like it dont complain about it.
im pretty neutral about things until i try something i havnt played with arduino and i personally wouldnt mind a shot at it, at the moment im hooked on the picaxe 08M for most of my projects

[JohnS_AZ]

I guess the guys at FTDI are just a bunch of potheads.   

USB silicon and software specialist Future Devices Technology International Limited (FTDI) announces Vinculo, an embedded development platform inspired by the popular Arduino Duemilanove / Uno.

http://embedded-computing.com/ftdi-2-0-connectivity

[tyblu]

Did someone say pot, 'cause I want in the next time it gets passed around.

[the_raptor]

And these potheads want to show engineers how it should be done?

No. They don't.

They want to make electronics more accessible to "designers and artists". Arduino is designed so an artist can plug in some wires and some sensors and get stuff happening without knowing pretty much anything about electronics or micro-controllers. Some of us who know more about electronics like it because the large amount of peripherals allows complex projects to be done without having to design a PCB.

And seriously people whining about the naming? Yeah because "C" is a completely sensible and obvious thing to call a programming language. Also WTF is an "ATMEL"? "Wiring" is a lot more sensible then most programming language names (Ruby, Python, Perl, Java, PHP, C#) as it is referring to the graphical analogy used by the IDE. Arduino is called Arduino because they named it after a pub on a whim back when it was a university project.

[flapjackboy]

Just to add my voice to the pro-Arduino side.

Arduino is not, nor has it ever claimed to be aimed at electronics professionals therefore, any criticisms that can be leveled at it by said professionals are irrelevent because you're not their target market. Being the consumate professionals you are, you'd never use one, so why the hostility towards it?

Yes, some poor design choices were made in the earlier versions, but in the current board designs, most of these have been rectified and those that haven't such as the header spacing are there for legacy reasons. Sure, the header spacing was a design slip, but if by pure accident, the design does indeed prevent you from plugging in a shield the wrong way, why not let them claim it as a feature? After all, many products we use today are the results of mistakes during design. Take Post-It notes for instance. The adhesive used on them was discovered by accident whilst Spencer Silver was working on another project for 3M. Just because something happened by mistake doesn't mean it can't have useful applications.

At the end of the day, you guys bitching about the Arduino on here isn't going to make a blind bit of difference. You don't use it anyway, so it doesn't affect your lives in any meaningful way. Like I said, the Arduino isn't marketed towards you guys, so why throw your toys out of the pram when it gets so much coverage? If it sparks an interest in electronics in people, isn't that a good thing?

[glossywhite]

Let me tell you something; until "Ardweeennnnooo" has a more sensible name for it's IDE and product, it just appears to be a toy for people who don't want to invest the time and knowledge into doing things properly, by knowing how to code in a real language. Yes, it is great that it is an entry to MCUs for those who are clueless, but "sketches"?... "wiring"? Really?  ha ha ha!! Here comes a Dave quote:

"You gotta be SHITTTTTTT'N ME!"

[flapjackboy]

Let me tell you something; until "Ardweeennnnooo" has a more sensible name for it's IDE and product, it just appears to be a toy for people who don't want to invest the time and knowledge into doing things properly, by knowing how to code in a real language. Yes, it is great that it is an entry to MCUs for those who are clueless, but "sketches"?... "wiring"? Really?  ha ha ha!! Here comes a Dave quote:

"You gotta be SHITTTTTTT'N ME!"

View nice from up there in your ivory tower?

EDIT: And what, pray tell would you classify as a suitable name? Something that more resembles a part number like the EZ430-F2013 - MSP430? Yeah, hardly rolls easily off the tongue, does it?

Look, we get that you don't like it. That's obvious, but in the grand scheme of things don't you think you're letting your intellectual elitism get the better of you here? Real language? I suppose you hard code every instruction in raw binary then, since anything else is simply an abstraction from the core logic of the device and therefore not a 'real' language.

It's elitism such as yours that really get my back up. So what if the Arduino doesn't meet some arbitrary standard of design perfection that you have set. It does a job and it does it well enough that there are many thousands of people who have gained an interest in electronics and many more, like myself who are rekindling a spark that had nearly gone out.

[Mechatrommer]

by knowing how to code in a real language

what real languange? i programmed arduino in C (Arduino IDE), is it not a real language? not it is?

"You gotta be SHITTTTTTT'N ME!"

Anger management?

[Chasm]

Here comes a Dave quote:

"You gotta be SHITTTTTTT'N ME!"

Not really, in this case it would have been "Marketing made me change the product."

[flapjackboy]

Oh and in case you didn't notice during your rant about the 'bad design' of the Arduino, the original serial board (i.e. the one you ripped into) did have your precious male headers as can clearly be seen here.