Author Topic: Tequipment international order requirements :o  (Read 41280 times)

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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #75 on: April 28, 2013, 12:24:08 pm »
But in general, the rules a merchant must abide by - their agreement with Visa/MasterCard/AMEX/Discover is the same for a merchant in Japan or one in the USA or one in France - and that includes the rules and mechanisms that control chargebacks.
Visa/MasterCard/AMEX/Discover are as bound by the laws of the countries they operate in as everybody else. The US is but a small part of the world.

That's true, but aside from nuances (usually consumer protection stuff) this does not affect the validity of a merchant's agreement with their payment provider.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #76 on: April 28, 2013, 01:14:18 pm »
International orders require extra fraud screening, lots of extra paperwork, and a host of other issues.  So yes we have rules.  Im listening if you have ideas but what I sometimes hear is we should just process orders blindly then I would lose a lot of money for so many people unfortunately try to pass fraudulent orders off internationally.

As someone who orders quite a lot of EE stuff globaly (both personal and for business) I wonder then how your competition is able to sell internationally without such nonsense like asking for images of both CC sides, and still make money.

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We have had orders with credit card copies that come back fraud.  So yes we have to screen orders.  And yes we are always open to ideas.  Constructive ones.  I like to understand so I can evolve and grow.  In 10 years we have gone from 4 people to 48.  I am always willing to learn something new and improve.

Then one of the first things you should learn is that banking in the US is not necessarily the same as in other countries, as the US system is a bit backward in comparison with the rest of the world (which is probably one of the reasons why CC fraud is higher in the US than in most other Western countries). For example, in Europe most CC providers prohibit customers giving away scans/photo copies of your CC in their terms & regulations (the stuff that most people don't read), and if a customer does so then he acts in gross negligence and is liable for the losses. Then there's the fact that most CC providers have settled for paperless statements years ago, so sending a scan of a paper statement simply isn't possible if there is none.

In addition (and please don't take this personally), I have to say that asking customers to send sensitive data (which is what CC data is) over unencrypted email is highly unprofessional and quite frankly, simply plain stupid as it defies even the most basic information security principles every business should follow (and may even open yourself up to liability). The least you should have done is offering a secure upload facility where customers can upload their CC scans, and which runs on a certified backend which, after the legitimacy has been verified, securely erases all scans. But that would still only address the issue of transferring scans you at the end of the day should never ever have requested in the first place.

If you're afraid of fraud, then what you can do is put in place a rule that the first order from a new international customer is subject to a 10 day holding period, and then ask your CC provider to check the specific CC data as suspicious. This would trigger a request to the customer's CC provider to check with their customer that the transaction is genuine. That would be a simple, common sense approach, which would not put your customer and yourself in a situation you both may regret later on.

Another alternative would be taking out insurance against loss through fraud. I'm sure even in the US such policies are available, if you believe the risk is worth it.

I have never bought from you (I did check your LeCroy offerings on your website, but most of the stuff that is listed is way outdated and no longer available, and quite frankly conveys a very poor first impression) but quite frankly I would never buy from a reseller that asks me to do dodgy stuff like sending images of my CC via unencrypted email, as this would make violate the T&C with my CC provider and invalidate my fraud protection, and I would advise anyone against to shop with a store that has such a lax and unprofessional attitude towards sensitive customer data.

I know you're not the only US seller that does that, and maybe from a US point of view this all looks sensible (like many other things). But I can tell you that from an international point of view this puts you in a huge disadvantage and only serves you to harm your reputation. It certainly did that with me.

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« Last Edit: April 28, 2013, 01:19:17 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2013, 01:19:12 pm »
I know you're not the only US seller that does that, and maybe from a US point of view this all looks sensible (like many other things).

Credit card scans over email? No, that feels dodgy to me to, and most of the people I know are quite wary of sending out private information like that. Maybe it's more common here, but it's still not common.
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2013, 01:22:31 pm »
Credit card scans over email? No, that feels dodgy to me to, and most of the people I know are quite wary of sending out private information like that. Maybe it's more common here, but it's still not common.

I was shopping for another LeCroy scope and contacted a few sellers in the US, and some of them said that they required scans/images from my CC. Needless to say I didn't buy from them, but in all honesty, even if they hadn't asked me for CC scans I still would buy something that they try to sell for inflated prices for more than a year.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2013, 01:48:41 pm »
Im listening if you have ideas

You still haven't got it. It is your, not our, job to figure out how to do this. Without treating international customers like criminals. Without trying to convince them to violate their contracts with their credit card companies. Without insisting on privacy invasions by asking for certain documents.

The thread started one year ago. You apparently changed absolutely nothing during that year. You can't be arsed to do it proper. So international customers don't seem to be important for you. If you can't or won't do it right, here is my suggestion: Stop insulting us, stop marketing to international customers.


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but what I sometimes hear is we should just process orders blindly then I would lose a lot of money

Yes, we got it, we are all criminals for you until proven innocent.
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2013, 05:06:35 pm »
Sorry for being lazy, I'm sure this has already been asked but what's wrong with drawing the cash from the CC and posting the purchased item once the funds are cleared? and do they do the same stuff with paypal?
 

Offline zibadun

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Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2013, 05:39:50 pm »
Bored, I wonder what's your motivation here for bullying a US dealer? ;) 

Tequipment can do as you wish but then forget about discounted prices.

You can ship to one of the US based freight forwarders who specializes in intl delivery. They will sign for a package and reduce the risk of a chargeback for the merchant. might even save you a bit on shipping costs and import duty.

 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2013, 06:41:46 pm »
Bored, I wonder what's your motivation here for bullying a US dealer? ;) 

I really can't see any bullying. All that has been highlighted are major issues in their ordering process. In addition, as Bored already said, Tequipment was told that their "verification" process is a problem about year ago, and still hasn't fixed it. They says they listen but apparently this does not result in actually addressing the problem.

And I'm sorry to say but in my experience this is primarily a problem with US sellers, who for some reason want to benefit from a global market but on the other side expect special treatment and leeway. As I said before, funny enough most of the sellers in other countries can protect themselves sufficiently enough without having to resort to practices that result in their customers breaking the T&S of their credit card provider and leaving them open for loss as they invalidate their fraud protection.

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Tequipment can do as you wish but then forget about discounted prices.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you want to suggest that Tequipment can only maintain low prices because they apply practices that are dodgy at best and maybe even borderline illegal (many countries have laws on how to handle, process and protect credit card information, I would be surprised if that was different in the US)?

I'm sure that van in the back alley can offer even better prices if you don't ask where the stuff comes from. Apparently bad practices are no problem for you as long as the price is low enough.
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2013, 09:42:33 pm »
Without trying to convince them to violate their contracts with their credit card companies. Without insisting on privacy invasions by asking for certain documents.
In DK it is neither illegal nor in violation of terms to request a scan or photocopy of a CC. But it is illegal to store the received data anywhere ;-)
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2013, 02:44:45 am »
But in general, the rules a merchant must abide by - their agreement with Visa/MasterCard/AMEX/Discover is the same for a merchant in Japan or one in the USA or one in France - and that includes the rules and mechanisms that control chargebacks.
Visa/MasterCard/AMEX/Discover are as bound by the laws of the countries they operate in as everybody else. The US is but a small part of the world.

You stated that there are places where vendors are guaranteed to receive payment.  As far as accepting Visa/MC/Amex/Discover, that is not true.  What I said is correct.  the VISA/MC/Amex/Discover card rules are pretty much standardized across countries.  If you want to continue to say I am wrong and do not know what I am talking about, then please tell us the country which has credit card rules that assure vendors of getting paid and eliminate the right of a cardholder to do a chargeback, or accept that you were mistaken on your claim.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2013, 02:55:32 am »
Bored, I wonder what's your motivation here for bullying a US dealer? ;) 

I really can't see any bullying. All that has been highlighted are major issues in their ordering process. In addition, as Bored already said, Tequipment was told that their "verification" process is a problem about year ago, and still hasn't fixed it. They says they listen but apparently this does not result in actually addressing the problem.

And I'm sorry to say but in my experience this is primarily a problem with US sellers, who for some reason want to benefit from a global market but on the other side expect special treatment and leeway. As I said before, funny enough most of the sellers in other countries can protect themselves sufficiently enough without having to resort to practices that result in their customers breaking the T&S of their credit card provider and leaving them open for loss as they invalidate their fraud protection.

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Tequipment can do as you wish but then forget about discounted prices.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Do you want to suggest that Tequipment can only maintain low prices because they apply practices that are dodgy at best and maybe even borderline illegal (many countries have laws on how to handle, process and protect credit card information, I would be surprised if that was different in the US)?

I'm sure that van in the back alley can offer even better prices if you don't ask where the stuff comes from. Apparently bad practices are no problem for you as long as the price is low enough.

I would be shocked if there was any law anywhere that state you cannot send a copy of your CC statement.  I also just checked my Amex (US), Amex (UK), RBS MasterCard,  and Santander MasterCard agreements (I am one of those anal retentive people who actually scan that stuff and keep a copy on my server @ Home) and none of them mention copies of the card of statement being prohibited.

As for bullying, a couple seem to be very dogged in their pursuit of a company they do not do any business with.  Like I said, who walks into a restaurant weekly where they don't like the service just to tell them they won't be eating there?

As the guy from TE said, AVS is not available for international customers, which means that if a chargeback is initiated by a customer, TE will lose the money and the equipment.  The solution is to ship using something like FedEx international express with a signature required - but that will cost $300-400USD for a small 'scope.  Then we'll hear a whole other type of whining  :scared:

My experience is that people (understandably) want cheap American prices for quality products but don't want to pay for quality shipping.  I live in Europe half the year and there is a reason everything is more expensive there - part of it is exactly the reason behind TE's desire for additional authentication.  I export product from the USA to Europe as well, so I am in a unique position where I see both sides as a credit card holder and a merchant, plus as a resident of the USA and as a resident and citizen of Europe. 

All of this equipment is available from European/Japanese/Australian/Asian sellers, isn't it?  Isn't the angst just down to price/convenience?  I can understand that being frustrating, but like I said - this equipment is not exclusively sold in the USA either.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 03:31:25 am by Corporate666 »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2013, 05:09:49 am »
In DK it is neither illegal nor in violation of terms to request a scan or photocopy of a CC. But it is illegal to store the received data anywhere ;-)

I'm pretty sure both is incorrect, as most certainly merchants in DK are bound by the same contractual agreements as merchants in other EU countries (and CC providers will have the same restrictions in place as anywhere else), and also because CC data has to be stored to be able to be processed for payment.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 05:11:46 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2013, 05:46:25 am »
I would be shocked if there was any law anywhere that state you cannot send a copy of your CC statement.

I never said there was a law, I was talking about contractual agreements which is a different matter and which you seem to be mixing up.

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I also just checked my Amex (US), Amex (UK), RBS MasterCard,  and Santander MasterCard agreements (I am one of those anal retentive people who actually scan that stuff and keep a copy on my server @ Home) and none of them mention copies of the card of statement being prohibited.

Both my personal and my corporate CCs have clauses in their current terms which prevent me sending photos/images from the back of the card (the front of the card may be scanned with a PCI-DSS compliant merchant device). In addition, all CC providers warn about giving out personal information like your CC statement (which is no-one else's business, period), and contain disclaimers in their terms for their fraud protection that it does not cover gross negligence. It may be different in the US but here in Europe giving up sensitive information like copies of both sides of a CC or your statement is regularly considered gross negligence in court.

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As for bullying, a couple seem to be very dogged in their pursuit of a company they do not do any business with.  Like I said, who walks into a restaurant weekly where they don't like the service just to tell them they won't be eating there?

That's utter bollocks, sorry. First, this is more or less an open forum, and this thread started because someone has complained about Tequipment's order process for international customers, which is fair enough for a reseller that quite often promotes himself on the same forum. At the end of the day the fact remains that Tequipment does something (requesting sensitive information via a completely insecure way of transmission) which is not just wrong because it does violate the PCI-DSS standard (which requires that only the front of the card may be requested, and that all CC data must be transmitted via secure, certified facilities, which is not plain text email) and thereby most certainly also Tequipments contractual agreement with their payment provider, it also will at best put their customers at risk of loosing all their fraud protection, if they are naïve enough to follow Tequipment's request.

The point is that if you operate a business then you have certain responsibilities. The fact that they request users to send data via plain text email is completely moronic and highly unprofessional, period.

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As the guy from TE said, AVS is not available for international customers, which means that if a chargeback is initiated by a customer, TE will lose the money and the equipment.  The solution is to ship using something like FedEx international express with a signature required - but that will cost $300-400USD for a small 'scope.  Then we'll hear a whole other type of whining  :scared:

So what? if they can't act professionally on an international level then it's probably better they would sell to US customers only. If they are afraid of fraud then why offer unprotected shipping options in the first place? Aside from the fact that their request protects them from nothing. It would take me maybe 15mins to prepare an image of a CC I don't have and a statement that never existed. It's no protection whatsoever. It's just another example of their very unprofessional approach to international business and their general cluelessness on how to do these things properly.

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My experience is that people (understandably) want cheap American prices for quality products but don't want to pay for quality shipping.

The thing is that many US sellers want to play on the international market without having a clue that things may be different outside the US, and many are simply too lazy to prepare before themselves before selling to an international audience. Many businesses manage just fine to sell internationally without having to resort to dodgy tactics. It's just a few black sheep that want all the business but can't handle the risk. It seems Tequipment is one of them.
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2013, 06:43:46 am »
In DK it is neither illegal nor in violation of terms to request a scan or photocopy of a CC.
But it is illegal to store the received data anywhere ;-)

I'm pretty sure both is incorrect,
It is correct according to a spokesperson for nets.eu, the major CC handler in DK. He also pointed out that the images of the card must not be stored. The same spokesperson also pointed out that they do not recommend that CC holders actually honor such requests. For exactly the reason you are using in your criticism of tequipment's practices :-)
http://taenk.dk/t%C3%A6nk-penge/hit-med-dankortet
The

as most certainly merchants in DK are bound by the same contractual agreements as merchants in other EU countries (and CC providers will have the same restrictions in place as anywhere else), and also because CC data has to be stored to be able to be processed for payment.
The best way, as a seller, not to fall afoul of the law is to not store any CC information yourself, but leave it to the handler.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 06:59:45 am by Tepe »
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2013, 06:47:46 am »
Many businesses manage just fine to sell internationally without having to resort to dodgy tactics. It's just a few black sheep that want all the business but can't handle the risk. It seems Tequipment is one of them.
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Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #90 on: April 29, 2013, 06:51:20 am »
You stated that there are places where vendors are guaranteed to receive payment.  As far as accepting Visa/MC/Amex/Discover, that is not true.  What I said is correct.  the VISA/MC/Amex/Discover card rules are pretty much standardized across countries.  If you want to continue to say I am wrong and do not know what I am talking about, then please tell us the country which has credit card rules that assure vendors of getting paid and eliminate the right of a cardholder to do a chargeback, or accept that you were mistaken on your claim.
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Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2013, 06:58:18 am »
I would be shocked if there was any law anywhere that state you cannot send a copy of your CC statement.
I don't think anybody claimed that there were. But there are plenty of places where CC statements do not exist, as has been popnted out several times.

I live in Europe half the year and there is a reason everything is more expensive there - part of it is exactly the reason behind TE's desire for additional authentication.
To a person from a country with negligible rates of CC fraud that comes across as an outrageous claim. care to back it up?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2013, 07:08:04 am »
You stated that there are places where vendors are guaranteed to receive payment.  As far as accepting Visa/MC/Amex/Discover, that is not true.  What I said is correct.  the VISA/MC/Amex/Discover card rules are pretty much standardized across countries.  If you want to continue to say I am wrong and do not know what I am talking about, then please tell us the country which has credit card rules that assure vendors of getting paid and eliminate the right of a cardholder to do a chargeback, or accept that you were mistaken on your claim.
You don't know what you are talking about.

I've challenged you to back up your statement and all you have come back with is that I don't know what I am talking about.

So I challenge you yet AGAIN to prove your statement or accept it is wrong.  I was good enough to back up mine, and I'd ask for the same.

You stated that there are places where vendors are guaranteed to receive payment and suggested I was being an arrogant American for thinking it works the same way around the world.

So, please prove the statement or be kind enough to retract it or at least accept it was an opinion and not a fact.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:38:46 am by Corporate666 »
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #93 on: April 29, 2013, 07:21:16 am »
To a person from a country with negligible rates of CC fraud that comes across as an outrageous claim. care to back it up?

When a company ships an appreciable volume of product to Europe, they are not sending it by US Postal Bulk Mail. They are going to send it insured and with a trackable method.  That costs money and those costs are passed to the consumer.

That same shipping is available to consumers directly through companies like FedEx or UPS. People who are buying from US companies generally do not want to pay the fees those couriers charge.  They want USPS flat rate or 1st Class because it is much cheaper.  But it exposes the vendor to liability because there is no proof of delivery nor is there address verification through the CC system - unless they have a copy of the card statement that can verify the billing address.

The cost of that trackable shipping is a part of the cost that a EU vendor must recoup and is a part of why prices are generally higher than in the US for the same product.
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2013, 07:31:53 am »

I never said there was a law, I was talking about contractual agreements which is a different matter and which you seem to be mixing up.

You said it was dodgy and maybe borderline illegal.  Legality is defined by law, not contracts.

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Both my personal and my corporate CCs have clauses in their current terms which prevent me sending photos/images from the back of the card (the front of the card may be scanned with a PCI-DSS compliant merchant device). In addition, all CC providers warn about giving out personal information like your CC statement (which is no-one else's business, period), and contain disclaimers in their terms for their fraud protection that it does not cover gross negligence. It may be different in the US but here in Europe giving up sensitive information like copies of both sides of a CC or your statement is regularly considered gross negligence in court.

I would very much like to see a link to a court case where showing information such as the card front/back was considered gross negligence and invalidated the credit card fraud protection.

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That's utter bollocks, sorry. First, this is more or less an open forum, and this thread started because someone has complained about Tequipment's order process for international customers, which is fair enough for a reseller that quite often promotes himself on the same forum. At the end of the day the fact remains that Tequipment does something (requesting sensitive information via a completely insecure way of transmission) which is not just wrong because it does violate the PCI-DSS standard (which requires that only the front of the card may be requested, and that all CC data must be transmitted via secure, certified facilities, which is not plain text email) and thereby most certainly also Tequipments contractual agreement with their payment provider, it also will at best put their customers at risk of loosing all their fraud protection, if they are naïve enough to follow Tequipment's request.

PCI-DSS compliance is not a requirement for other than level 4 merchants.  Unless they are a level 4 merchant, they are not breaking their agreement by requesting a copy of the card- and they may not be even if they are a PCI compliant level 4 merchant, if all they are requesting is a copy of the statement showing the mailing address. 


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The point is that if you operate a business then you have certain responsibilities. The fact that they request users to send data via plain text email is completely moronic and highly unprofessional, period.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if they are asking for a copy of the statement showing billing address, I do not think that unprofessional or moronic at all.  The idea that sending such would be grossly negligent and rescind a customer's liability protection is bollocks, sorry.

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So what? if they can't act professionally on an international level then it's probably better they would sell to US customers only. If they are afraid of fraud then why offer unprotected shipping options in the first place? Aside from the fact that their request protects them from nothing. It would take me maybe 15mins to prepare an image of a CC I don't have and a statement that never existed. It's no protection whatsoever. It's just another example of their very unprofessional approach to international business and their general cluelessness on how to do these things properly.

It comes across to me that you feel that companies who do not do business in a manner you agree with somehow deserve to be ridiculed stupid morons and run out of town. I disagree.  I think everyone ought to be free to buy from them or not.  I also disagree that it protects them from nothing.  Most crime is crime of opportunity.  Most credit card fraud comes from people who had the card in their possession (like a petrol station attendant or a server at a restaurant).  That card information gets copied and used - often online.  In most cases, the thief does not have the billing address, and likely would not know what the statement was supposed to look like.  Furthermore, if pressed to provide such, most thieves will move on to an easier target rather than attempt to keep the scam alive. 

If also comes across to me as quite arrogant for us to imagine that all of these large companies who enact such measures are simply too stupid to think it through and understand that it does nothing to protect them, and also very arrogant for people to make assumptions about the results those vendors are seeing.  It seems more likely that the anger being displayed is because people do not like to be labeled as potential security risks (understandable) but also that people are being petulant about wanting their cake and to eat it too.  Going back to the restaurant analogy - I don't feel the need to go to local restaurants I don't like and tell them I will not be dining there.  Works out pretty well, too :D


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The thing is that many US sellers want to play on the international market without having a clue that things may be different outside the US, and many are simply too lazy to prepare before themselves before selling to an international audience. Many businesses manage just fine to sell internationally without having to resort to dodgy tactics. It's just a few black sheep that want all the business but can't handle the risk. It seems Tequipment is one of them.

Interesting that people always categorize Americans (second time this thread).  Especially so considering the quantity of misinformation being tossed about in the thread, and the link from a prior poster illustrating that a Dutch company was doing exactly the same thing.  There goes that theory!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2013, 07:37:32 am by Corporate666 »
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2013, 07:53:26 am »
I live in Europe half the year and there is a reason everything is more expensive there - part of it is exactly the reason behind TE's desire for additional authentication.

I hope you don't want to suggest that lots of stuff is more expensive in Europe than in the US is because Europe has higher fraud levels, because if you do then I'm afraid you need a thorough reality check.

The simple reason why a lot of stuff is more expensive in Europe than in the US is the same reason why Americans pay much more for basic health care or cell phone contracts than Europeans do, and it's also the reason why we have Region Codes on DVDs: because the market accepts it. Most manufacturers adjust their RRP to local market conditions (i.e. what the market will bear). Suggesting it has anything to do with CC fraud is silly.

In addition, the US is no longer the source where everything is cheaper than in Europe. Most electronics gear can be ordered inside the EU for around the same price as it would cost me to import from the US (even with cheap shipping). If I order from the US then this is mostly because a certain item is readily available and I might have it quicker than when ordering from a European seller. In addition, the 2nd hand market is also larger, and usually has a better choice of used T&M equipement than what I can find here in Europe. It's not necessarily cheaper, though, as many US sellers ask prices that are somewhere between 'expensive' and simply 'insane'.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2013, 08:34:20 am »
I live in Europe half the year and there is a reason everything is more expensive there - part of it is exactly the reason behind TE's desire for additional authentication.

I hope you don't want to suggest that lots of stuff is more expensive in Europe than in the US is because Europe has higher fraud levels, because if you do then I'm afraid you need a thorough reality check.

The simple reason why a lot of stuff is more expensive in Europe than in the US is the same reason why Americans pay much more for basic health care or cell phone contracts than Europeans do, and it's also the reason why we have Region Codes on DVDs: because the market accepts it. Most manufacturers adjust their RRP to local market conditions (i.e. what the market will bear). Suggesting it has anything to do with CC fraud is silly.

In addition, the US is no longer the source where everything is cheaper than in Europe. Most electronics gear can be ordered inside the EU for around the same price as it would cost me to import from the US (even with cheap shipping). If I order from the US then this is mostly because a certain item is readily available and I might have it quicker than when ordering from a European seller. In addition, the 2nd hand market is also larger, and usually has a better choice of used T&M equipement than what I can find here in Europe. It's not necessarily cheaper, though, as many US sellers ask prices that are somewhere between 'expensive' and simply 'insane'.

If what you say is true and products can be ordered within the EU for the same or lower price than ordering from the USA, then there is no need for this thread at all, nor does anyone have any reason to be buying anything from me, or TE or from any of the other thousands of US sellers who ship a lot of product to the EU and internationally.  The fact that about 50% of my business is shipping product internationally means that the suggestion is not true and people are saving money by buying internationally.  They surely aren't doing it because it's fun.

The idea that prices are higher because the consumer accepts it is silly - and is irreconcilable with the follow-on claim that prices are not higher.  :-//
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Offline baljemmett

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2013, 01:34:32 pm »
Quote
The point is that if you operate a business then you have certain responsibilities. The fact that they request users to send data via plain text email is completely moronic and highly unprofessional, period.

You are entitled to your opinion, but if they are asking for a copy of the statement showing billing address, I do not think that unprofessional or moronic at all.

Well, it definitely shows a mindset stuck in the terribly quaint type of banking system that depends on sending bits of paper in the post.  As has been observed repeatedly in this thread, not everybody is quite so lucky; my credit card statement, for instance, is electronic and doesn't show any physical address at all, so it's not going to be of much use here!

(What it does show, mind you, is how large my line of credit is with that particular bank.  So if I were asked to include a screenshot of that along with scans of both the front and back of my credit card, and send the whole lot in plaintext across a completely unknown mail system, I think I'd pass; perhaps people who are willing to do that live in a happy fantasy world where we don't regularly see examples of sites' systems being compromised and customer data lifted.)

Quote
Going back to the restaurant analogy - I don't feel the need to go to local restaurants I don't like and tell them I will not be dining there.

That analogy would work better if this discussion was taking place in the restaurant - but it's not.  It's taking place in a public forum where the restaurant is trying to drum up business; I don't know about you, but that's exactly where I'd normally expect to find people complaining about their visit.
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2013, 02:12:54 pm »
The idea that prices are higher because the consumer accepts it is silly
Not at all. The phenomenon is called "perceived value" and it is a rather fundamental thing.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: Tequipment international order requirements :o
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2013, 02:31:02 pm »

If what you say is true and products can be ordered within the EU for the same or lower price than ordering from the USA, then there is no need for this thread at all, nor does anyone have any reason to be buying anything from me, or TE or from any of the other thousands of US sellers who ship a lot of product to the EU and internationally.  The fact that about 50% of my business is shipping product internationally means that the suggestion is not true and people are saving money by buying internationally.  They surely aren't doing it because it's fun.

The idea that prices are higher because the consumer accepts it is silly - and is irreconcilable with the follow-on claim that prices are not higher.  :-//

It's not always the price.

I have bought from companies outside my country (Romania) when a brand I wanted only dealt with a particular distributor in my country, which couldn't be bothered to sell to private persons. Their markup was so high, they made a lot of money dealing only with companies so unless you bought a carton (24-100 pcs of something) they wouldn't talk to you.

On other cases, it's the price... as an example, all the stores in my town buy Uni-T multimeters from a distributor in Poland, which has high markup.. the Uni-T UT61E arrives here on the shelves at 80 euro + VAT (about 130-140$) , and I can buy it on eBay for 60$ (and they often mark it as toy or value it at under 10-20$, so no customs and vat).

Anyway... I would NOT give you a copy of my credit card, as far as I'm aware the local companies are not allowed to ask for it as it's a security risk. Email is not secure, and I wouldn't know how many people on your end would get access to that info.

The most serious security I stumbled upon was with Paypal to which I had to email a copy of my national ID and a copy of an electricity/mains bill for my home address with my name on it. But even with those, I scanned them to the computer and cut out the  equivalent of the SSN and/or bank details and still got my account verified.

The hosting company I work with requires a phone number and after making an order, they call you back (skype credit/voip is cheap) and go through the details and confirm the address and payment details and everything is recorded. Don't know how much it helps with chargebacks  or scammers but I think this phone call may be for them enough of a deterrent to reduce the number of scammers or people using stolen cards.

I don't get any paper invoices, i get online card reports... i can request one from the bank office (to be printed but it costs about 1$) or i could print it myself, but then again just the same I could fake one in photoshop so I don't get how this helps you guys.
 


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