This doesn't make sense - NYT article about a solar installation in the US

[james_s]

In terms of the HVAC, the utility could look at the demand on the revenue meter and expect a reduction from not running the compressor.  If they didn't see the reduction, they could make a pretty good guess.

As to bypassing the revenue meter:  The utility has a lot of comparative information.  If you 3,000 sf house is using demonstrably less energy than your next door neighbors 3000 sf house, they might start to suspect something.

A lot of people have used inductive coupling from overhead HV lines and that too is theft:

https://www.industrytap.com/electromagnetic-harvesters-free-lunch-or-theft/1805

There's nothing new here, every possible scheme has been tried and detected.  The utilities employ some pretty bright folks.

The energy consumed by my air conditioning is absolutely dwarfed by what the hot tub uses if I fire that up, it doubles my electric bill. A day of air conditioning on a moderately hot day is roughly equivalent to running two loads of laundry through the dryer. I really don't think there would be a useful amount of data in the overall consumption to make an accusation. According to the comparison graph on my bill, my average electricity consumption is dramatically less than most of my neighbors, unless I'm running the hot tub, which I do sporadically depending on the weather and how busy I am.

I would argue that inductive coupling from overhead lines is not theft. If it is, then the electromagnetic radiation is trespassing on my property. If somebody doesn't want me to utilize something that's in the air, keep it off of my property. I apply the same logic to radio waves, if someone doesn't want me receiving them and listening, don't transmit them near me.

[rstofer]

I would argue that inductive coupling from overhead lines is not theft. If it is, then the electromagnetic radiation is trespassing on my property. If somebody doesn't want me to utilize something that's in the air, keep it off of my property. I apply the same logic to radio waves, if someone doesn't want me receiving them and listening, don't transmit them near me.

You can make that argument, and I am reasonably sure somebody has, but it will come down to them being a public utility and your rights are out the window.  Think 'eminent domain'...  Sure, only a government agency can invoke it but they can turn it over to whomever they wish - like a public utility.

From experience, I can tell you that you don't want to lay wire on the ground under a 115 kV bus works.  No, I didn't get hammered but I could see the effect with a non-contact voltage detector.

I don't think inductive coupling will be effective at low residential voltages but I can't say I ever tried it.

I once had a gas fired hot tub and it could do some serious damage to the utility bill.

[Bud]

... If somebody doesn't want me to utilize something that's in the air, keep it off of my property. I apply the same logic to radio waves, if someone doesn't want me receiving them and listening, don't transmit them near me.

You can make that argument, and I am reasonably sure somebody has

Yes i remember an incident where an iPad was stolen and the thief put it in his garage. The owner was able to track down the location using Find my iPad feature , brought the police with them and activated the alarm sound on the iPad over the air to demonstrate to the police that the device was on the property. They busted the thief who then brought trespassing charges in defence that air waves to activate the alarm tresspassed his property. The judge threw that argument out.

[james_s]

Well that thieve's argument is ridiculous. Obviously it's not feasible to keep radio waves off of a person's property, my only argument there is that if the radio waves are there, I'm within my rights to receive them and listen to the contents. Back in the days of analog cellular phones the cellular companies managed to lobby through a law making it illegal to receive the un-encrypted analog transmissions. All scanners sold were required to have those frequencies locked out but it was usually not hard to unlock them. I have yet to ever see a Radio Shack Pro-2004/2005/2006 scanner that didn't have the cellular mod done. It's ridiculous to make it illegal to receive a signal that is freely in the air.

[Marco]

Where am I going to store this water?

Isn't everything big over there? American airconditioner heatpumps seem to be the size of an IBC to begin with. Though I agree, if you can't just hide an insulated IBC in a huge yard it will bring considerable costs to bury it. Heatpumps with significant storage make more sense for new buildings and renovations.

[james_s]

Isn't everything big over there? American airconditioner heatpumps seem to be the size of an IBC to begin with. Though I agree, if you can't just hide an insulated IBC in a huge yard it will bring considerable costs to bury it. Heatpumps with significant storage make more sense for new buildings and renovations.

They never used to be, but efficiency mandates combined with the move to R410a refrigerant resulted in MUCH larger units. Traditionally they get the efficiency up by increasing the ratio of coil size to compressor capacity, so a modern 2 ton condensing unit is often bigger than say a 30 year old 4 ton unit. Only recently they've started using things like inverter driven compressors to get the size down, and the Japanese tend to make those narrow units that sit vertically against a wall, those are getting somewhat more common here. Even the biggest units are still smaller than a huge water tank though.

[NiHaoMike]

In terms of the HVAC, the utility could look at the demand on the revenue meter and expect a reduction from not running the compressor.  If they didn't see the reduction, they could make a pretty good guess.

And what if you wired it to turn off some other large load like a pool pump, dryer, or water heater? (That's assuming there isn't the option to simply get the switch installed on that device in the first place.)

[james_s]

And what if you wired it to turn off some other large load like a pool pump, dryer, or water heater? (That's assuming there isn't the option to simply get the switch installed on that device in the first place.)

Well it would accomplish the same goal wouldn't it? Turning off a large load during times of high demand reduces the demand, doesn't matter whether it's the AC compressor or the clothes dryer.

[Bassman59]

Where am I going to store this water?

Isn't everything big over there? American airconditioner heatpumps seem to be the size of an IBC to begin with. Though I agree, if you can't just hide an insulated IBC in a huge yard it will bring considerable costs to bury it. Heatpumps with significant storage make more sense for new buildings and renovations.

OK, some details. I live in Tucson, so water is at a premium here.

And yes, considerable costs will be incurred to dig out the yard and install a tank large enough for this energy-storage purchase. (I do want to install an above-ground rain-water harvesting system.)

Also, define "big." The non-wealthy in this country don't have super large yards. I know I don't have a large yard.

[Marco]

OK, some details. I live in Tucson, so water is at a premium here.

That's still only a couple bucks of water for the IBC. Getting it filled with RO water is probably the same cost in Tucson as anywhere else.