Submersible missing while visiting Titanic wreck

[james_s]

"the passengers were sealed inside the vessel by bolts applied from the outside" (and the bolts can not be opened from the inside)

What's not to like about that...

Honestly, that's a daredevil ride, and those happen to fail.

That's probably the least of the problems with the craft. I mean let's say you are able to somehow open the hatch from within, how is that going to help you when you're 12,000 feet under the sea? The occupants would be instantly crushed by the pressure if the hatch was opened. I think seeing the Titanic would be cool, but there is no way I'd ever get into a cobbled together craft like that to do so.

[james_s]

It's pretty tiny and will probably drift along with any underwater currents. Especially if they lose power.

I guess it might. I had assumed if something went wrong either it would automatically surface, or it would sink like a rock and hit the bottom directly below, depending of course on exactly what went wrong. I think it's extremely likely all occupants are already dead either way.

[ataradov]

That's probably the least of the problems with the craft. I mean let's say you are able to somehow open the hatch from within, how is that going to help you when you're 12,000 feet under the sea?

I think this is a problem if the ballast is automatically released and you float to the surface. You are still toast if you surface outside of the search area.

And I'm not clear on how far it can go, presumably it is maneuverable enough. Imagine $0.10 potentiometer in that  cheapo Logitech controller started to drift and sent them sideways.

Presumably there would be a radio beacon, but presumably the sub should not be designed by CEOs in a first place, so who knows.

[pickle9000]

Sonobouys reportedly heard banging.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/searchers-for-titanic-tourist-sub-heard-banging-from-area-internal-comms-reveal/ar-AA1cOArs

I find that hard to believe at that depth.

That would be a Russian sub hunter aircraft. Not designed for depth so not likely.

[james_s]

I think this is a problem if the ballast is automatically released and you float to the surface. You are still toast if you surface outside of the search area.

And I'm not clear on how far it can go, presumably it is maneuverable enough. Imagine $0.10 potentiometer in that  cheapo Logitech controller started to drift and sent them sideways.

Presumably there would be a radio beacon, but presumably the sub should not be designed by CEOs in a first place, so who knows.

That is a valid point, or worse, if you pass under something and then the ballast is automatically released and you get stuck under that thing, the thought is terrifying. I would assume they had some kind of radio or satellite rescue beacon on board in case they surfaced somewhere in the distance but who knows. Even in that scenario opening the hatch probably isn't going to help you since you're still out in the middle of the ocean, although an inflatable life raft is an option at that point.

[EEVblog]

That is a valid point, or worse, if you pass under something and then the ballast is automatically released and you get stuck under that thing, the thought is terrifying. I would assume they had some kind of radio or satellite rescue beacon on board in case they surfaced somewhere in the distance but who knows. Even in that scenario opening the hatch probably isn't going to help you since you're still out in the middle of the ocean, although an inflatable life raft is an option at that point.

From what I've gathered:
a) There is no location beacon
b) You can't open the hatch from the inside, it's sealed from the outside using 18 bolts
c) A journalist has told how on a previous expendition that due to currents they got stuck under the propeller of the titantic and eventually were able to free themselves. So it shows this sort of thing can happen.

If they are trapped down there and the ballast system has activated and they are stuck, it's entirely possibe that changing currents may one day break it free and it resurfaces.

[EEVblog]

then why shouldn't someone be able to choose to be a paying customer of someething risky?

It is fine, but along with a waiver to the company, you should ask customer for a waiver from taxpayer money being spend on rescuing them. Then it would be on the customer to asses the risks and check what kind of rescue capabilities the company has.
I don't care if someone wants to die the stupidest death ever. But I also don't care to pay for their rescue.

It doesn't matter what waiver a company or passengers sign, the media attention and court of public opinion will always pressure governments to do something in high profile cases like this.

[ataradov]

Was not the contact lost half way down? They have not reached the bottom at that point, so I doubt they are caught on something. And if there is structural damage, it will just fill with water and sink.

[ataradov]

It doesn't matter what waiver a company or passengers sign, the media attention and court of public opinion will always pressure governments to do something in high profile cases like this.

From what I can gather, public mostly does not care if billionaires drown.

They need to do like SpaceX and get one good person on board, so that people would care.

[EEVblog]

This thing I'd have thought would be a lot easier to find, surely they know approximately where it is? I mean don't they drop it into the water directly over the wreck site and dive more or less straight down?

Yes, a simple search pattern centred on the location where it went down should be able to find it.
I've read that the search crews are entirely confident they will find it if it's on the surface.

[pickle9000]

The loss of communication happened at about 4/5'ths of the way down not on the bottom. This was an expected issue and had happened before. That is the reason the surface vessel did not report to the coast guard at the time. In fact they waited until long after the expected surface time before reporting.

[EEVblog]

[ataradov]

Oh, we are hiring interns, not because they are cheap, but because we want to inspire them. That's a new twist.

And one thing I don't really get is why not test it more, may be even in autonomous mode. It is not like each dive is expensive once it is designed.

[EEVblog]

And one thing I don't really get is why not test it more, may be even in autonomous mode. It is not like each dive is expensive once it is designed.

There have been quite a few successful previous trips.
I suspect they got lucky and this time the luck ran out.

[ataradov]

There have been quite a few successful previous trips.

But it never actually went down the full depth.

I'm not sure where this Titanic footage comes from, but it could not be from that sub. Or other reports are wrong.

The only previous trip seems to be their CEO alone going down 3/4 of the way.

Ok, it looks like they went the full way down at least once.

[pickle9000]

Some good reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OceanGate,_Inc.

[floobydust]

I recognize what happens when a CEO is above safety and regulatory and anything else that says "no" to what they are doing, or adds delays or test costs. It's a form of hell.
-Hire young engineers and techs, new grads "motivated, innovative" because they don't know due to lack of experience, and they can be pushed around to cut corners and want to please the CEO.
-Outsource to consultants and leave a critical number such as design depth/safety factor low and it falls between the cracks, literally.
-Save money by buying cheap hardware. The joystick is fine if included in the FMEA. Too cheap for manual switches though, a 1 button control panel?
-Add some new technology, the latest and greatest for the CEO's ego and marketing purposes, and to give the illusion the project team is full of SME's.

"OceanGate’s patented, real time, Acoustic Hull Health Monitoring System provide a robust safety factor." ... listening for the sounds of carbon fiber threads breaking I found US 11,119,071 but it's a kindergarten patent. It apparently gives a nice little alert the hull is failing. As the video mentioned, carbon fiber just shatters when it fails. Not like jeans that rip and tear.  I'll bet it doesn't even work, I see no sensors on the interior.
Data on carbon fiber fatigue I think is relatively little, compared to aviation having tons of data on aluminum.

"OceanGate will take advantage of lessons learned during the construction of its carbon-hulled Titan submersible, which was originally built for Titanic journeys. Rush said tests that were conducted at the Deep Ocean Test Facility in Annapolis, Md., revealed that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” As a result, the hull’s depth rating was reduced to 3,000 meters.

“Not enough to get to the Titanic,” Rush said." source

[pickle9000]

Interview with friend of the pilot. Sounds like a pro.

[NiHaoMike]

I recognize what happens when a CEO is above safety and regulatory and anything else that says "no" to what they are doing, or adds delays or test costs.

He's in his own creation so he'll either win a Darwin Award or get close to getting one. Hoping it's the latter and he learns valuable lessons.

[pickle9000]

It looks as if there was a redesign after the initial testing. There may be some confusion in reporting because of this.

[floobydust]

It looks as if there was a redesign after the initial testing. There may be some confusion in reporting because of this.

Okay Mr. cheap and slimy CEO, what does this mean?  Toss the existing hull in the garbage and make a new one... or do "repairs"?

edit: "You know, at some point, safety just is pure waste," said Rush. "I mean, if you just want to be safe, don't get out of bed. Don't get in your car. Don't do anything. At some point, you're going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by breaking the rules."

edit2: From the lawsuit, it's obvious OceanGate is pure shit:

"At the meeting, Lochridge discovered why he had been denied access to the viewport information from the Engineering department —the viewport at the forward of the submersible was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. Lochridge learned that the viewport manufacturer would only certify to a depth of 1,300 meters due to the experimental design of the viewport supplied by OceanGate, which was out of the Pressure Vessels for Human Occupancy (“PVHO”) standards. OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters."

"Lochridge primarily expressed concern regarding the lack of non-destructive testing performed on the hull of the Titan. Lochridge was repeatedly told that no scan of the hull or Bond Line could be done to check for delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull. Lochridge was told that no form of equipment existed to perform such a test, and OceanGate instead would rely solely on their acoustic monitoring system that they were going to install in the submersible to detect the start of hull break down when the submersible was about to fail.
Lochridge again expressed concern that this was problematic because this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail —often milliseconds before an implosion— and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull."

[pickle9000]

By definition OceanGate is out there to profit. I personally think they went too far stretching pennies. Having said that i still want to see the design and processes they used.

[SiliconWizard]

Maybe it's time for yet another TItanic movie?
This time, it would be something that would involve more "modern" topics, such as inclusivity.
Hundreds of people dying on a sinking ship, with dramatic special effects, yes, but maybe around a love story between transgender people, rather than this definitely old and patriarchal love story between Jack and Rose. Bonus points if the characters show deep concern about the disastrous environmental effects of such a large ship sinking into the ocean while the drama is unfolding.

[coppercone2]

thats so on topic for a thread about a current crisis 

But uh, whatever that is aside, I am extremely suspicious of those skids on the side of the ship. I feel like that is not a good feature for drag and it also can get caught. It looks like a helicopter but those avoid anything but the nicest of landing pads and getting stuck on the ground is usually NOT the problem. That skid can get stuck in something. I hope those come off with explosive bolts or something if they are near anything but totally flat. Things with feet like that always get stuck on something. And I think that place is haunted too, its a bad idea to go there.

[EEVblog]

By definition OceanGate is out there to profit. I personally think they went too far stretching pennies. Having said that i still want to see the design and processes they used.

The more I think about this, the more concerned I get.
$250k a pop with at most 4 paying customers per trip was never going to pay the bills, surely?
And then factor in a new designed carbon fibre hull and the cost cutting court case for the window. And what looks like a completely automated control system?
I've designed stuff to go 300m to the ocean bottom and that's hard enough. Near 4000m is so insane, that every i must be dotted and every t crossed. Margin upon margin.