Power supply design/manufacture is a waste of time?

[Faringdon]

Hi,
Some years ago, possibly 10 years ago or so, I went for an interview with a
sizeable power supply company in UK. (in UK, i dont know if it was UK owned or not)
The interview was with the Managing Director himself.
I don't exactly remember the company name, it may have just been taken over or they had taken
somebody else over or something.
The interview was not at the company premises, it was at some kind of business/innovation type centre to the
west of Norwich, on the outskirts of Norwich I think.

The MD was having a big meeting there, and had clipped me on the end as an interview for him.
He was a lean (not fat)  gentleman, as I remember it, possibly a London-ish type of accent I think I remember,
I think north of 45 years old.

It was unusual, because he immediately began lecturing me on how designing/making power
supplies in the UK was a total waste of time. A complete waste of time he kept saying.
 -I hadn't said anything on these lines, so
it seemed odd that he suddenly started going on about it. As I understood it, he did do some power
supply work in UK...but whether it was just some kind of "token" work, I am not sure.

Anyway, is this still the case?...is power supply design/manufacture in UK
 still just as much of a "waste of time" today, as back then?

(This question aimed/relevant at all countries outside of China i would think?)

[Gyro]

Another duplication of your 'word salad' non-China SMPS diatribes. You have had your answer many times.

[Xena E]

No no. Let's comment fairly.

Lawrence Scott and Electromotors.

Manufacturer of electric motors, drives, and power products.

Still in the city in name, and yes taken over several times, now distributors of products made abroad...

THE END.

[tggzzz]

THE END.

If only

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject", often attributed to Winston Churchill
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/01/fanatic/

[soldar]

Did I just see a groundhog here somewhere?

[Stray Electron]

   I nominate this one for the Strangest Post of the Day Award.

[Xena E]

Did I just see a groundhog here somewhere?

That's February 2nd dude... the groundhogs are all up in their business by now anyway.

To the OP.

I'll have the salad with my burger today, and I'll take it to go.

Also, will you be needing a lift to your digs? if so I'm leaving at 14:00 sharp. 

   I nominate this one for the Strangest Post of the Day Award.

Edit:
Comment about alcohol consumption at work removed ... but I'm on my way to have a quick one now 

[tszaboo]

/removed

[AVGresponding]

Here's another one, if for no other reason than I used to work for them, indirectly: https://www.powerguard.co.uk/

[Nominal Animal]

It was unusual, because he immediately began lecturing me on how designing/making power supplies in the UK was a total waste of time. A complete waste of time he kept saying.

That only means that that particular managing director had no clue how to run a profitable business designing or manufacturing power supplies in the UK.

There is a reason why about half of company executive officers believe their job can be done by current "AI".  It is not because current "AI" is that good, it is because most people who run companies do such a poor job of it in the first place.  Those who can do it well either tend to do it for their own benefit, or eventually burn out due to all the stress and irrationality in the business world.

[jonpaul]

Over the decades the UK and EU have become less and less viable for manufacturing and especially electronics.

The younger generations of students  , even in STEM, enginering, have littyle hands on experience or incentive.

They think a vedeo will tech then a complex field like PSU design or reliabilitry.

Berxit, Govt regs, energy costs and high freingt costs have killed the business of electronics and especially PS mfg in UK and EU. USA went long ago.

Just my thoughts,

Jon

[SiliconWizard]

Given the past history of the OP, this post looks very odd. It looks as though it was the OP's first post ever on the forum, yet it comes after a long history of rants on the same topic.

It's like reverse-posting.

Or maybe we just entered a wormhole.

[Xena E]

Over the decades the UK and EU have become less and less viable for manufacturing and especially electronics.

The younger generations of students  , even in STEM, enginering, have littyle hands on experience or incentive.

They think a vedeo will tech then a complex field like PSU design or reliabilitry.

Berxit, Govt regs, energy costs and high freingt costs have killed the business of electronics and especially PS mfg in UK and EU. USA went long ago.

Just my thoughts,

Jon

Talking to a friend at the weekend who works as a maintenance engineer in industry, and his take on this is in agreement with Jon.

He says that a younger guy he works with is taking a vocational course to become an electrician that is being paid for by his company. This person is very keen to succeed, and is doing very well regards test grades, but it is mostly down to a great deal of effort to self teach on the part of this student, the course only appears to be teaching domestic electrical work, with very little industrial/distribution content in the syllabus, which it is supposed to cover

The really astounding thing is that during his last year the tutor has gone missing with no explanation and no replacement!

This is Norwich City College to keep things topical, I'm prepared to call this one out because its 100 genuine and its letting people down, though I do hear horror stories about other institutions.

After a few weeks an administrator was sent to sit in so that the course could continue, with the students learning solely from text books and you tubers!

Now, the likes of Dave Jones and John Ward are excellent educators in their fields but FFS its not them who are being paid for this course.

Further, as the course is vocational, and those attending are basically job apprentices, there is no hands on practical training done at college whatsoever.

The thing is, further education in the UK is so expensive for students to go into, plus its quality and relevance being so poor, its no surprise to me when I'm told that a student from Bangalore who achieves an AMIE is a better rounded candidate for a job than a UK student who achieved a B Tech equivalent.

Things have really gone down the shitter in the last 10 years IMHO.

As for the OP question is it worthwhile? I make my living out of the work, but I'd agree the pond is getting smaller.
~~~~~~~

To the OP.

You do start some off beat threads, but credit where its due some of the side discussions that are brought up are first rate 
(Soup and chef's salad today please)

Apologies for the rant and poor grammar, I'm a product of the British education system myself 

Regards,
Xena.

[AVGresponding]

Talking to a friend at the weekend who works as a maintenance engineer in industry, and his take on this is in agreement with Jon.

He says that a younger guy he works with is taking a vocational course to become an electrician that is being paid for by his company. This person is very keen to succeed, and is doing very well regards test grades, but it is mostly down to a great deal of effort to self teach on the part of this student, the course only appears to be teaching domestic electrical work, with very little industrial/distribution content in the syllabus, which it is supposed to cover

The really astounding thing is that during his last year the tutor has gone missing with no explanation and no replacement!

This is Norwich City College to keep things topical, I'm prepared to call this one out because its 100 genuine and its letting people down, though I do hear horror stories about other institutions.

After a few weeks an administrator was sent to sit in so that the course could continue, with the students learning solely from text books and you tubers!

Now, the likes of Dave Jones and John Ward are excellent educators in their fields but FFS its not them who are being paid for this course.

Further, as the course is vocational, and those attending are basically job apprentices, there is no hands on practical training done at college whatsoever.

The thing is, further education in the UK is so expensive for students to go into, plus its quality and relevance being so poor, its no surprise to me when I'm told that a student from Bangalore who achieves an AMIE is a better rounded candidate for a job than a UK student who achieved a B Tech equivalent.

Things have really gone down the shitter in the last 10 years IMHO.

Apologies for the rant and poor grammar, I'm a product of the British education system myself 

Regards,
Xena.

Sadly this is pretty common. I work for a large northern metropolitan council as an electrician, and I can tell you the apprentices we have had over the last dozen years or so have always been variable in terms of intelligence, work ethic etc, but the colleges have become really quite bad.

They teach them nothing about the commercial/industrial side, leaving it for us to teach them on site. Hell, they don't even teach them basic tool use. The tutors lose the students work, don't answer phone calls or emails, and from what I've seen of site visits, know little of the subject they are allegedly teaching.

It got so bad that a couple of years ago we changed the college we get our apprentices from, and now use a neighbouring city's instead of our own. So far, so good, but I'm so cynical about it now, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop, all the time.

[coppice]

They teach them nothing about the commercial/industrial side, leaving it for us to teach them on site. Hell, they don't even teach them basic tool use. The tutors lose the students work, don't answer phone calls or emails, and from what I've seen of site visits, know little of the subject they are allegedly teaching.

Hardly anyone in a UK University does real experiments any more. Its all modelling and simulation. Between the cost and the health and safely people, labs have been marginalised. I expect similar dynamics are at play in the colleges below university level, but even more so. Tools have real sharp edges to upset the health and safety people.

[themadhippy]

his last year

Further, as the course is vocational, and those attending are basically job apprentices, there is no hands on practical training done at college whatsoever.

There never was any  practical training in the last years ,first year yes to  ,to pass your AM1 showing you can at least do the basics ,then its up to you and the firm your working with to get as much practical experience from the ole boys as possible before doing your AM2

the course only appears to be teaching domestic electrical work, with very little industrial/distribution content in the syllabus

sounds like there on the wrong course,.

 One of my rants about the electrical industry is the shift towards only dealing with a small section of the trade.Back when i was an apprentice domestic electrician was almost unheard of,you were an electrician,whether it was wrestling  a 400mm swa around a factory or putting a light in someones loft if it was electrical you was expected to be able to do it.

[coppice]

One of my rants about the electrical industry is the shift towards only dealing with a small section of the trade.Back when i was an apprentice domestic electrician was almost unheard of,you were an electrician,whether it was wrestling  a 400mm swa around a factory or putting a light in someones loft if it was electrical you was expected to be able to do it.

The electricians who do heavy industrial stuff have always done the low power stuff that accompanies it as well. However, most electricians have only ever handled low power wiring for homes, offices, and light industrial. Most have never had any training or experience handling high power systems. That is a niche job compared to installing and maintaining millions of tributary circuits.

[tggzzz]

They teach them nothing about the commercial/industrial side, leaving it for us to teach them on site. Hell, they don't even teach them basic tool use. The tutors lose the students work, don't answer phone calls or emails, and from what I've seen of site visits, know little of the subject they are allegedly teaching.

Hardly anyone in a UK University does real experiments any more. Its all modelling and simulation. Between the cost and the health and safely people, labs have been marginalised. I expect similar dynamics are at play in the colleges below university level, but even more so. Tools have real sharp edges to upset the health and safety people.

I went back to Southampton University on an open day in 2018. It was great to talk to undergrads in the Electronic[1] Labs, which were full of decent Tektronix kit.

Just as in my day, they are expected to use any/all of it as appropriate, and they can also come in and use it to test home projects. The only major difference is that the final year project is a team project, not an individual project.

Overall I was amazed and pleased that the general ethos had survived.

[1] not electrical. That used to be a different faculty; not sure about now.

[coppice]

They teach them nothing about the commercial/industrial side, leaving it for us to teach them on site. Hell, they don't even teach them basic tool use. The tutors lose the students work, don't answer phone calls or emails, and from what I've seen of site visits, know little of the subject they are allegedly teaching.

Hardly anyone in a UK University does real experiments any more. Its all modelling and simulation. Between the cost and the health and safely people, labs have been marginalised. I expect similar dynamics are at play in the colleges below university level, but even more so. Tools have real sharp edges to upset the health and safety people.

I went back to Southampton University on an open day in 2018. It was great to talk to undergrads in the Electronic[1] Labs, which were full of decent Tektronix kit.

Just as in my day, they are expected to use any/all of it as appropriate, and they can also come in and use it to test home projects. The only major difference is that the final year project is a team project, not an individual project.

Overall I was amazed and pleased that the general ethos had survived.

[1] not electrical. That used to be a different faculty; not sure about now.

Undergrads in most unis still seem to do the basic rote experiments, which everyone replicates, just as in the past. Try looking at their final year projects, where the work is less controlled, the costs are higher, and the health and safety people have more to complain about. Try looking at the masters and PhD people doing more advanced things. 10 years ago I was interacting with a group of UK engineering academics for something, and chatting over a meal the discussion was mostly about how they were incapable of doing anything but simulation any more. 2 were finding themselves being driven out of academia by the frustration this caused.

[nctnico]

One of my rants about the electrical industry is the shift towards only dealing with a small section of the trade.Back when i was an apprentice domestic electrician was almost unheard of,you were an electrician,whether it was wrestling  a 400mm swa around a factory or putting a light in someones loft if it was electrical you was expected to be able to do it.

Then again, the work of an electrician has widened a lot. Think about PLCs, data networks, motor drives, home automation, etc, etc. The work of a modern day electrician covers way more than hooking up wires.

But even in the old days specialisation was an issue. One of my family members used to be an electrician. If one of his colleagues ran into a system with a couple of relays that had a problem, my family member was called in as he had the knowledge & insight on how to troubleshoot such systems. This was before PLCs became popular so the system often had a bunch of (pneumatic) time-delayed relays in them for sequencing events. A contact or time delay gone bad, or a coil burned out wasn't quite so obvious to find for those not familiar.

[Xena E]

his last year

Further, as the course is vocational, and those attending are basically job apprentices, there is no hands on practical training done at college whatsoever.

There never was any  practical training in the last years ,first year yes to  ,to pass your AM1 showing you can at least do the basics ,then its up to you and the firm your working with to get as much practical experience from the ole boys as possible before doing your AM2

the course only appears to be teaching domestic electrical work, with very little industrial/distribution content in the syllabus

sounds like there on the wrong course,.

 One of my rants about the electrical industry is the shift towards only dealing with a small section of the trade.Back when i was an apprentice domestic electrician was almost unheard of,you were an electrician,whether it was wrestling  a 400mm swa around a factory or putting a light in someones loft if it was electrical you was expected to be able to do it.

Please don't select and match random quotes.
 
The individual is in his last year but to be perfectly clear there has been no practical training provided by the college whatsoever since day one! It has all been classroom taught theory.

Not on the wrong course even, just a shit course!

Learning the jargon, the regulations, H&S (and not even applicable H&S), and college equality and diversity bullshit, seems to be all they have done.

I'm aware that a lot of the coursework practical has to be done within the workplace and then presented, but the trainee in question had been hastled for not presenting the soft shoe work, and the industrial side is glossed over, with the other apprentices.

On the job training these people are doing doesn't include the trainees actually doing the work, they are not allowed to even assist, if they do they're not supposed to log the hours as training.

Would you want a kid who has passed the ticket like that with the price labels still on his tools pissing about with 415 3ø switchgear, or even fitting a plug?

The other point was the professionalism of the institution who haven't even got a tutor available to take the final year, cos their guy has pissed off to fit EV chargers, climb frigging Everest or have a baby or something!

All credit to the ones who pass they must be doing it off their own backs, but I wonder what the pass mark percentage is such that people do still pass?

[Nominal Animal]

It's the same problem all over Western education, from kindergarten to universities.

Practical understanding, and the ability to apply your knowledge to solve practical problems, is seen as neglible importance compared to appearances and social awareness and everything else.

The only reason I, basically a functional potato, was successful in the IT/software development/product development business, was because I didn't go by what the clients told me.  I somehow managed to investigate their actual practical needs, and address those instead.  Talking to artists, I learned how to use technical know-how and understanding the limits to guide them toward an achievable result without violating their vision/idea, and they really liked working with me.  (Except for one, who liked to exhort students to "be real humans, and not just students".)

If I can do it, it cannot be that hard.

What is hard, is convincing the administrators, leaders, and political figures that this is what works, and that their flimsy-flamsy talky-talky appearances-centered reality-ignoring crap doesn't.  So many of them are the 'Hyacinth "Bouquet" Bucket' of their positions it is uncanny.  Hints are welcome, if you've managed to do that.

[Xena E]

...I didn't go by what the clients told me.  I somehow managed to investigate their actual practical needs, and address those instead.

This is my MO! my job success is founded on this principle, the PTB don't seem to get it though.

One of the directors is a dick who's mantra is "give the customer what he wants".

Fuck no, give them what they need! There's nearly always a difference.

[Faringdon]

Lawrence Scott and Electromotors.

Manufacturer of electric motors, drives, and power products.

Still in the city in name, and yes taken over several times, now distributors of products made abroad...

..thanks, but i dont think it was Lawrence Scott...i think it was one of three companies, (which i wont mention as i am not sure which) but all three may be the same company, i am not sure.....thats if all three still exist.

[Xena E]

Lawrence Scott and Electromotors.

Manufacturer of electric motors, drives, and power products.

Still in the city in name, and yes taken over several times, now distributors of products made abroad...

..thanks, but i dont think it was Lawrence Scott...i think it was one of three companies, (which i wont mention as i am not sure which) but all three may be the same company, i am not sure.....thats if all three still exist.

Ooh go on lover boy!
Name them all,
Don't be coy!
They'll love the publicity,
The people that didn't Faringdon employ.

💕

Don't be late if you want a lift in the morning