Twenty passengers on missing flight 370 worked for Freescale Semiconductors

[CaptnYellowShirt]

"The story goes that a long time ago, in a faraway, and mythical country, which we'll call China, everyone wanted to know how long the Emperor's nose was. Of course to be seen even trying to look closely at the Emperor's visage - let alone to hold up a (different!) ruler to it - would have invited instant, or I should say, far from instant, death. But so many people were curious, that a group of sages got together to look for a method of finding the answer, and this is what they came up with.

Questionnaires were printed and sent out in bundles to cooperating village chiefs, who distributed them to the peasants. Literacy was at a sufficient level that most were able to complete the single question, which was, of course: "How long do you think the Emperor's nose is?"

When the forms were collected, mathematicians added up all the values, and divided by the number of forms. Thus it was known that the length of the Emperor's nose was 6.734602 cm. The complete set of data was of course preserved, and many years later, with advances in statistical understanding more advanced mathematicians pointed out that fringe values - obviously the product of deranged minds - were distorting the honest opinions of the rest, and by eliminating them and using the very latest numerical modelling techniques, the mathematicians corrected this value to 4.980403 cm. To this day, no-one has produced a better estimate."

[tom66]

I have no idea if this fact is relevant in this case, but as it doesn't seem widely known, I will post this link:
TL:DR,  B777 avionics bay is accessible inflight from pax cabin.



Edit:spelling

Huh, that is quite a glaring problem.
It would require two hijackers one to subdue the crew and the other to pull breakers.
I presume you pull the breaker to the cockpit door lock? And it opens? Is there no mechanical override?
If you wanted to crash the plane it would be as simple as pulling power to the engine management systems, presumably.

[EEVblog]

Re: Post Censorship.
If this is a "General Chat" part of the overall forum, I don't think it fair that certain topics are considered 'off limits'. If posters wish to express their views about something that might even be total tin-foil hat then they should be allowed to  - with perhaps some reasonable limits on numbers of posts and lengths of posts (that should be stated in advance).
Yes, this IS your backyard and you set the rules, but I think the application of those rules has been a bit unfair.

For the record, I also think it's unfair, but it is what I and the moderators have to do.
This has been debated many times, and as big an advocate for free speech as I am, it pisses me off to have to do this. But I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that is must be done, otherwise the forum will just go to crap.
If left as free-for-all then religion threads will dominate the Top 10 list, only to be matched by the equally passionate conspiracy theory people.
The result is that the "Unread post" thread gets filled up with this crap and turns people away form the forum who are here for the electronics.
I am trying to build a community of people who like talking about electronics, and that simply can't happen if it's a free-for-all.
But I also understand that this is a community, and people come here to chat to the friends as well as talk electronics, so some limited off-topic threads like these are allowed. Because a heavily moderated forum forced always on-topic is just as bad as a free-for-all.
The number of posts we have to edit here is very limited. Maybe one of two a week out of the 700+ a day. So self moderation and leading by example on this forum is working well.

[deth502]

guys, you can stop worrying about it now, courtney love is on the case. this will be solved in no time now.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/master-sleuth-courtney-love-thinks-shes-solved-the-malaysia-airline-mystery/

[Tinkerer]

You are telling me that in our houses we all have fire/smole sensors at $10 a piece but in a multimillion dollar plane those are absent? 

It's a harder engineering problem than it first seems. What about dust from the undercarriage? That can trigger false alarms.  Such a bay is rarely cleaned and has many fans from the equipment running continuously.

I would have gone with temperature sensors rather than particulate sensors. In fact, having the sensors spread around would probably be of great value in notifying the pilots etc if there was an abnormal high temperature at some location that needed to be checked. Whether the manufacturers or anyone else would find the cost/benefit worth it is up for debate.

In regards to what happened, the plane either crashed in practically one piece or it didnt crash; or perhaps its just a fluke they havent looked in the right area yet.

So far what I have heard from something more out there is that there was warning of an aircraft like this being electronically high-jacked before this happened. Putting together that with the fact of that last transmission, what if someone sent the pilots orders to turn off the transponder/etc?(acting as an imposter to the normal traffic controllers) The pilot responded with that last transmission and then whoever it was took it from there.

[pickle9000]

If an actual fire I would expect multiple system failures (that would show up in the cockpit). Smoke detectors would probably be the best bet because if an actual fire did break out it would be magnitudes worse. In any case fire + airliner = bad.

I read about the flight computer reprogramming. Apparently 8 keystrokes added a single way-point to the flight plan (8 keystrokes was from the CBC Canada web site the rest was from the nytimes website). Timing either not reported by the computer or to the media.

This link is a fairly interesting bit relating to how the flight computer is programmed. I've been ignoring all the stuff about the pilots but it does seem that the last voice contact was from the copilot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?hp&_r=0

 

[Kjelt]

Well at least I have a much better insight why they still haven't found Amelia Earharts plane, if they even can't find a Boeing jumbojet in 2014 with all those satelites up there.

[TerraHertz]

A couple of interesting articles in the New York Times, yesterday and today:

20140318
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?hp&_r=0
Lost Jet’s Path Seen as Altered via Computer
Key point summary: The FIRST deviation from planned course involved MH370 turning to and flying through newly entered waypoints, under control of the flight management system. Ie not under manual control via the yoke.

They don't say exactly _how_ they know, which is a pity. But between the lines it seems this may have been deduced from something in the ACARS messages around that time. Read the article over a couple of times, it's kind of mixed up.

It seems the Malaysian authorities are still assuming these new waypoints were entered via the console in the cockpit. They say it would require the entry of the appropriate numeric string and commands to set new waypoints therefore the pilot or copilot must have done it. But they don't say they actually know that's how the waypoint list was edited, and can't suggest any reason why the pilot or copilot might have done so.

Also they have no idea why 'hijackers' or 'suicide pilot' would do it that way (as opposed to manually flying it), and do remark that it seems odd (to them.)

For those who've heard of Boeing's 'Uninterruptible Auto Pilot' system (also known as Homerun), there's not so much mystery. But that leads into topics forbidden here. Google them.


The other NYT article is:
20140317
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/questions-over-absence-of-cellphone-calls-from-missing-passengers.html
Questions Over Absence of Cellphone Calls From Missing Flight’s Passengers

They mean no calls while in flight, for 7 hours and something obviously wrong. Again, can't talk about that here. But some of us who followed and archived the years of retractions, rewriting and revelations regarding some other famous 'calls from planes' will understand the significance. It's kind of grimly amusing, don't you think? Seems MH370 was a rushed job, with no time to set up backstory beforehand.


There's another relevant article, published in New Scientist.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010925191746/http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/usterror/usterror.jsp?id=ns99991280
Just thought I'd mention it, since we're on the topic of autopilots and waypoints. Summary of the article: It theoretically would be possible to remotely control a plane via the autopilot, but such a thing definitely isn't implemented. Absolutely no siree.
Oh, that article was published Sept 12th, 2001. I especially like the comments gathered from several aviation experts around the world. Damned fast work, that. Prescient too, since there was no other public mention of such an idea till well over a year later.

[TerraHertz]

Well at least I have a much better insight why they still haven't found Amelia Earharts plane, if they even can't find a Boeing jumbojet in 2014 with all those satelites up there.

I think they did:
20130530
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/05/29/amelia-earhart-plane-found-sonar-images-may-have-pinpointed-wreck/?intcmp=features&cmpid=twitter_fn
Amelia Earhart's plane found? Sonar images may have pinpointed wreckage

[Kjelt]

Well at least I have a much better insight why they still haven't found Amelia Earharts plane, if they even can't find a Boeing jumbojet in 2014 with all those satelites up there.

I think they did:
20130530
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/05/29/amelia-earhart-plane-found-sonar-images-may-have-pinpointed-wreck/?intcmp=features&cmpid=twitter_fn
Amelia Earhart's plane found? Sonar images may have pinpointed wreckage

No they still have not, it is another TIGHAR attempt to raise another multi million dollar mission to that place. THey have been there already a couple of times but never found absolute proof. Now the last time they took a lot of sonardata and miracle after two months of processing they found another interesting anomaly. It prooves nothing because they had exactly the same kind of anomaly last time but didn't find anything then. So perhaps this time it is the real thing but unless they actually go there and pickup a real identifyable piece of the actual aircraft it is still speculation at most.

[TerraHertz]

No they still have not, it is another TIGHAR attempt to raise another multi million dollar mission to that place. THey have been there already a couple of times but never found absolute proof. Now the last time they took a lot of sonardata and miracle after two months of processing they found another interesting anomaly. It prooves nothing because they had exactly the same kind of anomaly last time but didn't find anything then. So perhaps this time it is the real thing but unless they actually go there and pickup a real identifyable piece of the actual aircraft it is still speculation at most.

Ah, that's a shame. That link and this: http://rense.com/general59/amelia.htm are the only two in my Amelia folder. Still not solved eh?
Let's hope MH370 doesn't turn into the same kind of permanent mystery.

[Kjelt]

[Let's hope MH370 doesn't turn into the same kind of permanent mystery.

Indeed it must be terrible for any relatives not to be able to find closure.

[mikeselectricstuff]

A couple of interesting articles in the New York Times, yesterday and today:
The other NYT article is:
20140317
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/questions-over-absence-of-cellphone-calls-from-missing-passengers.html
Questions Over Absence of Cellphone Calls From Missing Flight’s Passengers

The chances of getting a 2-way phone signal inside an aircraft at altitude, to a basestation antenna that will mostly be directed horizontally seem pretty remote, so I don't think much can be inferred from that.

[John Coloccia]

It's being reported that at least 20 of the passengers on Malaysia Air flight 370 are employees of Freescale semiconductors...

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140308-902237.html

Depending who you happened to be, it was pretty standard for our "customer" to only allow a couple of people on the same flight, and for certain people not to fly with each other.  On the one hand, it's nice to be wanted.  On the other hand, it's not something you really want to think about.  LOL.

Anyhow, I think they will find the plane in the Indian Ocean just as soon as they look in the right spot, and I'm still not 100% convinced that anything sinister took place.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure how useful the black box is going to be.  It can record flight data for the entire flight, but only 2 hours of voice.  Watch for that to change in the future, NO doubt.  I'll bet they bump the voice requirement to match the data requirement because of this flight.

[tom66]

The only reasons you got calls from the hijacked 911 planes was: the planes were low and above land, where cell signals were available. That's not available at 35000ft or over most of the ocean.

Not content with your patent theory. Why would someone go to all this trouble for some patents? And why would they remove them from the manifest ... Wouldn't they want absolute proof of their death? Hiding it, after all the trouble they've gone to seems unwise.

[Hypernova]

It's being reported that at least 20 of the passengers on Malaysia Air flight 370 are employees of Freescale semiconductors...

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20140308-902237.html

Depending who you happened to be, it was pretty standard for our "customer" to only allow a couple of people on the same flight, and for certain people not to fly with each other.  On the one hand, it's nice to be wanted.  On the other hand, it's not something you really want to think about.  LOL.

Anyhow, I think they will find the plane in the Indian Ocean just as soon as they look in the right spot, and I'm still not 100% convinced that anything sinister took place.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure how useful the black box is going to be.  It can record flight data for the entire flight, but only 2 hours of voice.  Watch for that to change in the future, NO doubt.  I'll bet they bump the voice requirement to match the data requirement because of this flight.

Preventing the ACARS from being shut down while you are at high altitude is probably up on that list too.

[tom66]

Pilots should be trusted to know what system to turn off. If there was a fault in ACARS, would they not be allowed to turn it off? I think though that a GPS datalogger should be a requirement, transmitting every minute over satellite comms.
Then you could never lose a civilian plane again.

[ivan747]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26609687

10 theories of what could have happened, explained with BBC impartiality.

[TerraHertz]

That 'twin arcs' diagram. Does anyone have any idea how that might work?
What few details I could find are here: http://everist.org/MH370/mh370_arcs_rubbish.htm
It doesn't seem technically possible to me.
Or do Inmarsats use phased arrays for transmit and receive? Even if so, it still seems unlikely.

[PedroDaGr8]

A nice article on wired:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Pretty straight forward, basically says they were aiming for Palau Langkawi.

Says all of the evidence so far pretty much can fit within normal SOP in a fire.

[Phaedrus]

A nice article on wired:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Pretty straight forward, basically says they were aiming for Palau Langkawi.

Says all of the evidence so far pretty much can fit within normal SOP in a fire.

The author thinks that the ascent to 45,000ft was, if not a radar anomaly, due to the pilot trying to gain altitude to extinguish the fire. This seems foolish, as it would be extremely hazardous to both the plane and passengers. I think it's possible instead that if the fire damaged elevator controls. This could cause a pitch up that is difficult to counteract. The plane could have risen to 45,000ft, stalled, then dived. Once in a dive the pilot would have the option of leveling off using spoilers and flaps. The plane likely would not be stable in the air however, and I can't imagine it could have flown for more than a couple dozen miles after that without crashing.

[CaptnYellowShirt]

A nice article on wired:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

Pretty straight forward, basically says they were aiming for Palau Langkawi.

Says all of the evidence so far pretty much can fit within normal SOP in a fire.

"Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. "

The rule of thumb they taught me was (a statistical) seven minutes to get the plane on the ground in the event of an uncontrollable fire. Beyond that, you're basically done for.

Its probably the worst thing that could happen to a pilot. Even a complete loss of thrust is an easier situation to deal with and its the real reason you want someone with 18k hrs on board.

[pickle9000]

@TerraHertz

Here is an article that may be of intrest

http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/se-asia/story/missing-mh370-how-satellites-communicate-plane-malaysia-airlines

It certainly sounds as if they have a method but it may have been simplified for the media. Certainly would be interesting to find out what was done.

@the fire

As for a fire, if there was one big enough to take out, or cause a pilot to disable part of the planes electronics you'd think the plane would have crashed quickly. But that's just speculation and I prefer facts.

[Monkeh]

The plane likely would not be stable in the air however, and I can't imagine it could have flown for more than a couple dozen miles after that without crashing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_Flight_123
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident

If the terrain had been more favourable, the Japan Airlines aircraft may have been able to make a landing.

Do not underestimate the abilities of a skilled flight crew. An F15 was once landed with only one wing.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Do not underestimate the abilities of a skilled flight crew.

..who will die along with everyone else if they don't get it right....

like these guys who landed with no flight controls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232