Thoughts on Ben Heck?

[German_EE]

"But, guys that don't have a drink ever, I don't trust.  Something shady going on there."

I never touch the stuff, but in my case there's a dead simple reason, I don't like the taste. Other folk drinking doesn't bother me which means that on a night out I'm probably the designated driver but I'm quite capable of having a fun night out whilst drinking lemonade or coke. I also get discounted auto insurance and medical insurance after signing a statement saying that I don't drink, that REALLY makes a difference and leaves me more money to spend on the fun things in life like ham radio gear.

[EEVblog]

I would love to see Mr. Jones drink a beer or three and see how he copes.

Did I miss something? 

[EEVblog]

"But, guys that don't have a drink ever, I don't trust.  Something shady going on there."
I never touch the stuff, but in my case there's a dead simple reason, I don't like the taste.

Same here.
It's an acquired taste I never acquired.
What's this got to be with Ben Heck though? 

[XOIIO]

Only alcohol I've ever had was a sip of wine when I was a kid, I've had no reason to drink, I don't go out and socialize, I'm broke most of the time, but I just don't see the point, there are things I could spend my money on that would be way more enjoyable, and would last way longer, like video games, or something that actually serves a practical purpose.

Granted there's also the possibility that it might just finally let me lose control of my depression and I'll slice my own neck open, I don't know how it would affect me, but the main thing is I just don't see a point.

[GreyWoolfe]

To those who never acquired a taste for alcohol, be glad you didn't.  I spent a half a dozen years in my misspent youth occasionally abusing the spirits as a binge drinker and then spent another 10 as an occasional light drinker.  All I have to show for it is 20% cirrhosis of the liver, causing portal hypertension, an enlarged spleen and reduced kidney function due to recently diagnosed type 2 diabetes and drinking is not a smart thing to do.  Thankfully, SWMBO has a drink very rarely and not at home, so the temptation isn't there.  The really sad thing is that you don't buy booze, you only rent it awhile.

[SeanB]

Most things are fine in moderation, including drinking. Sadly most people will be fine with the occasional drink, but there are certain people who are not. Best not to see if you fit into that second category too much.

I do not drink now, but used to. I still buy wine, but either for friends who drink or to cook with.

there is a saying locally that does not translate well into English, but the Dutch and Belgium readers will understand it perfectly well. Ek drink nie, ek rook nie, ek steek nie.....my neus in ander mense se sake nie.

[NiHaoMike]

To those who never acquired a taste for alcohol, be glad you didn't.  I spent a half a dozen years in my misspent youth occasionally abusing the spirits as a binge drinker and then spent another 10 as an occasional light drinker.  All I have to show for it is 20% cirrhosis of the liver, causing portal hypertension, an enlarged spleen and reduced kidney function due to recently diagnosed type 2 diabetes and drinking is not a smart thing to do.  Thankfully, SWMBO has a drink very rarely and not at home, so the temptation isn't there.  The really sad thing is that you don't buy booze, you only rent it awhile.

Or more like pay a little now, pay a lot later. That also applies to tobacco and other drugs as well as stuff like soft drinks and other junk food.

I tried a little wine once, didn't like the taste. And just read the MSDS on ethanol...

[jancumps]

...
there is a saying locally that does not translate well into English, but the Dutch and Belgium readers will understand it perfectly well. Ek drink nie, ek rook nie, ek steek nie.....my neus in ander mense se sake nie.

Yep, I understand it

[JoeN]

So that's what you guys do when watching a Jeri Ellsworth or Lady Ada video?

No for them, yes for Becky Stern (adafruit) when she was still making vids there.   

[GK]

“Son, never trust a man who doesn’t drink because he’s probably a self-righteous sort, a man who thinks he knows right from wrong all the time. Some of them are good men, but in the name of goodness, they cause most of the suffering in the world. They’re the judges, the meddlers. And, son, never trust a man who drinks but refuses to get drunk. They’re usually afraid of something deep down inside, either that they’re a coward or a fool or mean and violent. You can’t trust a man who’s afraid of himself. But sometimes, son, you can trust a man who occasionally kneels before a toilet. The chances are that he is learning something about humility and his natural human foolishness, about how to survive himself. It’s damned hard for a man to take himself too seriously when he’s heaving his guts into a dirty toilet bowl.”

That hyperbole reads like the insecure self-justification of a drunkard who has already pickled two-thirds of his brain.

[CJay]

Just curious what real world engineers (and the EEVblog community) think of Ben Heck.  Having spoken with a few I know online, they seem to lean towards disliking him for not really displaying much work, doing a lot of things off camera, and basically taking the spotlight away from others who they feel deserve more recognition.

  I'm indifferent as I don't watch him.  I just remember him for his "portable" PS3/Xbox 360, haven't kept up with anything else he's done, but saw him on some youtube links after watching Dave's videos.  Curious how others feel is all.  Thoughts?

Watchyed a few videos, I'm of a similar opinion to you, I find my youtube kicks elsewhere and far more in depth.

I think he's ok for hooking n00bs into the hobby/profession but they'll soon be over him.

[JoeN]

Yep, and that's why very few youtube channels, regardless of how good they might be, or how well produced, would ultimately not make the cut on mainstream TV.

I was just at the auto shop having a belt replaced and saw this show for the first time on a TV tuned for the pickup-truck crowd:

http://www.diynetwork.com/shows/the-treehouse-guys

This is a well produced show for a very niche subject.  I am not sure what "would ultimately not make the cut on mainstream TV" anymore if you count some of these cable channels.  Maybe Ben Heck could make it.

[Howardlong]

Just curious what real world engineers (and the EEVblog community) think of Ben Heck.  Having spoken with a few I know online, they seem to lean towards disliking him for not really displaying much work, doing a lot of things off camera, and basically taking the spotlight away from others who they feel deserve more recognition.

  I'm indifferent as I don't watch him.  I just remember him for his "portable" PS3/Xbox 360, haven't kept up with anything else he's done, but saw him on some youtube links after watching Dave's videos.  Curious how others feel is all.  Thoughts?

Watchyed a few videos, I'm of a similar opinion to you, I find my youtube kicks elsewhere and far more in depth.

I think he's ok for hooking n00bs into the hobby/profession but they'll soon be over him.

1) Clearly he's an accomplished, largely self-taught individual, with cross-discipline skills. That I like.

2) But then I question how much he does know when I see him tryng to probe an LVDS LCD.

3) I don't know what value the other individuals on camera offer that he can't.

4) There is so much glossing over stuff that I don't learn anything, I'm left to question if he really does know how to configure up an FPGA project by himself after all.

5) I don't think it's easy, what he's trying to achieve, given the direction his paymasters will be demanding. The question is, do his paymasters have a clue what the audience want, if they are to gain and keep subscribers?

6) No, I don't subscribe to his channel, because I never learn anything.

[EEVblog]

5) I don't think it's easy, what he's trying to achieve, given the direction his paymasters will be demanding. The question is, do his paymasters have a clue what the audience want, if they are to gain and keep subscribers?

Element 14 marketing wanted to jump on the video channel bandwagon and had a huge budget to do it with. They wanted a huge flagship channel for their (then and still) crap Element 14 community.
They approached all the bloggers (me included) to produce content for their silly community system. All the smart players said no or quickly dropped out when they saw they got a handful of views for posts, but Ben (who is smart) did some deal that got him a full time gig out of it. So he got to do what he loved and the budget to do it with, good on him. How that actually went down I don't know.
Element 14 didn't care that console modding type stuff was not anything close to their core customer base, that didn't matter to them. If it had a hint of electronics that was good enough so that marketing could go "tick" on their social media KPI and have their own platform to insert ads into.

At the time Element 14 were paying HUGE money to a production company to edit each video, you'd be shocked at how much. Ben was getting a fraction of that.  I think that's changed now and Ben (or someone who works for him?) does the editing?

The big winner out of this is Ben, but it would be interesting to know who owns the rights to "The Ben Heck Show" name and youtube channel? I hope it's Ben.

[bitwelder]

Element 14 didn't care that console modding type stuff was not anything close to their core customer base, that didn't matter to them. If it had a hint of electronics that was good enough so that marketing could go "tick" on their social media KPI and have their own platform to insert ads into.

One thing that always strikes me as 'odd' is how the E14 ads that are placed in the middle of the show episodes look totally out of place (target wise) compared to the average show contents. Yet with little effort they could catch much more value than using the whole show only to invite typical hobbyists/modders to join their community website.

[george graves]

At the time Element 14 were paying HUGE money to a production company to edit each video, you'd be shocked at how much.

Since the quality, format, and lengths of the videos remained the same, and not much has changed - not sure if that is true. If that "production company" was doing anything, it wasn't much. Maybe there was a middle man producer in there sucking up some dough.

Coming from the video production world, as I have, I've been the director for $25k projects for 15 mins of a talking heads, multiple cams, and good audio - it's not out of line at all.  But with that, you get a lot more then just a point-and-shoot video.

Dave, the saying you're looking for is "Content is King" - so if you can make that content with a sub $2k camera and a workbench, then you're golden.  Spending 20k a video won't help you much - if at all.  But on the other hand, say you want to make a documentary that is 15 mins long, and you need to hire a company to do it, yea, $25k is the staring point.

With that said, there is a place for well produced videos of (mechanical and electrical) engineering.  No one has tapped that market yet. Mythbusters was kinda close.  "Prototype This", got even closer.

[EEVblog]

At the time Element 14 were paying HUGE money to a production company to edit each video, you'd be shocked at how much.

Since the quality, format, and lengths of the videos remained the same, and not much has changed - not sure if that is true.

Well I don't know for sure but I was told by someone directly involved in it. This was right back at the start.

If that "production company" was doing anything, it wasn't much. Maybe there was a middle man producer in there sucking up some dough.

Likely. But I heard it was farmed out to an editing/production company. I was told it was basically editing, I don't know about "production".

Dave, the saying you're looking for is "Content is King"

Yes, I've said that countless times.

But on the other hand, say you want to make a documentary that is 15 mins long, and you need to hire a company to do it, yea, $25k is the staring point.

Sure, but E14 didn't have have to spend $20k an episode for The Ben Heck Show. It would have worked just as well on a fraction of that.
But that's how big companies work, the marketing team probably got a quote from a production company and management didn't blink at $20k an episode when they were pouring millions and millions into getting their new "community" site up and running. TBHS was the flagship driver on that new site, they would have spent anything.

With that said, there is a place for well produced videos of (mechanical and electrical) engineering.  No one has tapped that market yet.

Yes they have:
https://www.youtube.com/user/engineerguyvideo

Mythbusters was kinda close.  "Prototype This", got even closer.

And Joe Grand thought the experience was so horrible he wouldn't do it again and doesn't recommend that anyone else do either IIRC.
Engineering is not really compatible with TV production schedules.
http://www.theamphour.com/the-amp-hour-60-pancyclopaedic-prototyping-polymath/

[Kjelt]

With that said, there is a place for well produced videos of (mechanical and electrical) engineering.  No one has tapped that market yet. Mythbusters was kinda close.  "Prototype This", got even closer.

It is not a huge market. They have tried numerous times to put mechanical engineering shows on prime tv and each and every time they scratched the engineering and made some nonsense soap story out of it. Good example is for instance American Restorations, first season was excellent they showed what work went into restoring the items in detail, then it all was about the people their social (fake) interactions, the boobs of the wife etc. It just shows that the majority of people are not interested in craftmanship and just want stupid entertainment.
So glad there are forums with specialist content and interaction, i never watch tv anymore, it is GIGO.

[edy]

I like Ben Heck! He is not an engineer, but he does some interesting builds which help give you ideas. But the videos are by no means step-by-step tutorials. I consider it fun, casual, non-technical inspirational content meant to get people making stuff, and if they happen to buy the parts they need from Element 14, so be it. All in all, he has a nice channel but it is Apples to Oranges comparison with EEVBlog and other channels. Nice to have some variety.

[Tepe]

...
there is a saying locally that does not translate well into English, but the Dutch and Belgium readers will understand it perfectly well. Ek drink nie, ek rook nie, ek steek nie.....my neus in ander mense se sake nie.

Yep, I understand it

To my mild surprise: So do I

[george graves]

Yes they have:
https://www.youtube.com/user/engineerguyvideo

No he hasn't.  I love his videos, but they are still marketed to the "reddit" and "facebook" crowd. Easy to understand, and easily digestible by what I consider the gold standard, my mother.  If my mother can follow it, it's watered down.

"Prototype This" was interesting and worth a mention (despite Joe Grand's bad experience with a production company - no surprise there) in that at least they would put all their notes and source code online. Never seen that before for a national televised TV show.

There is room for a well produced engineering videos WITH details IMHO.

And since were posting examples of that.  Two come to mind.

Secret Life Of Machines


And in the US at least, we had on PBS (our version of the BBC) Physics lectures (from MIT?) that were animated and shown during the day.  Can't find a link, but they were awesome.

[CJay]

Yes they have:
https://www.youtube.com/user/engineerguyvideo

Secret Life Of Machines


And in the US at least, we had on PBS (our version of the BBC) Physics lectures (from MIT?) that were animated and shown during the day.  Can't find a link, but they were awesome.

And I'll repeat it, Tim Hunkin of Secret Life of Machines fame is a great guy, he's still making all sorts of weird and wonderful machinery plus, this is the great bit, he'[s made his Secret Life of Machines series available for download for free.

http://www.timhunkin.com/41_slom1.htm

[mathsquid]

Secret Life Of Machines

And in the US at least, we had on PBS (our version of the BBC) Physics lectures (from MIT?) that were animated and shown during the day.  Can't find a link, but they were awesome.

I love both of those shows. I believe that the physics lectures you're thinking of were https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mechanical_Universe, which was done at Cal Tech. Occasionally you can find Mechanical Universe on youtube, but it never lasts long before it's taken down.

Between those two shows and Mr. Wizard's World, I learned a LOT of what I know about science.

[EEVblog]

Yes they have:
https://www.youtube.com/user/engineerguyvideo

No he hasn't. 

Yes he has. You said well no one was doing well produced engineering videos, his videos are very well produced.
Doesn't matter that his intended market is the 7 minute attention span internet sweet spot, he nailed it and he's been very successful at it.
In fact his latest Faraday lecture series are 20 minutes videos, so he's doing longer ones now too.
His production style and delivery etc could easily be expanded to a regular half hour TV time slot length, without any changes at all, just with more detail inlcuded.
He's deliberately keeping them short for the intended internet audience.

The problem will always be ones of broad appeal vs detail. I think it's likely impossible to include a lot of detail and grow a large mainstream public audience. They aren't just mutually exclusive, but higher technical detail has a well known and measurable affect on mainstream appeal. That's why no one's doing it.

[Kevman]

Did anyone catch the latest episode?



It tears down the Super Nintendo CD prototype, and contains a Dave Jones reference a few minutes in. 

I think its by the guy who owns the SNES CD, but I can't really tell for sure.