Turning lights off automatically

[WaveyDipole]

Does anyone know of a good system for turning lights (and plugs) of automatically when no on is in the room for a while?

MY daughter is often up till 3.00-4.00am and leaves lights turned on and running all night. I have seen some of these "smart bulbs" and many of the talk about connecting to the cloud, dimming and colours but not proximity detection. There used to be a system called X10 for turning things on and of, not sure about proximity detection. Can't find much on that now, so I presume it has been superceded. I don't need my lights talking to Alexa or any other AI bot but if that's the only way I might consider it....

[themadhippy]

There used to be a system called X10 for turning things on and of, not sure about proximity detection

x10 is still alive and kicking,just.,and there's even a motion detector  https://www.x10.com/products/ms16a .however whether its compatible with uk rated x10 systems is another question. theres plenty of stand alone occupency detectors to chose from, for example https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/Occupancy_Switch/index.html#Occupancy_Switch_Ceiling_Mini  One problem is if the person don't  move around enough they get plunged into darkness.

[tom66]

Don't bother with X10.  It's a ridiculous protocol allowing almost anyone in the nearby neighbourhood to control your lights, or snoop on what your lights are doing, because it injects a signal into the AC carrier. 

If you want to do this kind of thing I recommend a Zigbee smart lamp system and a wireless PIR.  These don't require an internet connection; you will need a hub but it can be isolated from the internet if you don't need the remote smart functions.

[james_s]

Yeah I had X10 stuff back in the 90s and it was cool, but I abandoned it about 15 years ago when the number of SMPSs, CFLs, and power strips with filters resulted in either so much noise or so much attenuation that it was extremely unreliable. Zigbee based stuff is the way to go now, that or WiFi. I have a mix of WiFi based stuff running Tasmota and zigbee. Philips Hue are the best bulbs I've tried but they're expensive. Ikea sells a range of zigbee bulbs, smart sockets and sensors. They have a PIR sensor although I have not tried it. Personally I integrate everything into Home Assistent running on a RPi so I have not tried the various gateways and cloud services out there but the hardware is cheap enough to give it a go and you can always fall back to Home Assistant if the company drops the stuff.

[WaveyDipole]

An acquaintance has just mentioned Gosund. Is this the same thing s as Zigbee?

Thanks BTW. I did wonder whether X10 might no longer be up to scratch. The technology is quite old now. Will have a look at Zigbee.

[DavidAlfa]

What about removing the bulb for a week so she learns some discipline?

[james_s]

I've never heard of Gosund, but Zigbee is the primary standard out there that all of the better "smart home" stuff uses. Philips Hue, Ikea Tradfri, etc are all zigbee. A lot of the cheaper stuff is WiFi connected instead and is more proprietary.

[tom66]

And the problem with the Wi-Fi stuff is it's rubbish,  we have some Tuya smart bulbs and they are quite unreliable and there is no guarantee in 10 years that the server in China will still work for them, and no way to change their API endpoint if it doesn't.  Also you have to effectively consent to that server knowing what your smart home is doing.  Hmm.

Definitely get Zigbee compatible bulbs - Ikea sell smart ones for £15 each - not much of a premium over the cheapie Amazon ones but likely to last much longer.

[Kasper]

Have your daughter pay the electric bill.  If she can't afford it then give her an 'allowance' that is about 90% of your current electric bill.

If that doesn't work, they are lightbulbs that come with PIR sensors built in.  I haven't tried them but I like the idea of avoiding networking all together.

[james_s]

With modern LED bulbs the electric bill is going to be negligible anyway. A common 60W equivalent consumes about as much power as an old style incandescent nightlight.

[Zero999]

Why is she up till stupid o'clock in the morning?

What time does the rest of the family go to bed and get up?

If everyone else goes to bed and gets up much earlier and there's no reason for he to be awake at that time, simply tell her to go to bed. In the morning, when everyone else is awake, go and wake her up. Vacuum the house and play loud music first thing in the morning. Once she learns she has to be up at a reasonable time, she'll go to bed much earlier.

[jonpaul]

IR motion sensing light switch replacement, at Amazon or  Home Depot

beware of the minimum load required and that some need a neural /ground and others are 2 wire

Jon

[rdl]

And the problem with the Wi-Fi stuff is it's rubbish,  we have some Tuya smart bulbs and they are quite unreliable and there is no guarantee in 10 years that the server in China will still work for them, and no way to change their API endpoint if it doesn't.  Also you have to effectively consent to that server knowing what your smart home is doing.  Hmm.

Man, people actually buy stuff that works this way? The world has gotten a lot stupider since I last checked.

[james_s]

Man, people actually buy stuff that works this way? The world has gotten a lot stupider since I last checked.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to know any better. To a lot of ordinary people electricity is magic in the walls that makes the lights work, they have no idea how it actually functions and don't care. The average consumer has no clue how a smart bulb works, they just set it up following the instructions on the box and if it does what it's supposed to do they're happy.

[Zero999]

How much current do Wi-Fi devices use?

I have another idea: switch of the lights at the circuit breaker before you go to bed. You could even fit a padlock to the consumer unit, so she can't unlock it. 

[tom66]

And the problem with the Wi-Fi stuff is it's rubbish,  we have some Tuya smart bulbs and they are quite unreliable and there is no guarantee in 10 years that the server in China will still work for them, and no way to change their API endpoint if it doesn't.  Also you have to effectively consent to that server knowing what your smart home is doing.  Hmm.

Man, people actually buy stuff that works this way? The world has gotten a lot stupider since I last checked.

They were a gift, but definitely a 'cursed present' if you can name one.

At least you can use them as standard white LED bulbs (cool white) if you turn them on and off, just don't switch them on and off too quick or they go into programming mode and flash every second.

Oh I'm not selling these well am I...

[james_s]

How much current do Wi-Fi devices use?

I have another idea: switch of the lights at the circuit breaker before you go to bed. You could even fit a padlock to the consumer unit, so she can't unlock it.

The better ones are well under half a watt, the worst I've seen had a draw of about 0.7W.

Shutting off power at the breaker could be hazardous if there is an emergency and you need light to see what you're doing. Also it may be different in some regions but here it's typical for one breaker to supply multiple rooms.

[Zero999]

How much current do Wi-Fi devices use?

I have another idea: switch of the lights at the circuit breaker before you go to bed. You could even fit a padlock to the consumer unit, so she can't unlock it.

The better ones are well under half a watt, the worst I've seen had a draw of about 0.7W.

Shutting off power at the breaker could be hazardous if there is an emergency and you need light to see what you're doing. Also it may be different in some regions but here it's typical for one breaker to supply multiple rooms.

In my house one breaker is connected to all of the upstairs lighting. I don't see how switching it off is hazardous. Power cuts do happen  and there's normally enough light in my house, even at night for me to see well enough to walk around and I've got the light on my phone, for real emergencies.

[james_s]

In my house one breaker is connected to all of the upstairs lighting. I don't see how switching it off is hazardous. Power cuts do happen  and there's normally enough light in my house, even at night for me to see well enough to walk around and I've got the light on my phone, for real emergencies.

Well yes, power cuts happen, and emergency lighting is not just for decoration. If there's a fire or an earthquake or some other need to evacuate rapidly it would be nice to have lights. Probably not the end of the world to be without but less than ideal. Also if your receptacles are on the same circuit you'd have to reset any alarm clocks that didn't have a battery backup.

[themadhippy]

Also if your receptacles are on the same circuit you'd have to reset any alarm clocks that didn't have a battery backup.

In the uk the lighting is generally on its own circuit  separate to the  sockets

[AVGresponding]

And emergency lighting isn't generally found in private residences, since there's no legal requirement for it. The kind of earthquakes we get here aren't dangerous, and power cuts are usually due to bad weather.

[nfmax]

And the problem with the Wi-Fi stuff is it's rubbish,  we have some Tuya smart bulbs and they are quite unreliable and there is no guarantee in 10 years that the server in China will still work for them, and no way to change their API endpoint if it doesn't.  Also you have to effectively consent to that server knowing what your smart home is doing.  Hmm.

Definitely get Zigbee compatible bulbs - Ikea sell smart ones for £15 each - not much of a premium over the cheapie Amazon ones but likely to last much longer.

The Shelly wifi relays are good. In UK lighting circuits, they can most easily be fitted at the ceiling rose (they need a neutral) and they will accept switched live as a control input. There is a ‘cloud’ server but there is no need to enable it if you don’t want to. You can control them using an http API, or they talk MQTT natively- this is what I use

[Halcyon]

Not to be judgmental, but I don't think this is a failure of technology (or a problem that should be fixed with technology). Sometimes, simple is better.

If she can't work out how to turn lights off when she is done in a room or before going to bed, then, perhaps another conversation needs to occur?

Certain actions have consequences. If she can't learn some basic life skills, perhaps it will cost her in actual dollars, or chores around the house? I mean why solve laziness or apathy with technology that will "do it for them"?

[themadhippy]

I mean why solve laziness or apathy with technology that will "do it for them"?

but isn't that what mankind has been doing since the invention of the wheel?

[WaveyDipole]

How much current do Wi-Fi devices use?

I have another idea: switch of the lights at the circuit breaker before you go to bed. You could even fit a padlock to the consumer unit, so she can't unlock it.

That made me smile and funnily enough I had wondered whether the continuous trickle current might outweigh the cost benefit of having such device on ligting, much the same way that we are advised to unplug the TV and not have it on standby?

I've never heard of Gosund, but Zigbee is the primary standard out there that all of the better "smart home" stuff uses. Philips Hue, Ikea Tradfri, etc are all zigbee. A lot of the cheaper stuff is WiFi connected instead and is more proprietary.

That is interesting. I researched Zigbee and it would appear that it uses the same part of the 2.4GHz band as WiFi and is said to interfere with it unless carefully set up. On the other hand, reliability is an important consideration as well. As it happens, a friend of mine has some home automation and has been complaining about the WiFi "freezing". They even had a Virgin Media engineer out to investigate and they found nothing. I would have to investigate further, but this might have just provided me with one possible explanation.

How much current do Wi-Fi devices use?

I have another idea: switch of the lights at the circuit breaker before you go to bed. You could even fit a padlock to the consumer unit, so she can't unlock it.

Thanks. Will check out Shelly.

Not to be judgmental, but I don't think this is a failure of technology (or a problem that should be fixed with technology). Sometimes, simple is better.

If she can't work out how to turn lights off when she is done in a room or before going to bed, then, perhaps another conversation needs to occur?

Certain actions have consequences. If she can't learn some basic life skills, perhaps it will cost her in actual dollars, or chores around the house? I mean why solve laziness or apathy with technology that will "do it for them"?

Its a fair point and we had numerous "conversations". I agree that technology is perhaps not the answer here. Just exploring all possibilities.