TESLA finally launches a truck/semi ? AND some solarpower in PUERTO RICO.

[mtdoc]

These sorts of high density housing charging accessibility issues are why eventually some EVs with a  quick swap-able battery pack would  need to be developed if EVs were ever to fully replace ICE autos.  Either that or some massive charging infrastructure build out that puts a charger at every spot on the street like parking meters.

More likely IMHO, is that EVs will become more and more common but never completely replace all ICE cars. The eventual resource limited reality will be less “happy motoring” in general. Public transport, walking, bicycling, or (gasp) even horses are possible replacements. Suburbia will need to shrink and may even disappear.... How painfull that transition is over the coming decades depends on how intelligently  (or not) our political and social structures can adapt to the physically imposed limits.

[tszaboo]

Of course it will. Owning a car will be one of those things for weird people. With self driving cars, the number of necessary cars will be reduced. The resources they consume also. Accidents will rarely happen, therefore instead of repairing stuff, we can spend it on useful projects. We are talking about 3-5+% of total GDP lost because we are not using self driving cars. Imagine the possibilities. Going to work a lot faster, because less cars on the road. Never worrying about maintenance or parking space. And the world suddenly won't look like a parking garage.
I think in 10-15 years, owning a car will be the exception.

[Simon]

The same when you Park on an Company Parking lot who should pay the Bill for the Power when you recharge it there?
People got fired for recharching there Mobile Phone at Work.

You for real? almost more stupid an objection than he guy that cant be assed to plug it in........

[bd139]

Company should pay for it just as they should pay mileage as well.

[fubar.gr]

For that matter, I wonder how come the idea of an EV with a generator trailer to convert it into a plug in hybrid hasn't taken off.

Because trailers mess up the car's handling. Then, the car won't fit most parking spaces, and even if you find a suitable one, parking with a trailer attached is not that easy. Plus, trailers look ugly.

[Fungus]

For that matter, I wonder how come the idea of an EV with a generator trailer to convert it into a plug in hybrid hasn't taken off.

Because trailers mess up the car's handling. Then, the car won't fit most parking spaces, and even if you find a suitable one, parking with a trailer attached is not that easy. Plus, trailers look ugly.

The Tesla trailer would totally look like this, right? 

[woody]

Absolutely. But with a bigger connector than this 

[MT]

I've actually looked this up.

You obviously had not.

Your incentives are basically:
Not paying tax, not paying fees.

Nope, just point out the facts regular Norwegians think the subsidizing is unfair game.

This is like complaining, that EV drivers are not getting kicked in the back, like other drivers. I actually have
no problem with this. Taxes were reduced. Taxes, that are for the working people. How is this a bad thing?

Obviously you want to read in what you want to see not what said, so nope tax reductions obviously not for the
working class of Norwegians but i understand you as millionaire dont have problems with this.

Why do you think the gov is about to implement a tax named Tesla? Tesla tax! There is no BMW or Ford tax!

For example a  Volvo V60 T3 Kinetic is 26300eu inc tax in sweden, in Norway it's suddenly 40380eu!
Most sold cars 2017 in Noway is BMWi3 and Volkswagen Passat GTE. In Oslo its forbidden to drive diesels.

[MT]

How about other Electric Cars? Is the benefit for all or just for Tesla?

According to Automotive Industry Data (AID) 2016 Tesla is subbed by gov, i had thought it was for all EV's but apparently not.(disclaimer for 2017). NANDblog talks about Tesla, then example given for Tesla S. Tesla S is bought
by those who have 3 times the salary as blue collar working class Norwegian (according to their own research)
so yes its political based subsidizing of the rich on the behalf of the poor tax payers.(seriously, there are no such thing as poor Norwegian, haha! lamest joke since the Norwegian oil boom). Anyho for 2016, 2billion NOK was lost based on sales tax only, count in the rest and you see how unfair the whole scheme is, all in the name of making Musk rich.
That's the point Musk would not sell a single car in Norway unles he was subsidized.

Norwegian buss drivers have for some time complain to community council their buss lanes is clogged up with Tesla cars!

[Fungus]

According to Automotive Industry Data (AID) 2016 Tesla is subbed by gov, i had thought it was for all EV's but apparently not.(disclaimer for 2017).

Everybody driving Teslas adds more international prestige to a country than buying F35s does.

It's a lot less expensive, too.

[MT]

Everybody driving Teslas adds more international prestige to a country than buying F35s does.
It's a lot less expensive, too.

Yes, and its not even electric!

[tszaboo]

NANDblog talks about Tesla

Please tell me where exacly did I say that.
All those rich millionaire people must love their Nissan Leafs and VW e-ups also.

[3roomlab]

Please tell me where exacly did I say that.
All those rich millionaire people must love their Nissan Leafs and VW e-ups also.
https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/05/Top-10-Electric-Cars-Norway.png

imiev/ion has such low uptake *sad*

[tszaboo]

Please tell me where exacly did I say that.
All those rich millionaire people must love their Nissan Leafs and VW e-ups also.
https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2017/05/Top-10-Electric-Cars-Norway.png

imiev/ion has such low uptake *sad*

It is a sad little ugly car, nobody really wants. This is the type of car you buy, because the lack of choice. And the Pegueot iOn is the same, only worse.
You get a car styled by the Japanese, built by the French. Worst of both words.

[Jeroen3]

NANDblog talks about Tesla

Please tell me where exacly did I say that.
All those rich millionaire people must love their Nissan Leafs and VW e-ups also.

No. It's because those are actually in stock.

[Zero999]

I disagree that people have to adapt.   Capitalism doesn't work that way - people will always go with what works best.

Call me a lefty loony but this isn't about the market. Unless someone figures out a way to make large quantities of biofuel, from a carbon neutral source, then electric vehicles are the way to go: we need to move away from the internal combustion engine for the sake of the planet!

If it doesn't suit your needs or that of the market: tough shit, you'll be forced down the EV route, at some point, whether you like it or not. Some European governments have introduced dates for phasing out petrol and diesel cars and it's likely to happen, at some point in the US too.

Now I support the free market. I like private companies to innovate and make lots of money for their shareholders, but I also agree with regulations to protect the environment.

[Simon]

Share holders actually seem to be the problem. you will find the most dynamic and innovative companies are those who don't have them. That is why many fear to try and innovate because they don't want any fuckups less the companies shares loose value. I think shareholders think they are more important than those actually making them money when in fact they are the least efficient part of the process. If a company is truly successful why does it need shareholders and that ongoing debt?

[Rick Law]

If share holders seem to be a problem before, they are a bigger problem now.

Bloomberg (big with stock analyst) just put out this story:

Tesla’s Newest Promises Break the Laws of Batteries
Elon Musk touted ranges and charging times that don’t compute with the current physics and economics of batteries.
By Tom Randall and John Lippert November 24, 2017

Elon Musk knows how to make promises. Even by his own standards, the promises made last week while introducing two new Tesla vehicles—the heavy-duty Semi Truck and the speedy Roadster—are monuments of envelope pushing. To deliver, according to close observers of battery technology, Tesla would have to far exceed what is currently thought possible.

(More, click on the link below)

Above quotes from article:
^{https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/tesla-s-newest-promises-break-the-laws-of-batteries}

[tszaboo]

If share holders seem to be a problem before, they are a bigger problem now.

Bloomberg (big with stock analyst) just put out this story:

Tesla’s Newest Promises Break the Laws of Batteries
Elon Musk touted ranges and charging times that don’t compute with the current physics and economics of batteries.
By Tom Randall and John Lippert November 24, 2017

Elon Musk knows how to make promises. Even by his own standards, the promises made last week while introducing two new Tesla vehicles—the heavy-duty Semi Truck and the speedy Roadster—are monuments of envelope pushing. To deliver, according to close observers of battery technology, Tesla would have to far exceed what is currently thought possible.

(More, click on the link below)

Above quotes from article:
^{https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/tesla-s-newest-promises-break-the-laws-of-batteries}

Solid state lithium is just around the corner. That is about double the capacity for given size, weight and price. It is 2-3 years away.

[Rick Law]

If share holders seem to be a problem before, they are a bigger problem now.

Bloomberg (big with stock analyst) just put out this story:

Tesla’s Newest Promises Break the Laws of Batteries
Elon Musk touted ranges and charging times that don’t compute with the current physics and economics of batteries.
By Tom Randall and John Lippert November 24, 2017

Elon Musk knows how to make promises. Even by his own standards, the promises made last week while introducing two new Tesla vehicles—the heavy-duty Semi Truck and the speedy Roadster—are monuments of envelope pushing. To deliver, according to close observers of battery technology, Tesla would have to far exceed what is currently thought possible.

(More, click on the link below)

Above quotes from article:
^{https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/tesla-s-newest-promises-break-the-laws-of-batteries}

Solid state lithium is just around the corner. That is about double the capacity for given size, weight and price. It is 2-3 years away.

2-3 years away is a life time.  They are already on deep doo-doo with their Model 3 production line problem, the article I linked to clearly shows they are loosing the heart of stock analyst.  If the stuff (battery or whatever) is as far off as 2 to 3 years, they had to manage expectation better.  They better get their ducks in a row.

[tszaboo]

2-3 years away is a life time.  They are already on deep doo-doo with their Model 3 production line problem, the article I linked to clearly shows they are loosing the heart of stock analyst.  If the stuff (battery or whatever) is as far off as 2 to 3 years, they had to manage expectation better.  They better get their ducks in a row.

Yes, with the Model 3, I dont know, why they have to reinvent the wheel. There are certain way to build cars, and they are doing their own thing, with welded aluminium and other fancy stuff. Which sounds nice, and then small repair jobs are more expensive than buying a new car from a different maker. And production is also complicated.
That is one of the reasons I'm still waiting for the electric car, and the expensive battery.
Right now, 30% of the battery price is formation and assembly. This can be reduced to almost nothing because you are creating high voltage cells with multiple electrodes inside. So imagine, that instead of the 3.7V cells, that needs to be individually balanced, filled, tested, graded - you get a 48V pack, something like the lead acid battery. Your throughput suddenly skyrockets. Also, energy requirement of the manufacturing is reduced drastically.
The way battery manufacturing formation is an extremely slow process, and it requires very large manufacturing setup. Because you need to charge and discharge the battery, individually, store it in a fireproof container, thousands at the same time, and cannot use high current, since it is not ready for that yet.
If you reduce the cost of the battery, the car becomes very very cheap. Let's take the VW e-golf, as there is regular golf also. The e-golf is 30K, regular golf is 20K. I've seen 17K as the battery price. Halve that. Suddenly you have a car, which is on-par in price with the old ICE golf. And faster, and accelerates better. And if the government rebates are still in place...

[Simon]

Not really, batteries cost 1000's the cars cost 10'000's. The battery can be 20% the price of the car.

[tszaboo]

Not really, batteries cost 1000's the cars cost 10'000's. The battery can be 20% the price of the car.

I've used an official quote for the battery pack.
But a nissan leaf 24KWH battery pack replacement costs 6500 USD + work, and that has a 24kWh battery, the golf has a 55kWh. I let you do the math.

[Simon]

Yes and how much are the cars?

I see a sion advertised as €16'000 and the battery is €4'000.

[tszaboo]

Yes and how much are the cars?

I see a sion advertised as €16'000 and the battery is €4'000.

eGolf is 30K USD, leaf is the same.
I usually dont look at EU pricing for these calculations, because they are really distorted by the ridiculous taxes, and service costs. For example, the eGolf is 40K EUR here. And you are supposed to haggle it down and buy it as a company car. What a joke.