Tequipment international order requirements :o

[ivan747]

I'm just regularly checking credit card statements and prepared to call my CC company when they get abused.

That is, of course the best way to do it. Some credit card companies in here send you and SMS each time a transaction is done, if you want them to, and I think it is free, something remarkable. Here the SMS are ridiculously expensive.

(Off topic)
In fact, having internet on your cellphone and some smartphone chat app like WhatsApp is cheaper than having conversations every day via SMS (500 SMS = RD$275; 250MB = RD$295, ~$7.50 USD each). The same applies to Skype (and their credits) and international calls, to mildly bring this post back to topic.

[siliconmix]

i would check wether showing any part of a stament  voids your online fraud insurance.lightages.

[tequipment]

All,
    I found it very interesting reading your feedback on this issue with international translations.   We require the information to protect us from fraud. 
In the USA we have an avs system that allows us to check to see if the address we are shipping to matches that on the billing statement on the credit card.

Internationally that is not the case 99% of the time.  I would like to hear suggestions on how to verify these orders from a customers perspective.   We want orders , we want the business, and we want it to be easy but the amount of fraud we see internationally is huge.  I look forward to your feedback on this matter.  And to clear up a small issue we do not ask for the cvv code to be sent to us.

Thanks
Evan Cirelli

Vice President
Tequipment.NET
evan@tequipment.net

[EEVblog]

All,
    I found it very interesting reading your feedback on this issue with international translations.   We require the information to protect us from fraud. 
In the USA we have an avs system that allows us to check to see if the address we are shipping to matches that on the billing statement on the credit card.

Internationally that is not the case 99% of the time.  I would like to hear suggestions on how to verify these orders from a customers perspective.

The obvious way to do this is to use PayPal, as you can limit transactions to "verified" addresses if you chose, and many merchants do this. I think most people would be more than happy with PayPal if offered.
The fees are higher of course, but it's not uncommon for companies to pass this onto the consumer, and most understand that.

Dave.

[slateraptor]

My personal problem is that I do not receive paper statements.

It's really more of a systemic issue when considering how just about every bank in the US spams the crap out of their patrons in an attempt to get them to "voluntarily" switch to digital statement delivery in an attempt to reduce overhead costs (not save the trees, despite popular belief; some institutes even charge a monthly fee if you continue to receive hard paper statements). I manage 4 independent accounts ranging from a personal checking to a credit card for official government use only and all have done this.

[Teknotronix]

I went through quite a long process with TEquipment to make an order for my company about 12 months ago. Was spending around 5K. Got through the whole thing and realized I had to fax or email a copy of my CC. I put off the sales because of it. Sending details like that over an unencrypted channel is not safe for the buyer.

[G7PSK]

Even the pin and chip system is not secure. The electronics lab in Cambridge were on the news recently, they proved hoe any one with a small amount of knowledge and less than £50.00 of components can put together a device that can get past the chip and pin security on the fly. These days I look for paypal if the supplier does not use it I try to go else where.

[PeterG]

These days PayPal is the best option for dealing with companies online.

I am no lawyer but i can see maybe TEquipment is leaving themselves open to prosecution by a client who has had the credit card used fraudulently because requesting this information via email/fax there is no way to guarantee the information is secure?

I could be wrong however.

Regards

[Teknotronix]

These days PayPal is the best option for dealing with companies online.

I am no lawyer but i can see maybe TEquipment is leaving themselves open to prosecution by a client who has had the credit card used fraudulently because requesting this information via email/fax there is no way to guarantee the information is secure?

I could be wrong however.

Regards

Could be. They are not alone in using that method. AllParts in the states, who sell luthier supplier, also do it.

[alm]

I'm not sure if Paypal is a good option for the real distributors. It's all fine and dandy for Ebay sellers that don't have enough revenue to pay for a merchant account (or are forced to use Paypal by Ebay), but what if an international buyer files a complaint, and  because international USPS shipping (which the customer requested to save money) lacks proper tracking and rolling the dice resulted in two ones, Paypal decides to freeze the seller's account for a few weeks? Are companies supposed to close down because Paypal makes it very hard to talk to a human capable of resolving these kind of situations? I would rather deal with a proper business-oriented credit card processor than with Paypal.

[Powersonic]

This company is just ridiculous, I made a purchase from them some time in march and the 20th of April had came with out a delivery. I had to call them and cancel my order . I will never shop there again . Also note that I am local and if this is happening to me just imaging what would happen to a international customer .

[saturation]

Although I haven't bought very much from them, whatever I did came within 2-3 days, most came overnight even if it wasn't overnight shipping.

This company is just ridiculous, I made a purchase from them some time in march and the 20th of April had came with out a delivery. I had to call them and cancel my order . I will never shop there again . Also note that I am local and if this is happening to me just imaging what would happen to a international customer .

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I just ordered a fluke 1587 from them, they took my money and said we can't sell you that try this, because you are not from USA.
"We would like to offer you as an alternative AEMC 2116.92"
I wish I had my money back,
I am trying to get the Fluke shipped to a US address, now they say it is not in stock and they are waiting on Fluke to deliver it to them!
In a fit of anger I opened a dispute with Paypal about this, I wish I hadn't.
Tequipment wants me to close it before they give my money back, but If I do this I waive all my dispute rights.
I quoted Paypals policy to them and haven't heard back, for two days.
I sent them:

I was going to close the dispute but when I went to close it. Paypal says:

Remember, a closed dispute cannot be re-opened or escalated to a claim with PayPal. Make sure that you are 100% satisfied with the outcome of this dispute before you close it.
For example, if the seller is offering a refund, wait until the funds are in your PayPal account before closing this dispute.

It seems quite clear that you should refund the money first.

Actually they have answered:

From Seller - Tequipment.NET / Touchboards.com
With the dispute open a partial refund can not be issued. We will gladly refund your money once you receive your items and the dispute is closed.

They are hopefully going to give me a partial refund of the postage difference. I don't really care as long as I get my DMM.
Hopefully I will get it or my money back in the end.
This whole dispute is caused by bad Web Technology taking my money and then deciding that they can't sell me what they charged me, and they didn't even have it in stock.

addendum: Actually I mucked this up the quotes are out of order.

[alm]

I seem to remember seeing a statement like 'We're not allowed to sell Fluke/Tek/Agilent products outside the US' on their website, I haven't checked if it's still there. This is most likely Fluke trying protect its global partners, not tequipment's unwillingness to take your money. Choosing the nuclear option and opening a dispute should usually be a last resort, but they should still handle this in a professional manner.

[Psi]

This whole dispute is caused by bad Web Technology taking my money and then deciding that they can't sell me what they charged me, and they didn't even have it in stock.

Yeah, a proper website ordering system should collected the payment info needed but only charge the money when the goods are ready to ship.
Any issue about stock level or legal restrictions on selling product X in country Y should be picked up long before the card is charged.

Sadly this is often not the case because companies use preboxed web trading software that doesn't support this type of processing.
Companies should really be coding it themselves to suit their exact needs rather than trying to modify their needs to fit premade software.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Actually I have done better with Aliexpress and the Shenzhen Golden Equipment corporation.

[EEVblog]

I seem to remember seeing a statement like 'We're not allowed to sell Fluke/Tek/Agilent products outside the US' on their website, I haven't checked if it's still there. This is most likely Fluke trying protect its global partners, not tequipment's unwillingness to take your money.

Yes, I've heard that Fluke in particular are very anal about this, and you can lose your dealership if you try and sell outside your area.

Dave.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Yes I must admit I was trying to defeat the system, maybe I got my comuppance.
Or I could suggest I was fighting for free trade.

[Lightages]

I wish I had an answer for TEquipment and their problems with their online commerce, their distrust of anything not US. It seems that with all the business they are turning away unknowingly with their restrictions on doing business with them that they will forever restrict themselves to a US market in a growing world market. If Deal Extreme, Good Luck Buy, Deal Excel, and many others have found a way of making a profit internationally without paranoid restrictions and at lower prices, then it must be possible.

I simply wanted to buy something from a company and was told that I was not to be trusted and that I needed to provide information which was not necessarily easy or correct to supply. I have purchased heavier and more expensive items from HK and China and shipped to a different address than my paypal account and my credit card. Sometimes for free and sometimes for less than $25USD shipping.

This is a global market and it is up to TEuipment to decide if they want to be global or local. Advertising on and supporting EEVblog seems to indicate they want to be global, but are not up to the task of providing a better up front customer sales experience than what can be had in China and Hong Kong.

So to answer the question from TEquipment here:

1. Provide an unoffensive way of confirming your customer's shipping address. Paypal makes a small deposit in the client's bank account of a few cents so that the customer can properly confirm their identity. This method puts the trust in the customer.

2. Provide inexpensive methods of shipping. Anyone outside of the US hates UPS. They charge unreasonable rates at the start, then the local handlers in the client's countries take at least the same amount again for fun, charge extra again for "brokerage" and then maybe ship the item to the client when they feel like it. USPS seems to be the best option here to have things shipped from the US to Chile. All other courier options end up raping the client with hidden and made up charges.

3. Don't accept orders or solicit orders from people if you don't want their business. It wastes our time and yours and causes threads like this one.

4. Stop treating anyone outside of the US as criminals. I am 100% sure that inside the US there are many criminals. Just by numbers there must be more criminals in the US (400,000,000 total pop.) than in Canada (40,000,000) or in Chile (15,000,000).

I have only two options to buy from TEquipment right now. Have the item shipped to my mailbox in Canada and pay CDN taxes and probably ridiculous UPS charges. Then I need to pay for shipping to Chile or bring it down myself and pay another 25% import tax here. Or: I can send them all my personal information, if I can get it easily because I get only estatements, and hope they might be willing to ship to another country that is not on my credit card statement and probably have to pay for the ridiculous UPS charges again anyway.

Each time I have asked officially by email what I need to do I just get told to do what we ask or (implied) "forget it".

Sorry for being so bitchy about this but I am tired of being treated like I owe a company something and need to beg to give them my money. TEquipment is not the first in my list of companies who automatically treat the customer as an inconvenience. The fact that there has been no offer to do business, unless I do things out of the ordinary and proven as ineffective for their security, for so long shows that I am banging my head against the table here.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

I am not sure how bad your experience has been Lightages, but mine is really only  a bit of uneccessary delay, and then me spitting the dummy because of that.
Yes I agree they could do better and they will have to fight to remain relevant. I think that includes improving their shopping system.
That said I don't think they have been delibrately trying to sabotage me, and I have bought stuff off them before ok, although I had to talk with them directly before they would accept my debit card. Digikey and Mouser and Arrow wont even accept my debit card. (Another story).
Also they have answered all my emails with 24 hours and I even chatted with somebody from their sales team last night. eg.

Where is my order?
It is coming.
OK.

They have even said they will refund the difference in postage, they just haven't done it.
I had have also had painful experiences with Digikey,Mouser,Arrow and Amazon, to name a few.

This shows there is at least one advantage of being a US citizen.

[T4P]

I am not sure how bad your experience has been Lightages, but mine is really only  a bit of uneccessary delay, and then me spitting the dummy because of that.
Yes I agree they could do better and they will have to fight to remain relevant. I think that includes improving their shopping system.
That said I don't think they have been delibrately trying to sabotage me, and I have bought stuff off them before ok, although I had to talk with them directly before they would accept my debit card. Digikey and Mouser and Arrow wont even accept my debit card. (Another story).
Also they have answered all my emails with 24 hours and I even chatted with somebody from their sales team last night. eg.

Where is my order?
It is coming.
OK.

They have even said they will refund the difference in postage, they just haven't done it.
I had have also had painful experiences with Digikey,Mouser,Arrow and Amazon, to name a few.

This shows there is at least one advantage of being a US citizen.

Digikey accepted my debit card but hell they overcharged but still at least returned the difference in 5 days .

Actually I have done better with Aliexpress and the Shenzhen Golden Equipment corporation.

Where? I can't find them

[alm]

Yeah, a proper website ordering system should collected the payment info needed but only charge the money when the goods are ready to ship.
Any issue about stock level or legal restrictions on selling product X in country Y should be picked up long before the card is charged.

Does the Paypal system support this at all? I don't think I've ever encountered a Paypal transaction that went like this, it would make authorization more complex as far as Paypal is concerned. Paypal would also need to have a concept of authorization hold.

It is very common with credit card transactions, however.

2. Provide inexpensive methods of shipping. Anyone outside of the US hates UPS. They charge unreasonable rates at the start, then the local handlers in the client's countries take at least the same amount again for fun, charge extra again for "brokerage" and then maybe ship the item to the client when they feel like it. USPS seems to be the best option here to have things shipped from the US to Chile. All other courier options end up raping the client with hidden and made up charges.

USPS sucks as far as tracking and insurance is concerned, however. Depending on the destination country (eg. Italy), there are sometimes long delays, without anyone being able to tell where the package went. This means that the customer may dispute the claim. USPS is good for international customers, but not so great for the seller. UPS also provides better services to the seller for labeling and pickup.

4. Stop treating anyone outside of the US as criminals. I am 100% sure that inside the US there are many criminals. Just by numbers there must be more criminals in the US (400,000,000 total pop.) than in Canada (40,000,000) or in Chile (15,000,000).

Crime rate is probably not that different between the US and many other countries (except for Australia of course), but credit card details verification and delivery tracking is harder for international sales. Law enforcement is also much slower and less efficient for international fraud cases, you need both your local police department and the police department in the other country to care about your case. The fraud rate for international credit card transactions is much harder than for domestic credit cards.

Sorry for being so bitchy about this but I am tired of being treated like I owe a company something and need to beg to give them my money. TEquipment is not the first in my list of companies who automatically treat the customer as an inconvenience. The fact that there has been no offer to do business, unless I do things out of the ordinary and proven as ineffective for their security, for so long shows that I am banging my head against the table here.

Just vote with your wallet and buy somewhere else. They apparently did a cost-benefit analysis of this issue, and concluded that the number of lost sales lost due to this policy represents less revenue than they would otherwise lose to fraud.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

    Yeah, a proper website ordering system should collected the payment info needed but only charge the money when the goods are ready to ship.
    Any issue about stock level or legal restrictions on selling product X in country Y should be picked up long before the card is charged.

Does the Paypal system support this at all? I don't think I've ever encountered a Paypal transaction that went like this, it would make authorization more complex as far as Paypal is concerned. Paypal would also need to have a concept of authorization hold.

It is very common with credit card transactions, however.

Well Paypal definitely debited me first, but only because I told them to do it through the Tequipment website.
I got an email off Tequipment within about 24hours saying they couldn't actually give me the Fluke because I had an Australian shipping address. (Obviously Flukes rules). And would I like some other model that I had never heard of with less features for almost the same price?

   

Actually I have done better with Aliexpress and the Shenzhen Golden Equipment corporation.

Where? I can't find them

No I completely made the name up,  the actual name of the company I would have to look up on aliexpress, they were bad at packing, told me I lived in a regional area and couldn't use DHL, but they were prompt when I needed a replacement part which had broken because of their bad packing.

[ErikTheNorwegian]

I had this problem frequently before, but as i posted in antother post:

"So what we do is getting an American address!
There is a company that gives You an address in the US, You order your goods to that address, and they send it, fix customs and bring it home to you. You can choose either chipping via  air or via boat to norway.
I`m sure there is a service in EU that do the same..    just Google with the following words in the search field: eu american adress shopping usa
an example:
https://www.bongous.com/
For Norwegian customers: http://www.jetcarrier.com/partner/default.asp"

For electro wizards in OZ.. one service is http://www.ustooz.com/

Aftwer that, hopefully no more problems.. 

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Yes I signed up to comGateway.com I am giving them a try.
I wished I had known about these places earlier, they even consolidate multiple purchases from different suppliers.
Their prices seem reasonable too.