Shenzhen: The Silicon Valley of Hardware - WIRED Documentary

[Rick Law]

...
Furthermore, China had a rich and sophisticated culture back when Nctnico's ancestors (and mine) were living in mud huts and banging rocks together for entertainment.  There's a very long list of cultural and technological achievements that first saw the light of day in China. For instance the puddling process for Iron was used in China by the beginning of the Han dynasty (202 BCE) and was re-invented in England in 1783 but, hey, what's nearly two millennia for the West to catch up?
...
...
They just have to avoid making the mistakes that the West has made and, sadly, on current evidence they seem to be working quite hard at repeating the West's mistakes. (e.g. By embracing the worst aspects of capitalism, China seems to have created a property bubble that looks to burst soon. That is something it would have been easy to avoid [in a centralist command economy] by learning from a little observation of Western economies over the last few decades).

China also invented the Crossbow about 1000-1300 years before such technology was seen in the west.  Their Terracotta Army of clay solders show they knew 2000 years ago how to standardize manufacturing and applied assembly line techniques - 2000 years ago.

But, that is eons ago.  What is important is tomorrow and the days after.

Our living standard is defined by our ability to create value.  What is valuable in our world will be influenced by the Chinese whether we like it or not.  A job that can be out-sourced cheaper means that job have less value - cheaper by definition equals less value; whether we like it or not.  We just have to adept, and find another way to create value. 

Fasten your seat belts.  Changes are coming.

[dannyf]

There's a very long list of cultural and technological achievements that first saw the light of day in China.

what's the point of enlightening the un-enlightenable?

the state of affairs in europe today speaks volume about the effectiveness of "hundreds of years of enlightenment",

[nctnico]

True but China is lagging far behind on a cultural and political scale.

Thats an argument I heard several times. But why should they strive for our western world capitalism?

Furthermore, China had a rich and sophisticated culture back when Nctnico's ancestors (and mine) were living in mud huts and banging rocks together for entertainment.  There's a very long list of cultural and technological achievements that first saw the light of day in China. For instance the puddling process for Iron was used in China by the beginning of the Han dynasty (202 BCE) and was re-invented in England in 1783 but, hey, what's nearly two millennia for the West to catch up?

You are forgetting the Roman empire which also was technologically very advanced. When in Rome visit the Pantheon and you'll be walking under a 2000 year old unreinforced concrete dome. The fact is that without proper care technology, skill and knowledge are easely lost.
I recently watched a documentary about the Chinese wall and it took quite a bit of science to recover the recipe for the cement they used on the wall so they could rebuild parts of it without it falling apart in a couple of decades. Oh, and the secret ingredient turned out to be rice. Also China has seen a fair amount of bloodshed in the past centuries (Dzjengis Khan for example).

[edavid]

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

ESP8266
WS2812
CNC3020 and friends

[Cerebus]

True but China is lagging far behind on a cultural and political scale.

Thats an argument I heard several times. But why should they strive for our western world capitalism?

Furthermore, China had a rich and sophisticated culture back when Nctnico's ancestors (and mine) were living in mud huts and banging rocks together for entertainment.  There's a very long list of cultural and technological achievements that first saw the light of day in China. For instance the puddling process for Iron was used in China by the beginning of the Han dynasty (202 BCE) and was re-invented in England in 1783 but, hey, what's nearly two millennia for the West to catch up?

You are forgetting the Roman empire which also was technologically very advanced. When in Rome visit the Pantheon and you'll be walking under a 2000 year old unreinforced concrete dome. The fact is that without proper care technology, skill and knowledge are easely lost.
I recently watched a documentary about the Chinese wall and it took quite a bit of science to recover the recipe for the cement they used on the wall so they could rebuild parts of it without it falling apart in a couple of decades. Oh, and the secret ingredient turned out to be rice. Also China has seen a fair amount of bloodshed in the past centuries (Dzjengis Khan for example).

In case you hadn't noticed, the culture and technology of the Roman Empire is still with us, de facto if not de jure. It's called Western Civilization, with Latin legal terms, many Latinate languages, Senates, citizenship, plumbing,... Roman technology and culture wasn't lost, it was spread across the Western world.

The point isn't one of waxing and waning in the fortunes of cultures, it's the assumption by the ignorant that China is some sort of bunch of barbarians with no prior culture or sophistication to build on. Listen to some of the people here and you'd think that an education system was a new thing to the Chinese. There's this pervasive suggestion that China is somehow inferior or third-rate, it is not, it's a culture with a long and proud history of cultural and technological innovation. For those of us who have issues with the direction China's culture has taken in the last half century or so, and the direction that it might take in the future, the implicit power in that history is a worrying thing.

[coppice]

The point isn't one of waxing and waning in the fortunes of cultures, it's the assumption by the ignorant that China is some sort of bunch of barbarians with no prior culture or sophistication to build on. Listen to some of the people here and you'd think that an education system was a new thing to the Chinese. There's this pervasive suggestion that China is somehow inferior or third-rate, it is not, it's a culture with a long and proud history of cultural and technological innovation. For those of us who have issues with the direction China's culture has taken in the last half century or so, and the direction that it might take in the future, the implicit power in that history is a worrying thing.

What worries me the most is the way China, Hong Kong and Singapore's schools keep scoring so well against western schools. I have first hand experience of Hong Kong schools, and indirect experience of southern Chinese schools. The standards are not high. If western schools are worse than this, standards have seriously crashed since the 60s, when I was at school in the UK.

[Towger]

The state school exams are revised every 10/15 years.  In other words they are getting dumbed down. In this PC world it is not correct for children to fail exams...

[Cerebus]

The point isn't one of waxing and waning in the fortunes of cultures, it's the assumption by the ignorant that China is some sort of bunch of barbarians with no prior culture or sophistication to build on. Listen to some of the people here and you'd think that an education system was a new thing to the Chinese. There's this pervasive suggestion that China is somehow inferior or third-rate, it is not, it's a culture with a long and proud history of cultural and technological innovation. For those of us who have issues with the direction China's culture has taken in the last half century or so, and the direction that it might take in the future, the implicit power in that history is a worrying thing.

What worries me the most is the way China, Hong Kong and Singapore's schools keep scoring so well against western schools. I have first hand experience of Hong Kong schools, and indirect experience of southern Chinese schools. The standards are not high. If western schools are worse than this, standards have seriously crashed since the 60s, when I was at school in the UK.

1) I suspect UK standards have slipped, just based on my experience of what people coming out of school currently know compared to what I and my cohort knew when we left school. In particular they seem to cover a much smaller Maths syllabus than we did. Also, more worryingly, a recent look at some syllabus contents leads me to believe there is a highly doctrinaire, as opposed to fact based, slant to their content. I saw national syllabus points that stated "facts" that ought to be taught that looked a lot more like opinions than facts, and questionable ones at that. Education in the UK has become more political since our day, and by political I mean that there is both more politics surrounding education and more political content in education. I prefer education that teaches people how to think, not what to think.

2) The system those league tables are based on, the Programme for International Student Assessment, is structured in such a way it would be very easy for a country that wanted to to 'game' their results. I have no difficulty in believing that 'face saving' would lead to China gaming their results as hard as possible, but equally I have no evidence that they have. What I am sure of is that even a cursory glance at the methodology of the Programme for International Student Assessment leads me to strongly distrust all the results.

[PedroDaGr8]

...
Furthermore, China had a rich and sophisticated culture back when Nctnico's ancestors (and mine) were living in mud huts and banging rocks together for entertainment.  There's a very long list of cultural and technological achievements that first saw the light of day in China. For instance the puddling process for Iron was used in China by the beginning of the Han dynasty (202 BCE) and was re-invented in England in 1783 but, hey, what's nearly two millennia for the West to catch up?
...
...
They just have to avoid making the mistakes that the West has made and, sadly, on current evidence they seem to be working quite hard at repeating the West's mistakes. (e.g. By embracing the worst aspects of capitalism, China seems to have created a property bubble that looks to burst soon. That is something it would have been easy to avoid [in a centralist command economy] by learning from a little observation of Western economies over the last few decades).

 Their Terracotta Army of clay solders show they knew 2000 years ago how to standardize manufacturing and applied assembly line techniques - 2000 years ago.

Not contradicting your other stuff but there is a slowly developing debate that they imported artisans to train the Chinese Artisans in how to build the army. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/did-greeks-help-sculpt-chinas-terracotta-warriors-180960771/?no-ist

[tggzzz]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

I remember the same statements about Japan, back in the early to mid 70s.

[Marco]

WW2 didn't as thoroughly trash Japanese culture as communism did China's.

It will be hard for China to advance with just cut-throat commercialism and the "communist" party, especially not as long as the USA exists to leech away people who want a slightly more cultured environment. Xi is trying to pick and chose parts of Confucianism to create more moral citizens, but as long as his party has no cohesive ideal and some honesty I doubt it will inspire anything. Much like our own politicians in the west.

[tggzzz]

WW2 didn't as thoroughly trash Japanese culture as communism did China's.

China was in a pretty terrible state before the communists came to power; that was a major reason they succeeded. Read Peter Fleming's (elder brother of Ian Fleming) "Travels in Tartary" and "Ones's Company" from the 1930s. IIRC many people counted themselves lucky to get one egg per week.

Of course 1967 was a terrible grotesque miscalculation with devastatimg consequences.

[mikeselectricstuff]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

I remember the same statements about Japan, back in the early to mid 70s.

Yes but in those days, software wasn't a significant part of a product. This is an area where the Chinese have yet to show many signs of getting their act together, and it's  a lot harder than figuring out how to build hardware

[nctnico]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

Don't ignore paper, gunpowder, printing and the compass amongst many others, silk is another. The Chinese have the greatest and longest history of technological innovation of any country in the world.

Which has made me wondering for quite a while now why they never leveraged that into conquering the world like the West Europeans did.

[tggzzz]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

I remember the same statements about Japan, back in the early to mid 70s.

Yes but in those days, software wasn't a significant part of a product. This is an area where the Chinese have yet to show many signs of getting their act together, and it's  a lot harder than figuring out how to build hardware

Nonsense. And I speak as someone that has been professionally developing both hardware and software since the 70s.

Your statement is no more than "famous last words". The Chinese aren't stupid. Inexperienced yes, but not stupid. As I've always told my daughter, inexperience can be cured, whereas stupidity can't.

[tggzzz]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

Don't ignore paper, gunpowder, printing and the compass amongst many others, silk is another. The Chinese have the greatest and longest history of technological innovation of any country in the world.

Which has made me wondering for quite a while now why they never leveraged that into conquering the world like the West Europeans did.

That's an interesting question.

It is noteworthy that for most of human history (i.e. up until the 17th century) China was the world's largest economy - largely because economic output was limited by muscle power. The West gained an advantage due to The Enlightenment leading to the use of chemical energy, but there's no reason to believe that advantage will last forever.

[nctnico]

Your statement is no more than "famous last words". The Chinese aren't stupid. Inexperienced yes, but not stupid. As I've always told my daughter, inexperience can be cured, whereas stupidity can't.

I think greed is also a problem of the Chinese. They want to do business at any cost. Look at the baby milk scandal, environmental problems and closer to home: test equipment with unfinished/half working firmware. For as long as they choose to make substandard products for short term profits then they'll continue to have quality problems. Can you fix greed and shortsightedness?

[hammy]

Which has made me wondering for quite a while now why they never leveraged that into conquering the world like the West Europeans did.

It is a cultural difference. China has been following an isolationist policy since ancient times.
But it played a dominat role in the world economy between 1100 and 1800. It was a leading trading nation.
The British empire adopted the technological, navigational and innovations of China to bypass earlier stages in becoming a world power.

The entire Western academic profession – first and foremost British  imperial historians – attributed British imperial dominance of Asia to English ‘technological superiority’ and China’s misery and colonial status to ‘oriental backwardness’, omitting any mention of the millennium of Chinese commercial and technical progress and superiority up to the dawn of the 19th century.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/china-rise-fall-and-re-emergence-as-a-global-power/29644

China is ambitious to become the most powerful country and overtake America...

The US economy grew about 1.7% while China’s economy grew 9.2% in 2011.
The Chinese government has almost no debt, while Washington has nearly $145 trillion in debt and obligations.
The U.S. has about 160 million workers …
China has 810 million workers — more than 5 times more than the United States.
97% of all Chinese workers are employed …
But 14 million U.S. workers are either unemployed or underemployed.
Nearly 50% of every dollar Washington spends today is borrowed money, most of which it borrowed from China.
Without the billions Beijing loans Washington, the entire US government would go bankrupt.
http://beforeitsnews.com/china/2012/05/chinas-plan-to-conquer-the-world-2085568.html

For our children it is better to learn mandarin. 

Cheers
hammy

[rx8pilot]

From the filmmaker...

"....someone in America came up with the intellectual property and spent a long time fighting manufacturers that were creating something that was similar.....That was a great example where I would advise someone not to fight IP protection....it's better to just build a brand around a really great product. Make sure you've got the leading product in the area.

When you spend considerable time and effort developing something and 1000 companies copy you in China for a fraction of the cost - the ONLY motivation left for a US designer is to patent and defend the patent. How do you focus on building a brand around a really great product - a leading product - when the market is flooded with copies of your invention? I can't see how this works for true innovation. All I see is a system that keeps innovative people from entering the viper pit.


Copied products are called 'Reproductions"..... Hilarious.

[Marco]

Apple's patent shenanigans have done almost nothing for them, they got where they are by strength of product and promotion.

The Chinese raided our supermarket shelves for genuine article Dutch branded baby formula, they didn't want the reproduction.

[tronde]

OK so the Chinese are good at monkey-see-monkey-do. Engineering takes thinking outside the box along unguided paths which is exactly what the regime doesn't want people to do.

How many new, innovative, imaginitive tech products have come out of China?
I'm struggling to think of a single one.

I remember the same statements about Japan, back in the early to mid 70s.

And when we finally realized that Japan was no joke, we got a lot of crap from Korea that made us laugh. I stopped laughing about them some years ago... I was in China for business 13 years ago. What I experienced there made me realize we would face serious trouble in the future. Not because they was smart, but becuse of the "drive" and willingness to solve problems. Yes, they cut corners, but so did the Japanese and later the Korean until they learnt to do it "our way".

[rx8pilot]

I was in China for business 13 years ago. What I experienced there made me realize we would face serious trouble in the future. Not because they was smart, but becuse of the "drive" and willingness to solve problems. Yes, they cut corners, but so did the Japanese and later the Korean until they learnt to do it "our way".

'Drive' is key and the Chinese have that resource. Here in the USA, there is only a very, very tiny portion of the population that has drive. Mostly what I hear is the minimum wage is too low and everything costs too much. Too many are waiting for corrupt politicians to 'fix it'. Meanwhile - the Chinese are seriously busting a nut to get smarter and faster.

[tronde]

The German edition of Make magazin 4/2016 made an interview with the German minister of science and education, Johanna Wanka.

She said: "Es ist auch leider die Neugier verloren gegangen, wie etwas funktioniert, und das finde ich schlimm."

English translation is something like: "Unfortunately, curiosity about how things work has been lost, and I find that bad."

Germany is not a third world country, so I guess we in the West should be a little careful saying we will be superior in the future...

We should also consider the fact that many talented young Chinese study abroad. Some of them will return back home.

[Rick Law]

...
What worries me the most is the way China, Hong Kong and Singapore's schools keep scoring so well against western schools. I have first hand experience of Hong Kong schools, and indirect experience of southern Chinese schools. The standards are not high. If western schools are worse than this, standards have seriously crashed since the 60s, when I was at school in the UK.

Having a kid in high school, I paid very close attention to education related issues.  I can say for sure the standard have seriously crashed.    We are focusing too much on "feel good" stuff rather than hard education.

When each State has it's standard, at least we have some States excelling.  Massachusetts (MA) and California (CA) used to have the best standards (not saying they were meeting their own standards).  Their kids had the chance of being better.   Now we have central planing - Common Core, which will ensure no one excels.  It was called "Race to the top" re-brand when it rolled out.  Perhaps the nick name "race to the bottom" had something to do with re-branding.  Compared to TIMSS (Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study), Common Core is dangerously inadequate.

Eleven States just took the financial penalty and withdrawn from Common Core.  In Massachusetts, there was to be a ballot this November to leave common core.  However, the ballot didn't make it to voting because of court ruling on some technicalities.  Hopefully, Common Core will be history very soon not just for MA, but for all of the USA.

...
'Drive' is key and the Chinese have that resource. Here in the USA, there is only a very, very tiny portion of the population that has drive. Mostly what I hear is the minimum wage is too low and everything costs too much. Too many are waiting for corrupt politicians to 'fix it'. Meanwhile - the Chinese are seriously busting a nut to get smarter and faster.

Not only do most of our (USA) kids lack drive, they also lack self-responsibility, lack self-esteem, lack ambition, and lack the awareness of the competition around them.  I know 3 recent college graduates with absolutely no ambition in work or in career.  Their ambition is in travel, smart phone, and showoff to their buddies they are now visiting such and such place.  Their career goal is only as much as the cost of the next airline ticket or the cost of the next smart phone.

I think it is high time we redo college loan and federal aid.  Not base on need alone, but instead focus on probability of success.  Success criteria should include "can this kid support himself/herself majoring in this!"

That said, some kids (not the majority) are busting their nuts to get smarter and faster - I know a few my self.  Unfortunately, not the majority.

[BravoV]

Too many are waiting for corrupt politicians to 'fix it'. Meanwhile - the Chinese are seriously busting a nut to get smarter and faster.

From what I read, the Chinese govt is reaching a record high every year in the world, by executing their corrupted officials and politicians with death penalty.