Strange Company rules and manipulations

[james_s]

I worked for 10 years in the design lab of a company that made good quality switch mode power supplies. On a daily basis we would make engineering decisions that affected fire and electrical safety, the sort of thing that if done wrong would have possibly caused the company to get sued into oblivion. Despite this, we were not trusted to have a key to the stationery cupboard to get a pen.

Penny-wise Pound-foolishness is an internal expense that most managers will never understand. It shows up at all levels of corporate structure. Cheap pens for expensive engineers. Cheap oscilloscopes for expensive projects. Cheap security for expensive buildings.

One place I worked wouldn't give me badge access to a lab where some equipment I used semi-regularly to do my job was stored. They said they were concerned that too many people had access to the lab. Well ok, but if you can't trust me not to steal equipment or whatever then why do you still have me working there? Whatever, I just bugged other people to let me in whenever I needed to check out or return stuff.

[james_s]

And stupid open plan offices that save a few hundred bucks a a month per head on real estate, while producing a 20% drop in productivity on someone who is paid many thousands a month. Absolutely mind bogglingly stupid.

They're virtually all like that now, and it's probably more than a 20% drop, at least for people who are coding and doing other things that require concentration. The only reason I'm able to tolerate it is that I can work from home several days a week so that's when I get most of my work done. It's always some non-technical extrovert who decides the open plans are wonderful. They always buy into the BS buzzword "collaboration" too, I've come to hate that word. There are situations where it's helpful to sit around a table and work on something together but the majority of the time everyone puts on headphones and tunes out so they can get work done. Study after study shows that employees hate open layout offices, face to face communication drops and online messaging greatly increases and yet the benefits are still touted as the fad continues to spread. It's a fad like any other, I'm hopeful that eventually someone will reinvent private offices.

[Tomorokoshi]

And stupid open plan offices that save a few hundred bucks a a month per head on real estate, while producing a 20% drop in productivity on someone who is paid many thousands a month. Absolutely mind bogglingly stupid.

They're virtually all like that now, and it's probably more than a 20% drop, at least for people who are coding and doing other things that require concentration. The only reason I'm able to tolerate it is that I can work from home several days a week so that's when I get most of my work done. It's always some non-technical extrovert who decides the open plans are wonderful. They always buy into the BS buzzword "collaboration" too, I've come to hate that word. There are situations where it's helpful to sit around a table and work on something together but the majority of the time everyone puts on headphones and tunes out so they can get work done. Study after study shows that employees hate open layout offices, face to face communication drops and online messaging greatly increases and yet the benefits are still touted as the fad continues to spread. It's a fad like any other, I'm hopeful that eventually someone will reinvent private offices.

The "open layout" problem of not having doors was already identified by the time Peopleware came out in 1987. It hasn't gotten any better.

As for "collaboration", I present to you the ironically named, "Agile".

[ajb]

Women dressing provocatively is an invitation for men in general... Instincts cannot be controlled by brains, or else the population would not grow exponentially in this world...

Fuuuuuuck this.

As a man, are you no better than a wild animal? When you are hungry, do you run down the nearest prey animal and devour it raw? If you have to piss in the middle of a meeting do you just whip it out and let loose?  No? Why is it that you can control certain instincts, but when a woman wears a low cut shirt suddenly all bets are off?  The whole bullshit 'men just can't be expected to control their urges around attractive women' thing is inherently stupid, insulting to men, and worst of all, directly endangers women.  It is nothing more than an excuse for bad behavior that should not be tolerated. 

One may use his intelligence to overcome instincts if trained hard, but the natural responses should not be curbed. It may lead to long term deviant behaviour among people.

You know what leads to 'deviant behavior'? A culture where sexual harassment is tolerated, where responsibility for harassment and assault is shifted to the victims, and where people are not held accountable for failure to control their 'natural responses'.

[EEEnthusiast]

Women dressing provocatively is an invitation for men in general... Instincts cannot be controlled by brains, or else the population would not grow exponentially in this world...

Fuuuuuuck this.

As a man, are you no better than a wild animal? When you are hungry, do you run down the nearest prey animal and devour it raw? If you have to piss in the middle of a meeting do you just whip it out and let loose?  No? Why is it that you can control certain instincts, but when a woman wears a low cut shirt suddenly all bets are off?  The whole bullshit 'men just can't be expected to control their urges around attractive women' thing is inherently stupid, insulting to men, and worst of all, directly endangers women.  It is nothing more than an excuse for bad behavior that should not be tolerated. 

One may use his intelligence to overcome instincts if trained hard, but the natural responses should not be curbed. It may lead to long term deviant behaviour among people.

You know what leads to 'deviant behavior'? A culture where sexual harassment is tolerated, where responsibility for harassment and assault is shifted to the victims, and where people are not held accountable for failure to control their 'natural responses'.

It is proven experimentally that when men are around pretty/hot women, their intelligence level gets diminished and cannot make accurate judgements. Casinos employing hot women is one of the reasons to exploit this. Are you going to shut down all casinos, because they use this behaviour of men to their advantage? Or tell them to have a less revealing decent dress code. 

I am not supporting this kind of behaviour, but just stating the facts... somethings are hard wired in human beings to support evolution. Just by artificially creating rules, those hard wiring cannot be undone.

[EEEnthusiast]

One such experiment
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4921690.stm

[BravoV]

Its cultural and believe different, nor each sides will have common ground, and this argument is going no where.

To be honest, sometimes and "personally", I find that certain beautiful women's eyes are sexy. 

So back to your arguments, I guess you are one of those strong believers that female/women should must dress like these.





Ok, enough, I am out of here.

[EEEnthusiast]

Discussion closed....

[tooki]

And stupid open plan offices that save a few hundred bucks a a month per head on real estate, while producing a 20% drop in productivity on someone who is paid many thousands a month. Absolutely mind bogglingly stupid.

They're virtually all like that now, and it's probably more than a 20% drop, at least for people who are coding and doing other things that require concentration. The only reason I'm able to tolerate it is that I can work from home several days a week so that's when I get most of my work done. It's always some non-technical extrovert who decides the open plans are wonderful. They always buy into the BS buzzword "collaboration" too, I've come to hate that word. There are situations where it's helpful to sit around a table and work on something together but the majority of the time everyone puts on headphones and tunes out so they can get work done. Study after study shows that employees hate open layout offices, face to face communication drops and online messaging greatly increases and yet the benefits are still touted as the fad continues to spread. It's a fad like any other, I'm hopeful that eventually someone will reinvent private offices.

1000% agree with everything you said. It’s strange how no amount of counter evidence seems to stem the flow.

And then the move to “hot desking”, where you don’t even get an assigned desk, but instead have to work like a nomad, looking for an empty desk like a student trying to find a free computer in a library... mind bogglingly stupid, when you consider the time wasted on desk setup/teardown every day, not to mention things like how chair adjustment and desk height need to be carefully adjusted for proper ergonomics, and that can’t happen if you’re at a different desk every day.



At the web/usability agency I used to work at, my boss was one of those people who could write an email while discussing an unrelated topic with you verbally. She could not wrap her head around my need to focus on one thing at a time, and would barge in with non-urgent BS, breaking my concentration. As if having other people’s conversations around weren’t bad enough...

[tooki]

It is proven experimentally that when men are around pretty/hot women, their intelligence level gets diminished and cannot make accurate judgements. Casinos employing hot women is one of the reasons to exploit this. Are you going to shut down all casinos, because they use this behaviour of men to their advantage? Or tell them to have a less revealing decent dress code. 

I am not supporting this kind of behaviour, but just stating the facts... somethings are hard wired in human beings to support evolution. Just by artificially creating rules, those hard wiring cannot be undone.

You've basically been arguing that men cannot, and should not, control their urges. That’s complete rubbish.

Nobody is saying that biology doesn’t influence us, it does. But we also aren’t animals who cannot control themselves in any way. Heck, you can even train many animals in self-control, as the pictures of dogs with bacon on their snouts, waiting patiently until given a command, show us.

Discussion closed....

Boo hoo, cry me a river... if you express troglodytic views on sexual harassment, you can’t be surprised if people call you out on it.

[capt bullshot]

At the web/usability agency I used to work at, my boss was one of those people who could write an email while discussing an unrelated topic with you verbally. She could not wrap her head around my need to focus on one thing at a time, and would barge in with non-urgent BS, breaking my concentration. As if having other people’s conversations around weren’t bad enough...

There's some people around (like the mother-in-law) that I can phone while browsing the internet or whatever. But don't expect me to remember what she said ...

Otherwise fully agree on open office plans and so on. Sometimes my subjectively felt productivity loss due to all these disturbances is 100% (or even more, since sometimes I start to hate all the crap around me at some point).

[cgroen]

It is proven experimentally that when men are around pretty/hot women, their intelligence level gets diminished and cannot make accurate judgements. Casinos employing hot women is one of the reasons to exploit this. Are you going to shut down all casinos, because they use this behaviour of men to their advantage? Or tell them to have a less revealing decent dress code. 

I am not supporting this kind of behaviour, but just stating the facts... somethings are hard wired in human beings to support evolution. Just by artificially creating rules, those hard wiring cannot be undone.

You've basically been arguing that men cannot, and should not, control their urges. That’s complete rubbish.

Nobody is saying that biology doesn’t influence us, it does. But we also aren’t animals who cannot control themselves in any way. Heck, you can even train many animals in self-control, as the pictures of dogs with bacon on their snouts, waiting patiently until given a command, show us.

Discussion closed....

Boo hoo, cry me a river... if you express troglodytic views on sexual harassment, you can’t be surprised if people call you out on it.

In certain areas of the world, I'm afraid this is the case
Unfortunately more and more persons of this belief are being imported to our country here at the moment, with a tragic rise of problems 
ITS NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT. PERIOD!

[tooki]

In certain areas of the world, I'm afraid this is the case
Unfortunately more and more persons of this belief are being imported to our country here at the moment, with a tragic rise of problems 
ITS NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT. PERIOD!

I’m half Latin American, so I’ve (sadly) had some exposure to cultures that are more chauvinistic than I prefer.

But the fact that it’s cultural just proves that the behavior is still something that is taught and learned, as opposed to an insurmountable genetic non-negotiable.

[cgroen]

In certain areas of the world, I'm afraid this is the case
Unfortunately more and more persons of this belief are being imported to our country here at the moment, with a tragic rise of problems 
ITS NEVER THE VICTIMS FAULT. PERIOD!

I’m half Latin American, so I’ve (sadly) had some exposure to cultures that are more chauvinistic than I prefer.

But the fact that it’s cultural just proves that the behavior is still something that is taught and learned, as opposed to an insurmountable genetic non-negotiable.

Totally agree, it is of course something that is learned, kids mimic their parents (in all parts of the world).

[David Hess]

It is proven experimentally that when men are around pretty/hot women, their intelligence level gets diminished and cannot make accurate judgements. Casinos employing hot women is one of the reasons to exploit this. Are you going to shut down all casinos, because they use this behaviour of men to their advantage? Or tell them to have a less revealing decent dress code.

https://xkcd.com/231/

[BravoV]

This is just an example from CNN, there are so many similarity from others news agencies as well -> CNN search results , just scroll thru the list as it has so many pages, and watch the date of each related entry to see the frequency.

... again  ... latest entry at CNN -> Outcry over reports of mass assault at New Delhi women's college

... "The men barged onto the Gargi College campus in South Delhi last Thursday, on the final day of a school festival, allegedly molesting and sexually assaulting the female students en masse .." 

"In Gargi College, the miscreants busted the walls and molested the college girls. Despite such a serious matter, the police and college administration present on the spot have not taken any action yet!"

Pretty sure majority of foreigners don't have a clue hows a "norm" situation there.

[krish2487]

It is proven experimentally that when men are around pretty/hot women, their intelligence level gets diminished and cannot make accurate judgements. Casinos employing hot women is one of the reasons to exploit this. Are you going to shut down all casinos, because they use this behaviour of men to their advantage? Or tell them to have a less revealing decent dress code. 

I am not supporting this kind of behaviour, but just stating the facts... somethings are hard wired in human beings to support evolution. Just by artificially creating rules, those hard wiring cannot be undone.

You are not stating facts, what you are doing in normalizing and justifying such behavior.
If what you said was any small bit true... society would not have any moral or behavioral fabric. There would not be any code of conduct that makes any man / woman behave acceptably. All of us would just resort to our basest animal instincts.

Further, the reason those rules came into existence is because some other human being proposed so.. The fact that you (as in a figure of speech) did not come up with those rules does not make them less relevant, applicable or important. They are certainly not artificial or external.

As others have repeatedly stated, its not that people are not influenced by biology / likes / wants.. its how they choose to act on it.

Just for arguments sake, if the statement above was true, then casinos should be filled only with men. lecherous, dangerous, touchy feely men...
Men might comprise of a rather sizeable percentage of casinos.. but they certainly are not all of the population.

But then again, looking at your comments and posts in this thread, it rather looks like the only common thread among all the misfortunes you have been through is you, yourself. Maybe a  long session of introspection is in order...

[EEEnthusiast]

Well, I do not support any immoral behaviour or acts by men or women. I was just trying to put a scientific explanation to the behaviour. If the posts seem offensive or in bad light, just grab a beer and chill...

[krish2487]

I ll give you a perfectly valid, scientific explanation - "They are being immature assholes". period!

[Brumby]

It may be a cultural thing - but you just don't get it.

Here's a simple example with a flawed argument:

Yes inviting women for drinks may be really risky. Not inviting them when everyone goes for a round of drinks would amount to gender discrimination as well.
Sticky situation...

The flaw is very simple - and very obvious.  There is no stickiness here unless someone acts stupidly.  You are describing two entirely different scenarios.  Having drinks with a single person is completely, utterly and totally different to a group get together.

I was going to spell this out in more detail, but I fear it could be a waste of my efforts.  Other members have made statements that make it clear I don't need to clarify anything for their benefit - but you.....  You seem to be fishing for validation of your attitudes.  I don't know a lot of people around the world, but I do know a few in Australia, NZ, USA, UK, Canada as well as a couple scattered around Europe - and from my interactions with them, none of them would share your thinking

[EEEnthusiast]

I'm out....

[krish2487]

It may be a cultural thing - but you just don't get it.

Definitely not a cultural thing. I m from india and I dont share his beliefs.

I was going to spell this out in more detail, but I fear it could be a waste of my efforts.  Other members have made statements that make it clear I don't need to clarify anything for their benefit - but you.....  You seem to be fishing for validation of your attitudes.  I don't know a lot of people around the world, but I do know a few in Australia, NZ, USA, UK, Canada as well as a couple scattered around Europe - and from my interactions with them, none of them would share your thinking

sighs in agreement!!!

[Brumby]

It may be a cultural thing - but you just don't get it.

Definitely not a cultural thing. I m from india and I dont share his beliefs.

Thank you for that clarification.

I was going to spell this out in more detail, but I fear it could be a waste of my efforts.  Other members have made statements that make it clear I don't need to clarify anything for their benefit - but you.....  You seem to be fishing for validation of your attitudes.  I don't know a lot of people around the world, but I do know a few in Australia, NZ, USA, UK, Canada as well as a couple scattered around Europe - and from my interactions with them, none of them would share your thinking

sighs in agreement!!!

Yes ... a sigh is appropriate.

[Ranayna]

Trying to get this back on topic

Recently a, in my opinion, very odd rule is being enforced in the office...

I should preface this with the information that I am in IT. Electronics is only a very (very) small niche of what we are doing. Mainly it is using Arduinos and similar to build cheap environment sensors and stuff like that. But also noteworthy is, that my company has also a large electronics department including pick and place machines and the whole shebang...

Anyway, the new rule is: If you are colorblind, you are not allowed to solder anymore. At all. As far as I know, this is a company-wide rule. This does not affect anyone in the IT department, but I have to wonder what blew up due to a soldering error 

Are such colorblind rules still common? Are they even allowed anymore?

[EEEnthusiast]

Colour blind people may have issues in PCB layout with multilayers. Imagine a 8 layer board and the colours RED and GREEN look the same to him. It may be error prone.
But soldering has nothing to do with colour blindness.