software for work - they might be getting serious

[Simon]

So after just dropping on my lap as though nothing was an air conditioning unit ECU design they have now decided to get serious about electronics now that they have me to "use"

So I pointed out that they need to consider software and the way information is documented (trying to put a BOM onto an "item list" designed for radiator packs is "interesting"). Well I'm quite happy with kicad, it has it's little quirks but I'm familiar with that. But is there any "professional" packages that don't cost the earth that are really worth my while ?

[Majorstrain]

You might look at DesignSpark 4.0. http://www.designspark.com/
Its free for commercial use and it takes in Eagle libraries as well
Be aware that it is "powered by" RS Components and you do have to register it.
Cheers,
Phil

[Simon]

I take it that it has vastly improved since it's bumpy launch.

[Simon]

can design spark do autorouting ?

[tom66]

Do not use an autorouter for anything short of a 1400 pin BGA package. Even then it's better manually routed.

[Simon]

for the simple slow stuff I'll be doing autorouting won't be a problem. I generally do "interactive auto routing", i will position my main parts as they need positioning and lay down any large power tracks, then let the autorouter have its way, then I look at the way it has routed and see if I can optimise my parts placement, i do any part move arounds and rerun the autorouter, I'll keep doing that until I'm happy, make a 5 hour job a 30 minute one.

[digsys]

I've used Proteus (www.labcenter.com) since V1 (app 20 yrs). Extremely easy to use and powerful. All the auto features if you like.
Also had to use most the others for customer projects, but never found one I like better.

[PuterGeek]

But is there any "professional" packages that don't cost the earth that are really worth my while ?

It depends on your definition of high cost.

Altium Designer is good software but they are pushing it as subscription software and trying desperately to force you into that model. They also aren't focusing much on the PCB side so new features are mostly FPGA or the like.

DIPtrace is reasonably priced and works fairly well.

I wouldn't recommend Autotrax DEX or Eagle.

I don't have any experience with the Cadance or Mentor offerings but for the price one would hope they work well.

Hope that helps.

[Simon]

They are not interested in the likes of altium, they don't want to spend that much and we won't be touching FPGA, pics and coic packages are the most complex we will ever go. I think i'll stick with KiCAD for now.

[Kremmen]

I freely admit to not being impartial, but one more vote to Diptrace from me. Not only has it managed to do everything i have really needed, but the Novarm guys keep actively developing it and listen to their customers, as witnessed by the discussions also here in eevblog forum.
Pricewise much more reasonable compared to the high end packages and while it lacks some of the high end features, nothing critical is missing as far as i have noted. At least i have managed to create several medium complex boards without difficulties (like ~500 pads, ~200 holes, vias and nets). Diptrace of course can do a lot bigger.

[sacherjj]

If the company is willing to buy any level of Diptrace that will do everything you need, I would jump, run, push, shove, and do anything else needed to make that happen.  It is SO much easier to use.

[Simon]

hm, I'll take a look, i did dable but stuck with kicad

[djsb]

Also don't forget that Kicad can be used with the excellent Freeroute autorouter as well. I do ALL my boards using this Autorouter now and then tweak the layout afterwards. Also python scripting and templates are on the horizon.

David.

[poptones]

I've tried figuring out kicad, I'm still baffled by it. It seems so convoluted to me I've yet to lay out a board with it. I can't even figure out how to get the schematic to put the parts on a board... hell, I don't even see how to draw the board outline!

Perhaps not surprisingly, the easiest board layout tool I've found was one of those free board layout tools that are married to a board supplier. Problem is the format is locked away, I can't produce gerber files from it.

[tom66]

for the simple slow stuff I'll be doing autorouting won't be a problem. I generally do "interactive auto routing", i will position my main parts as they need positioning and lay down any large power tracks, then let the autorouter have its way, then I look at the way it has routed and see if I can optimise my parts placement, i do any part move arounds and rerun the autorouter, I'll keep doing that until I'm happy, make a 5 hour job a 30 minute one.

And you will waste more time setting the darn thing up than you ever did manually routing it. 5 hours later you'll have a poorly routed board.

Also, something that has saved my bacon (multiple) times is routing out a board manually and realising "hey this isn't right", checking the schematic, checking the pin out, and then realising that I've forgotten a Vdd pin or something.

[peter.mitchell]

I have to say, as a complete beginner with PCB layout software I found DIPtrace infinitely easier than KiCad to get started and do the simple things.

[Simon]

Also don't forget that Kicad can be used with the excellent Freeroute autorouter as well. I do ALL my boards using this Autorouter now and then tweak the layout afterwards. Also python scripting and templates are on the horizon.

David.

Yes Indeed I use that autorouter

[Simon]

for the simple slow stuff I'll be doing autorouting won't be a problem. I generally do "interactive auto routing", i will position my main parts as they need positioning and lay down any large power tracks, then let the autorouter have its way, then I look at the way it has routed and see if I can optimise my parts placement, i do any part move arounds and rerun the autorouter, I'll keep doing that until I'm happy, make a 5 hour job a 30 minute one.

And you will waste more time setting the darn thing up than you ever did manually routing it. 5 hours later you'll have a poorly routed board.

Also, something that has saved my bacon (multiple) times is routing out a board manually and realising "hey this isn't right", checking the schematic, checking the pin out, and then realising that I've forgotten a Vdd pin or something.

Has never taken me too long so far, I don't do large boards so it takes seconds and I get a view of what is going on and can ajust positioning accordingly