Author Topic: Sputnik Declassified  (Read 18665 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Homer J SimpsonTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1231
  • Country: us
Sputnik Declassified
« on: June 08, 2015, 10:44:05 pm »
Nice documentary.

 

Offline Mr.B

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1245
  • Country: nz
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2015, 12:05:26 am »
Fascinating. Thanks for sharing.
Where are we going, and why are we in a handbasket?
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8542
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2015, 12:26:48 am »
what a misleading title. i was hoping to see schematics...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline Richard Crowley

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4319
  • Country: us
  • KJ7YLK
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 12:30:52 am »
what a misleading title. i was hoping to see schematics...
Schematics of what?  It was a big dumb aluminum sphere with a primitive RF beacon. The batteries were flat in 3 weeks.
 

Offline hamster_nz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2808
  • Country: nz
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 12:33:59 am »
what a misleading title. i was hoping to see schematics...

For your viewing pleasure:



from http://aa1tj.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/sputnik-1-radio-beacon-schematic-found.html
Gaze not into the abyss, lest you become recognized as an abyss domain expert, and they expect you keep gazing into the damn thing.
 

Offline BennVenn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 160
  • Country: au
    • BennVenn's site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 12:41:54 am »
I didn't think it was a CW transmitter. Didn't it transmit a tone?
 

Offline tyguy2

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Country: us
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 12:44:30 am »
Indeed, it did.
[Sarcastic comment] clever joke [/sarcastic comment]
Bitcoin:
12oV4dWZCAia7vXBzQzBF9wAt1U3JWZkpk
 

Offline BennVenn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 160
  • Country: au
    • BennVenn's site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 12:45:53 am »
Can't view YouTube at work :-( but that schematic is an RF generator and power amp. No modulation in the schematic, no tone.
 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 12:46:23 am »
Now who can figure out if that schematic is real?

Or better yet, make equivalent using modern components?
Alex
 

Offline tyguy2

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Country: us
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2015, 12:47:08 am »
Sounds like a challenge.  :box:
[Sarcastic comment] clever joke [/sarcastic comment]
Bitcoin:
12oV4dWZCAia7vXBzQzBF9wAt1U3JWZkpk
 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2015, 12:48:37 am »
Actually "modulation" might have been a result of that thing tumbling around randomly.
Alex
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 27495
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 12:49:21 am »
what a misleading title. i was hoping to see schematics...
Probably just 2 NE555s to make the beep-beep-beep signal  :-DD
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tyguy2

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 303
  • Country: us
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 12:50:27 am »
 :clap:
[Sarcastic comment] clever joke [/sarcastic comment]
Bitcoin:
12oV4dWZCAia7vXBzQzBF9wAt1U3JWZkpk
 

Offline BennVenn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 160
  • Country: au
    • BennVenn's site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 01:05:14 am »
"A one-watt radio transmitter emitted signals lasting 0.4 seconds on the wavelength of 7 and 15 meters. If temperature onboard the satellite would exceed 50 degrees C or fall below 0 degrees C, or if the pressure inside fell below 0.35 kilograms per square centimeter, thermal and barometric switches would be activated changing the length of the radio signal sent by the satellite."

 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2015, 01:22:20 am »
So the interrupted signal comes from external circuitry connected to the "manipulator"  input of the schematic (+90V level). So this is not exactly a complete schematic. Both transmitters were built using the same schematic with generators tuned to 20 MHz and 40 MHz.
Alex
 

Offline calexanian

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1881
  • Country: us
    • Alex-Tronix
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2015, 04:59:10 am »
They probably just used turn signal flashers or something like that to modulate it and a temperature and pressure switches to change the blink rate so to speak. Thats what I would do anyways. Russian manufacturing policy. Just good enough and not a bit more. That would be a luxury and wastes the resources of the motherland! HA!
Charles Alexanian
Alex-Tronix Control Systems
 

Offline BennVenn

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 160
  • Country: au
    • BennVenn's site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2015, 05:34:43 am »
You might be onto something there, the old blinkers used a nichrome heater and a bi-metalic strip. Probably change flash rate with temp anyway.
 

Offline PA0PBZ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5174
  • Country: nl
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2015, 06:53:19 am »
Both transmitters were built using the same schematic with generators tuned to 20 MHz and 40 MHz.

Or it was just the 2nd harmonic.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2015, 07:02:27 am »
The article specifically says that there were two identical transmitters. I can read Russian.

20 MHz was selected because they had a receiver for this frequency, which could do accurate location. 40 MHz was selected because there were a lot of receivers capable of receiving signals of this frequency. So basically they ensured that at least they can receive something with high probability, and if everything goes right, they would also be able to locate it with greater degree of accuracy.
Alex
 

Offline PA0PBZ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5174
  • Country: nl
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2015, 07:09:59 am »
The article specifically says that there were two identical transmitters. I can read Russian.

I can't compete with that, I was just looking at this quote:

"A one-watt radio transmitter emitted signals lasting 0.4 seconds on the wavelength of 7 and 15 meters."

it says "transmitter", not transmitters.

Quote
20 MHz was selected because they had a receiver for this frequency, which could do accurate location. 40 MHz was selected because there were a lot of receivers capable of receiving signals of this frequency. So basically they ensured that at least they can receive something with high probability, and if everything goes right, they would also be able to locate it with greater degree of accuracy.

You are probably right then.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2015, 07:14:09 am »
The article is a bit vague on how they were controlled, but it is my understanding that they were alternating two of them every 0.4 seconds (the number is not actually mentioned in the article, but the fact that they were alternated is there).

It looks like they did it t conserve power. The power supply was not good enough to power both of them at the same time. Remember, bulbs, heating filaments, and all this good stuff.
Alex
 

Offline G7PSK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3863
  • Country: gb
  • It is hot until proved not.
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2015, 08:04:53 am »
The tone would change due to Doppler shift from the tumbling as well as from the orbiting speed which would be very high due to the low orbit.
 

Offline Homer J SimpsonTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1231
  • Country: us
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2015, 02:54:37 pm »
I think the thing that got me the most was the attitude and style of the engineers on the von Braun team.

They are ordered not to work on a satellite program so they do it any way in secret.

They have an inspection from the Army to make sure they are not working on satellites and the one guy hides it in the trunk of his car. Also works from his garage at home.  :)

They want to have a rocket ready to go so they say they need one for, "testing of long term storage".

This stuff is great. If they had been giving approval the first satellite would have been launched in 1956 not 1957.

 When you think that's just 10 years after the end of WWII its pretty amazing.

 
 

Offline German_EE

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2399
  • Country: de
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2015, 03:31:57 pm »

Schematics of what?  It was a big dumb aluminum sphere with a primitive RF beacon. The batteries were flat in 3 weeks.

Yes Richard, quite.

First artificial satellite - Russian
First lifeform in space - Russian
First astronaut in space - Russian
First spacewalk - Russian
First space station - Russian
First landing on another planet - Russian

Plus of course the USA now uses Russian launch facilities and vehicles to ferry their astronauts to the International Space Station and Russian engines in some of their unmanned launch vehicles.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 

Offline ataradov

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11537
  • Country: us
    • Personal site
Re: Sputnik Declassified
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2015, 04:05:58 pm »
What is most impressive is the limited budget and resources they had. The US spent trillions in today's money on their space programme just to compete.
Not really. The entire country (and the union of countries) was one big military factory. Remember, planned economy, so every engineer of a certain grade gets paid the same amount of money. How convenient this is, you have to work, otherwise you go to jail, and if you do work, you can't get competitive salary. It was not a lot of money either, but it was for the best, there is no consumer stuff to buy anyway. Who needs vacuum cleaners and refrigerators if we are building rockets and communism?

Also, the price of failure in the US was being fired or demoted, the price of failure in the USSR on high level project was being sent to Siberia (or reassigned to a new work place, as they were saying). And you could not really pick a place where to live in the USSR, after getting your degree, you were assigned to a certain factory, where you work for the rest of your life.

I'm not denying, there were some brilliant people out there, but saying that they did not spend a lot of money is not correct, they basically sold the country for that achievement.

And also, the reason why all those things are so well-designed, is that designers knew that they will be built by a bunch of drunk idiots, who don't give a s**t. So everything is over-engineered, because if rocket fails, an assembly line worker, who did not feel like using a torque wrench that day, will not get blamed, but designers will.
Alex
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf