Prof: Social Justice Warriors Destroying Engineering

[Cerebus]

Yes, STEAM is still around.  And leads to the question.  What isn't in STEAM? 

STEM was a movement predicated on the lack of interest and education in the sciences resulting in a shortage of qualified technical talent to keep our technology based society going.  Was there concern that there isn't enough art based talent to keep Hollywood going that resulted in the addition of arts?  Nah, it was just that the band, music and art teachers saw a good bandwagon and jumped on.

I think the argument for including some liberal arts content in STEM subjects was simply a well intentioned attempt to ensure a broader education in an era where STEM subjects are becoming narrower and narrower as time goes on. Don't forget that some of the founding fathers of our art had incredibly broad educations and were arguably the more capable for it. Check out how good the, admittedly autodidact, Michael Faraday's English is when he's tackling what is, for him, a secondary subject:

I purpose, in return for the honour you do us by coming to see what are
our proceedings here, to bring before you, in the course of these
lectures, the Chemical History of a Candle. I have taken this subject on a
former occasion; and were it left to my own will, I should prefer to
repeat it almost every year--so abundant is the interest that attaches
itself to the subject, so wonderful are the varieties of outlet which it
offers into the various departments of philosophy. There is not a law
under which any part of this universe is governed which does not come into
play, and is touched upon in these phenomena. There is no better, there is
no more open door by which you can enter into the study of natural
philosophy, than by considering the physical phenomena of a candle. I
trust, therefore, I shall not disappoint you in choosing this for my
subject rather than any newer topic, which could not be better, were it
even so good.

Nowadays he'd learn no English, no Chemistry and would be stuck studying just electricity and the world would subsequently be the poorer for it.

I doubt that I'll find much objection here if I say that those taking the liberal arts ought to be exposed to more mandatory science and technology eduction. After all, most of our politicians and other 'leaders' come from the liberal arts or law - ought not they be exposed to enough science and technology to stop them from making stupid mistakes and encourage more well informed decisions in later life?

I'll bet that the average sociologist or lawyer, faced with the prospect of some mandatory technology education for liberal arts undergraduates would bitch just as much as the average engineer here does at the idea of a little mandatory arts eduction for undergraduate scientists and engineers.

[691175002]

I greatly regret not learning to draw well in school.  Having an eye for design is universally useful, and it is very hard to cultivate directly.  Experiencing and analyzing a certain amount of art/architecture/design is one of the best ways to improve your skill.

On the other hand, I'm sure the present-day definition of "art" is just code for political agendas infiltrating STEM.  I think a course that analyzes the history of architecture or industrial design would be very valuable; a sermon on how engineering has subjugated minorities for centuries not so much.

My personal experience with "arts" in STEM education was very poor.  We were forced to take a class called "English for Math Majors" - the only course I have ever experience that was so banal it had mandatory attendence.  Half the class was ESL students, and it was a full semester of 1.5 hour lectures by an unenthusiastic grad student on middle-school spelling and grammar.  We even had to write multiple 5 paragraph essays on assigned topics.  I'm not sure who graded them; I can only imagine how torturous that process must have been.

Funny how the hardest part of getting a degree is the pointless bullshit.

[Assafl]

My personal experience with "arts" in STEM education was very poor.  We were forced to take a class called "English for Math Majors" - the only course I have ever experience that was so banal it had mandatory attendence.  Half the class was ESL students, and it was a full semester of 1.5 hour lectures by an unenthusiastic grad student on middle-school spelling and grammar.  We even had to write multiple 5 paragraph essays on assigned topics.  I'm not sure who graded them; I can only imagine how torturous that process must have been.

Funny how the hardest part of getting a degree is the pointless bullshit.

If, however, your teacher was Steven Pinker (and not the bored and boring grad student) you and your classmates would bubble over how awesome it was and how it changed your life.

English (or arts in general) as a subject isn't a problem. Teachers, and the quality of teaching however, do matter. Unfortunately, the arts and English departments won't waste their good teachers on engineers. Making most people bored and resent what should be highly inspiring subjects.

[Zero999]

I greatly regret not learning to draw well in school.

I think drawing something one is either good at or not. Of course practise will lead to improvement, but it won't make up for lack of talent. I was always poor at drawing. It was a problem at school, in design and technology and art classes, but then I grew up and used CAD, so I have no regrets in not wasting my time.

Having an eye for design is universally useful, and it is very hard to cultivate directly.  Experiencing and analyzing a certain amount of art/architecture/design is one of the best ways to improve your skill.

I agree, but one can be good at that and poor at getting it down on paper.

My personal experience with "arts" in STEM education was very poor.  We were forced to take a class called "English for Math Majors" - the only course I have ever experience that was so banal it had mandatory attendence.  Half the class was ESL students, and it was a full semester of 1.5 hour lectures by an unenthusiastic grad student on middle-school spelling and grammar.  We even had to write multiple 5 paragraph essays on assigned topics.  I'm not sure who graded them; I can only imagine how torturous that process must have been.

Funny how the hardest part of getting a degree is the pointless bullshit.

Did it have to be handwritten? If so, I would have stood no chance whatsoever at passing. My handwriting is very slow and illegible. I remember having to take a written communication exam at college. I took it three times and failed each time. The problem for me, was I had to write too much, in too little time. Even if I'd been given an A grade paper to copy, I still would have failed to re-write it, in the allotted time. Initially I was given 25% extra time, but that wasn't enough. I asked if I could type it, but the examining board refused. In the end, they gave a full day to take the exam, because they knew my problem was getting it down on paper and I passed the fourth time!

[BBBbbb]

So while maybe strictly unobtainable communism is surely something that may lead to misfortune of those in disagreement.

This sounds similar as blaming Catholicism for pedophilia of Islam for terrorism. Only people that have misinterpreted and misused the idea are to be blamed not the idea itself.

A Hellene did a much better job of elaborating the difference of communism and its impossibility and regimes that misused the idea.
Anyways I know very well what you were trying to say, pretty much any "socialist" country that was within the SSSR or under the Soviet influence got screw up, and by this I mean the people living in them. I'm just trying to correct the bad labeling, although widely accepted in masses and media.

[cdev]

I think (this is my personal opinion, not one I'm repeating) a lot of the core methods neoliberalism is pushing to try to lower wages for skilled work and diminish the earning power of people whom have learned practical skills that society "needs" are bade on the work of Fredrick taylor, which is to say they are heavily influenced by Taylorism.

That is not to say that many of the points he made were and remain legitimate and true. I just think we need to weigh things we go in a number of different lights.

I agree with what you said about both extreme communism and extreme corporato-fascism being two sides of the same ugly coin. That seems obvious to me and many others. I always mistrust people who put any ideology above humanity and who fail to show flexibility when confronted with a situation where their previously espoused conclusion doesnt fit. Smart people are constantly re-evaluating their own feelings and try to focus on smart goals. I think the best goal is for our species to not only survive, to thrive into the future and move towards a society that conquers things we all agree are bad such as hynger, hate, intolerance, and ignorance of science, and life.  We can always do better than we are doing now, and surprise, its in many ways its own reward.. money is not the only motivator or even the best one..  What is? lots of things but I would nominate both altruism and flow.. the pleasre from doing something well. Also teaching others things they want to do is very pleasurable as is learning. I think learning is a fabulous motivator. In fact I think the engineer will be a model for the future society. The engineering, can do mindset is special enough to become a much larger part of humanities priority system.. and it will if we let it.

Engineering also can tell us that sometimes, inefficiency is good if it gives us redundancy and fault tolerance. And when the stakes are so high, a lot of inefficiency which can also be seen as diversity is good. thats how nature has optimized our planet and how life has survived and thrived and we can learn a lot from nature, more than we can learn from mankind, certainly, much more.

The real problem as I see it is we have a world with gifts that is not telling us we NEED to be so "efficient" and indeed if the price of that efficiency is going to be the lives and futures of nearly everybody its telling us we need to be less efficient and relax more and be fruitful and multiply if thats what we want, because we can survive and do much more with less. The conspicuous consumption were being told is the right way to live is totally unnecessary and it will only live to misery and war..

They are pushing us towards w world where almost nobody can survive comfortably. Is this what we are working for? No its not, its what they are trying to sneak upon us by stealth. Via FTAS.

What they are seeking are trust misalignments which work to the very few advantages, situation where there is a lie, an incomplete contract where they hope we are filling in the blanks missing some important information that works to their advantage to lock groups of people into very bad, nonworking situations. Preventing these situationists (that was a typo but a fun one)  is what democracy's main function is and thats why all these trade agreements are supposed to be "forever". Democracy greatly increases the difficulty of corruption because one corrupt leader or government can only lead to bad decisions whose impact is only a few years until they are voted out. In contrast under trade agreements, one corrupt group as many countries have today, can sign that countries regulatory policy space in some are or indeed all areas of economic importance, away "frever" in a way thats almost impossibly costly to reverse. After this the only solution for those impacted will be emigration elsewhere. But the agreements set up a system where both corporations and corrupt governments can get the "benefit" to them of immigrants WITH NO OBLIGATIONS at a cut rate. This undermines almost all the assumptions in a society and screws very greatly almost everybody except for them.

It undermines the current inhabitants both citizens and noncitizen permanent residents of the country by creating a way to get skilled labor for 'whatever the market will bear" internationally.

Say the prevailing wage rate for Potemkinists was $70k a year.  But in the huge country of Vlugaria Potemkinists are on every corner and they can be hired fresh out of school for $3500 a year. The country's largest business the Thievery Corporation hires them houses them in dormitories around the world and resells their services for $35000 a year while paying them $3500 This is all made legal by the GATS agreement. Who does this benefit? Well, it benefits the government of Vlugaria, who doesnt have to improve the situation for their people, especially Potemkinists who otherwise might unionize and demand higher wages. Instead they ship them away to the other side of the world.

Meanwhile in the Untied Republic of Pflug people are pushing for the privatization of everything. Reason being given, everything is too unpredictable, plus we can get Potemkinists from the Thievery Corporation for less than it costs us to educate our own. Plus, the foreign workers will be on a very short leash which is valuable in these uncertain times. If we cut out the essential zorbing, they wont point out the problems caused for our Schemeotrons. Because if they did they would lose their jobs and be on the next hovercraft back to Vlugaria. It also undermines all of our own Potemkinists who all are now losing their jobs, many of whom are very good, the envy of the rest of the world. But the job market has been hollowed out. But it continues and everything falls apart.

 


Quote from: MT on Today at 11:15:37>Quote from: cdev on Yesterday at 18:13:43

The difference now is the state and the corporations that own it now really does not want to "need" anybody who it does not control, or might be seen as owing some obligation to.


Thats were AI comes in. Our one hope would be open algorithms and FOSS so attempts are being made to demonize all the things that could stop it.

Also, the people here who are deluded into thinking socialism is taking over are profoundly ignorant, as its capitalism thats doing it. (but pretending its the opposite)

In your previous posts you draw'd the opposite conclusion now your contradict your self, your ignorant.

Basically neo liberals and neo conservatives (just a lose definition) is the same thing they just have the same goal using different roads to it. Both are the same highway hijackers. Trump Hillary,Lepenn Macron, Stalin Hitler, same totalitarian garbage.

In 1936 language, Nazism, Communism, Fascism, same tree just different branches.

Read some of  the contemporary crowd psychologists, e.g Gustaf Le Bon etc, The psychology of peoples, The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind etc. Hitler did as well as Theodore Roosevelt.

Also  a  read on Karl Marx 1832 paper i think it was is interesting, the two siblings Nazism and Communism is outlined there.

[cdev]

One thing I do remember well is that in what was it, the very late 1980s and early 1990s when the USSR and communism in Europe could be said to have suddenly or not so suddenly disintegrated there was a lot of envy here in the US among the wealthy of the gangsters or oligarchs or whatever you want to call them in communist countries for how rapidly and completely they snapped up all the valuable assets of former state owned companies in a manner so as to share practically none of the wealth with the people of those countries (they should have)

That change was looked at with amazement here and it seems to have inspired a copycat sort of audacity, I think which has manifested itself in teh incredibly sordid and audacious GATS and its ilk which are so unbelievably obvious scams that its hard to believe its really being done, but of course it is. Nobody has had the guts or perhaps nobody except a few really see it for what it is because they ave been literally brainwashed.. its as if they are in a dream state where they are accepting the abuse - its an abuse, make no mistake of it.

I think the theft in Europe emboldened many, no small way that huge theft was part of the model situation for GATS which could be said to be the second "enclosure" sort of it attempts to eliminate all shared assets, and all expectations of things working for people and instead it explicitly says that corporations have a right to sell those things and deny them to those who cant pay if thats what a country wants. The only other possibility is for that service to be totally free and noncommercial. So virtually nothing passes that test.. .  And they admitted that in a leaked document about medical tourism and TISA. Which is on some icelandic whistleblowers site..

neoliberals and neoliberalism is nothing less than Social Injustice Warriors.. fighting to make the world end its attempts to improve the life of anybody and instead let them be exploited and economically raped "equally". But of course that is in and of itself, part of the con job.. taking in gullible oligarchs from poor countries and telling them they wont be conned when of course they and everybody else will be. All the con artists will cn one another nobody will get anything near or even remotely resembling a good outcome and the best thing to do would be to dump the whole thing and everybody who has been pushing it should be shamed and exposed.

Not punished for treason, although it is indeed that, (TO THEIR/OURCOUNTRIES AND INDEED ALSO TO THE ENTIRE PLANET) because that and subsequently the 'persecution' they no doubt would attempt to exploit would perpetuate a bad cycle of greed and intolerance, (thats what always happens) no the appropriate response for society is for it to be exposed and then for society to thrive.. on a basis of honesty and mutual respect, real honsety and mutual respect- not their 'rights for corporations and fellow oligarchy to steal equally'.

Then the attempted coup should be endlessly analyzed in such a way that it will be a VERY long time before they try to trot it out again. making that time as long as possible should be the goal. because the last two times (MAI and FTAA) they did this it wasnt really understood to have happened and failed by any but a small sort of wonkish group and you know what, they were already working on the next ones by those points. They are very very sneaky.

Especially we should be wary of anything involving "investment protection" or "trade in services"

[tautech]

I greatly regret not learning to draw well in school.

I think drawing something one is either good at or not. Of course practise will lead to improvement, but it won't make up for lack of talent. I was always poor at drawing. It was a problem at school, in design and technology and art classes, but then I grew up and used CAD, so I have no regrets in not wasting my time.

Having an eye for design is universally useful, and it is very hard to cultivate directly.  Experiencing and analyzing a certain amount of art/architecture/design is one of the best ways to improve your skill.

I agree, but one can be good at that and poor at getting it down on paper.

My personal experience with "arts" in STEM education was very poor.  We were forced to take a class called "English for Math Majors" - the only course I have ever experience that was so banal it had mandatory attendence.  Half the class was ESL students, and it was a full semester of 1.5 hour lectures by an unenthusiastic grad student on middle-school spelling and grammar.  We even had to write multiple 5 paragraph essays on assigned topics.  I'm not sure who graded them; I can only imagine how torturous that process must have been.

Funny how the hardest part of getting a degree is the pointless bullshit.

Did it have to be handwritten? If so, I would have stood no chance whatsoever at passing. My handwriting is very slow and illegible. I remember having to take a written communication exam at college. I took it three times and failed each time. The problem for me, was I had to write too much, in too little time. Even if I'd been given an A grade paper to copy, I still would have failed to re-write it, in the allotted time. Initially I was given 25% extra time, but that wasn't enough. I asked if I could type it, but the examining board refused. In the end, they gave a full day to take the exam, because they knew my problem was getting it down on paper and I passed the fourth time!

Parallels to my experiences. 

The system as it was and still is struggles to identify the good/skill in many of us.
If we're not all little clones of the ideal student, some succeeding, others not when they don't know how to assess us.

A generation later when my son (1st) had failed his English public speaking....a few months later at an end of year function for our district Gateway work experience programme he was asked to speak to a gathering of 400 parents, employers, students and educators. Nervous as hell he was, so was I as I'd been asked to follow him.
As a typical 16 year old his speech was written the night before  but news just before the event that his efforts over that year had landed him with the job he'd been in the programme for. He was definitely the last to know about landing the job he soooo wanted and luckily the HR person was at this function so we bailed him up to ensure our boy knew the play. 

So most of his notes went onto the floor and he winged his way through a magnificent speech that ended with everyone on their feet applauding.

Anyways, a couple of days later when word got back to the principal of this west Auckland HS, he took some time to call us one evening and commend us on the great speech our son had made and how good it was for the image of his school.
Of course the words were barely out of his mouth when I informed him of our son's public speaking fails during the year and that he had some serious unfinished work to do with the competency of his teachers. 

That phone call didn't run on much longer. 

[MrW0lf]

This sounds similar as blaming Catholicism for pedophilia of Islam for terrorism. Only people that have misinterpreted and misused the idea are to be blamed not the idea itself.

I leave you connoisseurs at discussing of subtle nuances of various magnificent ideologies circulated in materialistic world. My interest in them is below -100dB so indeed maybe better not discuss. However what you must not forget that at receiving end there is not much difference is it drunk sailor or some jihadi. End result is dictated by same recipe: carefully groom large part of society to have no belongings, family ties or intellectual goals. Remove responsibility. Unleash at middle class & intellectuals.

[Galenbo]

If engineers are gonna be schooled and get competent in humanitarian and social(istic) stuff, what are the libtards gonna do in life?
Giving engineers communication skills already replaced the global communication jobs with an app.

Seems better to me to include math, physics, engineering, economics in libtard studies.
It's their department that is in problems, it's them who fail to get a decent job, it's them who always need somebody else's money.

[Cerebus]

It's their department that is in problems, it's them who fail to get a decent job, it's them who always need somebody else's money.

Check how many leaders of countries and big companies have engineering degrees compared to people with a 'soft' degree. I think you'll find yourself eating your words. Ladies and gentlemen, we engineers are not the ones in charge, we just think we ought to be.

[cdev]

People actually can "see communism" and extreme levels of oppression from outer space now.

 See attached "people1.jpg". They are prisoners in a large, a very large outdoor prison.

There are two groups of two people each in this picture. why are they walking that way?
Answer, they have to work in groups of two so they don't try to escape.

What is the encircled area with the path from it going only leftward in the left center area?
The thing on the left is a machine gun/guard post so people working in this field which is very near the border of the camp, can be fired on if they try to get out.

Internet picture... speaks for itself..

DMZ picture. shows construction details of deadfall traps/trenchs alongside electric fences

[DimitriP]

Seems better to me to include math, physics, engineering, economics in libtard studies.

Both Margaret Thatcher and Angela Merkel both started as recearch chemists and yet depending on who you ask they are as good or better or  as bad or worse as  any other politician in their position.

Wierd.

[EEVblog]

As for different types of university courses these days, I like professor Peterson's suggestion, paraphrasing:
Cut every university budget by 30% and let them fight it out among themselves which ones are the most valuable.
I suspect Prudue's "Engineering Education" department would get the chop 

As for Purdue, what do they actually do? It's a whole department devoted to what? Trying to figure out the direction of engineering? For who?
Far as I can tell engineering education has been just fine for the last century and has progressed well enough on it's own. Why the need for an entire "Engineering Education" department and producing graduates in that field?
If anything I can see myself, in theory, being a prime candidate for such a course, but I'm buggered if I can see any actual value in it? 

About Us.

The School of Engineering Education (ENE) envisions a more inclusive socially connected and scholarly engineering education. This implies that we radically rethink the boundaries of engineering and the purpose of engineering education.

Our mission to transform engineering education based on scholarship and research rests on three pillars: Re-imagining engineering and engineering education, creating field-shaping knowledge, and empowering agents of change.

The behaviors we value are:

being collegial, cooperative and mutually supportive;
acting with integrity and respect and building trust;
balancing work with other commitments;
being socially conscious in what we do and how we do it;
thinking strategically and striving for excellence;
being accountable.
Above all else, we seek to put students first in all we do.
Our goals are:

Empower our people - Empower all members of the School (students; professional, administrative, and clerical staff; recruiters; advisors; and faculty) to contribute to the success of our integrated, multifaceted mission while achieving their individual professional goals.
Set the pace - Offer a full suite of undergraduate and graduate programs that set the global standard in engineering education grounded in and contributing to cutting-edge scholarship and research.
Tackle the big (research) questions - Create a world-renowned interdisciplinary research concentration at Purdue that addresses the big questions and challenges facing STEM education, with particular emphasis on engineering.
Grow the community - Identify and build strategic global partnerships and collaborations to elevate our research capabilities and those of the wider engineering education community, while simultaneously facilitating the sharing of experiences across the global community of engineering education scholars.

[coppice]

As for different types of university courses these days, I like professor Peterson's suggestion, paraphrasing:
Cut every university budget by 30% and let them fight it out among themselves which ones are the most valuable.
I suspect Prudue's "Engineering Education" department would get the chop 

Courses without lab work are much cheaper to run. The last time I knew specific numbers for UK universities, a humanities course cost less than half as much to run as the average science or engineering course. It can't be much different other countries. This has regularly caused a tightening of belts to result in science and engineering courses being cut first, with no regard for their utility.

[Assafl]

As for different types of university courses these days, I like professor Peterson's suggestion, paraphrasing:
Cut every university budget by 30% and let them fight it out among themselves which ones are the most valuable.
I suspect Prudue's "Engineering Education" department would get the chop 

Courses without lab work are much cheaper to run. The last time I knew specific numbers for UK universities, a humanities course cost less than half as much to run as the average science or engineering course. It can't be much different other countries. This has regularly caused a tightening of belts to result in science and engineering courses being cut first, with no regard for their utility.

I thought that is why many departments find their own sponsors.

Getting a reactor or a fab in place is usually sponsors (industry and philanthropy) or government (like DARPA or NASA money).

That is also why US universities are high on all the lists. Lots of money sources.

In any case I don't see how these "warriors" can destroy engineering. They best they can be a temporary distraction for students. At the end you have to go through the curriculum. Just like you can't hurt math or chemistry (but you can destroy an English curriculum with puffery).

[Cerebus]

In any case I don't see how these "warriors" can destroy engineering. They best they can be a temporary distraction for students. At the end you have to go through the curriculum. Just like you can't hurt math or chemistry (but you can destroy an English curriculum with puffery).

Don't underestimate quite how much of a university faculty's time is wasted on internal politics and on Politics. For most departments this is an unwelcome distraction, but if ignored can be fatally destructive. For the class of people obsessed with sexual politics and other -isms, the internecine politics is their raison d'etre.

[JoeO]

No, it is still around and I hate it.  STEM is almost totally about teamwork.  Art is for the most part about an individual's work.
Books, plays, art works etc. are done by one person.

Erm, isn't a play almost quintessential teamwork? Even if it is a monologue end-to-end, there is still at the absolute minimum an author, an actor, a director, lighting engineer and a bored stage hand. I've been involved with stage and screen drama and they are probably the most social, team-work oriented environments I have been in.

Books, even pure fiction, aren't solo enterprises either, there's at least the writer and their editor involved.

I'd go so far as to say that the more 'artsy' the environment I've worked in the more real team-work was involved and the more 'engineering' the environment the less real teamwork involved. I won't say who, but I spent about a year working in the design department at one well known manufacturer of networking equipment and the only time I got out of my solo cubicle to do any 'team-work' was when I had to physically chase down people to twist their arms to get around to doing their sign-offs on my work.

Please notice my use of the word "MOSTLY".
You have stated some of circumstances that required me to use the word MOSTLY.
MOSTLY!

[JoeO]

Now STEM is too white!

" In “STEM has a Diversity Problem,” she blames racial disparities on textbooks with too many pictures of white scientists. "

https://www.nas.org/articles/what_damores_memo_taught_google

[Cerebus]

No, it is still around and I hate it.  STEM is almost totally about teamwork.  Art is for the most part about an individual's work.
Books, plays, art works etc. are done by one person.

Erm, isn't a play almost quintessential teamwork? Even if it is a monologue end-to-end, there is still at the absolute minimum an author, an actor, a director, lighting engineer and a bored stage hand. I've been involved with stage and screen drama and they are probably the most social, team-work oriented environments I have been in.

Books, even pure fiction, aren't solo enterprises either, there's at least the writer and their editor involved.

I'd go so far as to say that the more 'artsy' the environment I've worked in the more real team-work was involved and the more 'engineering' the environment the less real teamwork involved. I won't say who, but I spent about a year working in the design department at one well known manufacturer of networking equipment and the only time I got out of my solo cubicle to do any 'team-work' was when I had to physically chase down people to twist their arms to get around to doing their sign-offs on my work.

Please notice my use of the word "MOSTLY".
You have stated some of circumstances that required me to use the word MOSTLY.
MOSTLY!

You can say it three times, but it still doesn't appear even once in what you quote; which was written by someone completely else.

[floobydust]

My engineering program has mandatory arts/humanities electives. ~1-2 a year.

You are so swamped with workload- labs, assignments, project courses that the arts courses were really holidays. You skipped them to catch up on the "real" work.
If you fail a math course, you are out of sequence and all courses with a prerequisite for that math course, well you can't take. It's a disaster.

So Philosophy 125 gets ignored to pass that vector calculus course. It takes no effort to get a medium mark in an arts course anyway.
Engineering students know priorities, they aren't that dumb. Yet.

Adding artsy kitten courses just dilutes the engineering program and is a loss of the fundamental core material, for those courses deleted to make room.

[JoeO]

No, it is still around and I hate it.  STEM is almost totally about teamwork.  Art is for the most part about an individual's work.
Books, plays, art works etc. are done by one person.

Erm, isn't a play almost quintessential teamwork? Even if it is a monologue end-to-end, there is still at the absolute minimum an author, an actor, a director, lighting engineer and a bored stage hand. I've been involved with stage and screen drama and they are probably the most social, team-work oriented environments I have been in.

Books, even pure fiction, aren't solo enterprises either, there's at least the writer and their editor involved.

I'd go so far as to say that the more 'artsy' the environment I've worked in the more real team-work was involved and the more 'engineering' the environment the less real teamwork involved. I won't say who, but I spent about a year working in the design department at one well known manufacturer of networking equipment and the only time I got out of my solo cubicle to do any 'team-work' was when I had to physically chase down people to twist their arms to get around to doing their sign-offs on my work.

Please notice my use of the word "MOSTLY".
You have stated some of circumstances that required me to use the word MOSTLY.
MOSTLY!

You can say it three times, but it still doesn't appear even once in what you quote; which was written by someone completely else.

GO back and read it again.  Somehow you took my post and attributed it to HowardLong.

You are right.  It doesn't seem that you can do things by yourself.  You need someone to correct your work. 

[A Hellene]

Are we there yet?

Calm down, take some Soma.

I am sorry I overlooked your message; I thought it was a caustic joke in reply to mine about 'Idiocracy'...

Apparently, it is not:
-Oxytocin-enforced norm compliance reduces xenophobic outgroup rejection
-Study: Doping Western Cultures With Oxytocin Will Cure Hatred Of Refugees
-Oxytocin and social norms reduce xenophobia
-Giving people the 'cuddle hormone' oxytocin can increase kindness towards refugees
-Oxytocin And Social Norms Reduce Xenophobia
-The Dark Side of Oxytocin
... et cetera...

It seems that they are in a great hurry to be forcing 'everyone to become equal [sic] to each other' since 'equalisation' according to them must not be the strengthening of any weaker groups of people but the elimination of the other ones --who are also unable to buy their 'humanitarian' propaganda and keep awakening any potential 'Useful Idiots' (a Stalin's quote)...

As for different types of university courses these days, I like professor Peterson's suggestion, paraphrasing:
Cut every university budget by 30% and let them fight it out among themselves which ones are the most valuable.
I suspect Prudue's "Engineering Education" department would get the chop 

As for Purdue, what do they actually do? It's a whole department devoted to what? Trying to figure out the direction of engineering? For who?
Far as I can tell engineering education has been just fine for the last century and has progressed well enough on it's own. Why the need for an entire "Engineering Education" department and producing graduates in that field?
If anything I can see myself, in theory, being a prime candidate for such a course, but I'm buggered if I can see any actual value in it? 
[...]

Is not a massive dumbing-down what they seem to be pushing to the Academia also, since they have already succeeded in the degeneration of elementary education? Of course, there will always be special classes or seminars in some of their 'institutes' for the 'obedient' only engineers, as it has always been happening within their 'Clubs' in order to be keeping their clueless members on a short leash for the rest of their lives, under their absolute submissive control...

In a few words, this sounds to be business as usual for a certain misanthropic group of anthropomorphous monsters:

[...]
But, as both the Political Left and the Political Right ideologies were created the same exactly instant (in 1807) by the same people, please watch the similarities of the Nazi and Soviet regimes, while contemplating the similarities between Capitalism and Communism:...

The Soviet Story (Edvins Snore, 2008):

[...]
The Soviet Union was killing people in this way for many years, both before and after it joined the Allies.
[...]
Vladimir Bukovsky explains: “When Communists come to power, it does not matter where, let it be in Russia, in Poland, in Cuba, in Nicaragua, in China, initially they destroy about ten percent of the population in order to 'restructure the fabric of society'. It's 'Social Engineering': Top intellectuals, best workers, best engineers; they would kill them all and then they would try to 'restructure' the society."
[...]

Now, since those pathological liars are using the excuse of financial cuts it must be obvious that this must not be the case really; because those who are creating money on demand out of thin air DO NOT really care about money --they can print any monetary amount they wish.

So, if money is not a goal for them, it is a means to a purpose; might I ask, which exactly purpose would that be?


-George

<EDIT>: Corrections and additions...

[Cerebus]

GO back and read it again.  Somehow you took my post and attributed it to HowardLong.

You are right.  It doesn't seem that you can do things by yourself.  You need someone to correct your work.

Yup, my bad, I stuffed up the quoting. No need to be abusive though, the only thing it does is make your argument look even weaker than it already is. What I said still stands - you didn't say "mostly" at all, and you did say:

Books, plays, art works etc. are done by one person.

Which has no qualification whatsoever.

[JoeO]

GO back and read it again.  Somehow you took my post and attributed it to HowardLong.

You are right.  It doesn't seem that you can do things by yourself.  You need someone to correct your work.

Yup, my bad, I stuffed up the quoting. No need to be abusive though, the only thing it does is make your argument look even weaker than it already is. What I said still stands - you didn't say "mostly" at all, and you did say:

Books, plays, art works etc. are done by one person.

Which has no qualification whatsoever.

I made a simple statement.  If your level of reading comprehension can't understand what I wrote, then please don't comment. 
Also learn how to quote.