The big ebay LED floodlight scam.

[cimmo]

insisting on a Mercedes at a Chevy price is probably irrational, or at least unrealistic.

If the vendor tells me it is a Mercedes and it isn't (regardless of the price) then he is committing fraud.

There are countless people in this world who will tell you whatever you want to hear if it helps them get a sale.
Falling for it and blaming the seller is silly.

I see. So you too support unethical and even illegal behaviour - FRAUD, as long as it benefits the vendor.
OK. Got it.

[cimmo]

Exactly C666

I once had someone tell me to, 'Take it for  a spin!  It handles like a Ferrari'...but, it was a 10 speed bike!

"like a Ferrari" is a metaphor. It is NOT a direct claim of provenance.
But what if he made up/acquired some Ferrari badges and stuck them on, claiming it actually WAS a Ferrari bike?

Too outrageous? Did you know that Porsche branded bicycles exist? (Yes, THAT Porsche.)

In this case there has been deliberate FRAUD here labeling an item with characteristics it does not have. On top of the lies about the power ratings these items also have ILLEGAL grounding methods (none).

I cannot understand why these fraudulent and potentially FATAL business practices are being defended - AT ALL. Even if they are "cheap".
 

[Falcon69]

I agree, but importing items into a country with laws that regulate this stuff, you think customs is going to open a package, do a tear down, and see if it complies with local/city/state/country codes?  There's not anyway of stopping this stuff.

I am glad the original poster posted this, made me think about the ones I have bought and glad I have not hooked them up yet.  I will be tearing mine down and fixing what needs to be fixed inside, if I can. 

One thing I need to do with mine, is remove and extend the sensors for the remote, as these lights go underneath a bridge and shines down and out over a pond.  No way to get the remote to activate the light if the sensor is not in line of site of those IR remotes.

Mine are 12 volt, so there is no ballast inside, or shouldn't be.  I hope, electronically end electrically, everything is safe and the most I can expect to see is a crappy ground connection like the OP discovered. At least the casing is aluminum.  A self tapping screw will solve that problem.

[cimmo]

"like a Ferrari" is a metaphor. It is NOT a direct claim of provenance.

Actually "It handles like a Ferrari" is a simile.   

Fair cop.

[SeanB]

I actually have some lamps that are rated not in Watts, lumens or other metrics but in Candlepowers. Ok they are older than me by a good few decades, having been made pre WWII in Germany. I remember looking at the stock card they had and the last incoming was in 1937. I think the 16 and 32 candlepower ratings are correct, they are a nice yellow light.

[PlainName]

There's not anyway of stopping this stuff.

Particularly since you, and the OP, are the importers. If there is any shit about, it will hit your fan as the responsible person.

[PlainName]

If an ordinary person buys one of these lamps from overseas, say via Ebay, or at a local store they don't become responsible for the misrepresentation

You are conflating two different things, or possibly I wasn't clear.

Whether the kit works as advertised is not the issue - you, as the buyer, take that up with whoever sold you the stuff. Depending on middlemen, you could normally be dealing with a vendor, importer or manufacturer, but the that's between you and them.

However, as the person bringing the stuff into the country, you are the importer. Your remedy for faults is still to got to whoever sold it to you (which would be the Chinese manufacturer). However, if the kit is dangerous or forbidden (maybe it is a phone blocker, or DIY tazer or similar, or burns down next doors house when your connect it to the mains) then whoever imported that kit gets the rocket up their arse from TPTB. And as the importer that is you. Your remedy is still to go after whoever sold it to you, but TPTB@your_country won't give a toss because it's you that brought it into their jurisdiction.

In the FTDI thread does the responsibility lie with the end user or with those who sold fake chips?

Different issue complicated by end user licensing of software. The chips may or may not be fake (the only fake thing about them is the logo, and without that they would be functional equivalents that are not fakes). However, the user of the software warrants that he won't use it other then with FTDI chips, so however he got to be using the chips isn't relevant.

Let's make it simpler: Fluke and the yellow cases. The end user can't be nicked for buying or using those, and the manufacturer similarly can't be nicked for making them (unless Fluke bring an action against them in China). It's the importer that carries the can. That is, whoever is responsible for bringing them into the country, and that is Sparkfun in this case. No argument there, right?

OK, let's suppose that you get fed up of Sparkfun not supplying these yellow-cased instruments any more and decide to buy one direct from the manufacturer (presumably via Ebay). Now you are the importer and Fluke would be justified in coming after you, forcing you to destroy the kit and possibly billing you for their time in chasing you. You are on just as bad a legal footing as Sparkfun was.

[cimmo]

How is someone going to know it's not as advertisied without ripping it apart? If someone on EBAY is saying they are 20W LED's you assume they are 20W LED's particularly if the seller has mainly positive feedback. That being said if someone is selling 20W LED's in a full enclosure with a driver for 5 bucks that should set alarm bells off.

Cheapest item I can find that is visually identical to 20w units the OP bought is around $23 AUD (~20USD).

I do not consider this price to be ridiculously low enough to warrant 'setting alarm bells off'.
But remember this, you and I might know the true value of legitimate components, but is the average DIY'er going to know what a 'reasonable' price is?

This price point has been carefully chosen by the vendors. Just cheap enough to undercut any real 20w units but not so low as to set off those alarm bells. This also maximises their profits, of course and apparently for many people, that's all that matters.
 

[cimmo]

However, as the person bringing the stuff into the country, you are the importer. ..... then whoever imported that kit gets the rocket up their arse from TPTB. And as the importer that is you.

My understanding (from watching BigClive's videos and from what was written in the first post of this thread) is that these dodgy units were bought from a UK based eBay seller and shipped from within the UK.

BigClive did NOT directly import them. 

[Hardcorefs]

It is not the Wattage you need to be worrying about, many Chinese LED's have CRAP organic filters on the dies and as a result produce massive amounts of IR or UV. ( depending on their tech.)
Which then makes you go blind……  another reason to NEVER use a microscope light with LED's or TH lamps…….

Commonly called 'Why do I have Itchy eyes or see spots after using Chinese made LED's'

[PlainName]

BigClive did NOT directly import them

OK, that's fair enough. My bad 

[David_AVD]

In the age of the Internet, does the term "importing" really have the same meaning?  In reality you're just buying a retail item off someone who is in another country.

[Kjelt]

The company in the UK ithat sells it, is resposible that the product complies with the local safety laws eg it is tested for instance with TUV or KemaKeur. If it is not, than that same company vouches that it does comply and if for instance there is a lethal accident, that company may become responsible depending on the found circumstances .

[PlainName]

In the age of the Internet

The internet doesn't change laws or traditions, it just makes it easier to break them.

[dannyf]

that company may become responsible depending on the found circumstances .

But what does that do for you, in the case where the seller is a fly-by-night, thinly capitalized "company" that has no financial resources even if you win against it legally?

Some people constantly wonder why stuff is so expensive off the internet. Well, that's why.

[Kjelt]

But what does that do for you, in the case where the seller is a fly-by-night, thinly capitalized "company" that has no financial resources even if you win against it legally?

Nothing..... the buyer is dead on the floor next to the malfunctioning device and his ghost is wondering if it had been wiser to buy a better device and the next of kin can forget about seeing a penny.

[dannyf]

Absolutely.

That's the high cost of low prices that few cheapskates are wise enough to consider.

[westfw]

many Chinese LED's have CRAP organic filters on the dies and as a result produce massive amounts of IR or UV.

Reference?  That would be a neat trick, given the technology involved.
(and: where can I buy some chinese LEDs that emit "massive amounts of UV"?  That would be great!)

[David_AVD]

In the age of the Internet

The internet doesn't change laws or traditions, it just makes it easier to break them.

It's changed the way we purchase goods to a significant degree with geography playing a smaller role.  The global marketplace has been there for a long time, but it's now widely accessible.

The traditional chain of manufacturer -> origin country distributor -> destination country distributor -> retailer -> end user has been shortened by a few steps in a lot of cases.

Sure it doesn't change the regulatory laws, but now the end user is buying directly from another country.  The end user often doesn't know about any of the regulations and the seller often doesn't care.

[Hardcorefs]

many Chinese LED's have CRAP organic filters on the dies and as a result produce massive amounts of IR or UV.

Reference?  That would be a neat trick, given the technology involved.
(and: where can I buy some chinese LEDs that emit "massive amounts of UV"?  That would be great!)

And you think that UV LED's only end up in the UV LED section of the market?

[PlainName]

The end user often doesn't know about any of the regulations

That was exactly my point, and ignorance is not a defense.

[TMM]

This clearly is "Not as described" case.
Include a photo of the watt meter. And also include one of the 10 Watt power supply. Add a comment about it not complying to UK electric codes, as a bonding screw (or equivalent) is required for earthing, hot melt is not an approved alternative.

And achieve what? Having to send it back to china with postage costing almost as much as the item?

The seller probably has no idea that they aren't to spec.

[westfw]

And you think that UV LED's only end up in the UV LED section of the market?

In fact, yes I do.  Given that actual UV LEDs (lambda < 390nm) command quite a  significant price premium over "blue", with the premium going up as lambda goes down, anyone that comes into a bunch of UV emitters would be better off selling them as UV lights...  (10W UV floodlights sell for 2-3x the price for 10W "white" floodlights on eBay, for instance.)

I'm willing to be proven wrong, by a reference.

[Zero999]

It is not the Wattage you need to be worrying about, many Chinese LED's have CRAP organic filters on the dies and as a result produce massive amounts of IR or UV. ( depending on their tech.)
Which then makes you go blind……  another reason to NEVER use a microscope light with LED's or TH lamps…….

Commonly called 'Why do I have Itchy eyes or see spots after using Chinese made LED's'

LEDs don't normally produce much UV or IR.

White LEDs are made with blue LEDs and a phosphor is used to emit the longer wavelengths.  A small amount of light will probably be UV but not much. I suppose it's possible to build white LEDs with UV LEDs and a phosphor but it's not the most common way of doing it.

[Kjelt]

I'm looking at buying some of these. I'll use Amazon though, because if they are fake or not up to spec Amazon enforce UK law regarding returns and refunds etc.

Catch-22: How are you going to proof it is not up to spec without opening it and thereby forfitting any guarantee?