Possible to trigger at battery explosions in pagers ?

[Karel]

It may be that nothing with manufacturers installed batteries would be allowed, a return to the replaceable commodity batteries in phones needing purchase after your travel.

That will be a PITA.

The positive side would be that cellphone manufacturers would offer again models with an easy to replace battery
which I would welcome, even if it makes is a bit bigger.

[Phil1977]

The idea of improvised explosive devices is everything but not new.

It´s new that you get a device that completely looks and feels like a product of standard global electronic manufacturing. Even if you make it possible that new devices needs to be easy to be disassembled, what do you think how many people are qualified to distinguish a buffer capacitor from a bomblet?

I think if attacks like that happen more often then politicians have a good reason to shut down free global trade. There will be no AliExpress any more if each delivery from a non-certified manufacturer will be blocked or if the buyer needs to pay a detailed scan for explosives or poisons.

[coppercone2]

I think you are over reacting, its two groups fighting that have been at each others throats for the last 1000 years. you could pay off a janitor to leave a door open so you can plant all the sabotage you ever wanted when the situation is as bad as it is over there for as long as it has been regardless of all the import export restrictions that can be made up.


A state that shuts down trade will simply implode, with people storming the gates in order to get discount washing machines. They already storm the stores and burn them down if the prices are too high in a normal market

That is a good way to literary destroy a country, stop trading and lock the borders. Where did I hear the government decided reasonably priced goods are not a requirement for a functioning society.....? The Vyatka-12 effort did not solve the problem !

[Andy Chee]

I think you are over reacting, its two groups fighting that have been at each others throats for the last 1000 years.

I think you're missing the point.  Israel has yet to guarantee that their rigged devices are only contained to Hezbollah.

Until Israel explains* how they infiltrated the supply chain, there could well be un-detonated devices circulating in the global market beyond their intended Hezbollah targets.

*not necessarily explain to us, but at least to CIA, MI6, or other world intelligence agencies

[coppercone2]

don't drag me into that, I am responding to the poster above me

[Andy Chee]

don't drag me into that, I am responding to the poster above me

The poster said that free trade would need to be shut down.

In the interests of preventing untraceable explosives from entering the marketplace, I am inclined to agree that halting free trade may be an unintended consequence.

Until all rigged pagers and radios are accounted for, the global marketplace is not safe.  Free trade will be slowed down by X-ray machines, chemical sniffers and bomb detecting dogs.

[Phil1977]

I said *if* this type of attack spreads around the world - and I really hope it doesn't.

I just think this because so far global trade works well while authorities are trying to protect people from the worst accidents like poisoned food or child toys. But if large organisations would start to distribute harmful goods on purpose, then things will change.

And though some people may like the idea of no foreign products in their country, it would extremely rise the prices of everything technological and lower the quality. In a too well protected market where only complicatedly selected people may sell you have no free choice, you have to take what other people think is good for you. And I think there are enough examples in history that this doesn't work well.

[IOsetting]

Golden Apollo might have something to do with it

https://www.cw.com.tw/article/5111852

However, there are manufacturers in Taiwan that continue to work intensively, making the pager number one in the United States and second in Europe. Even the FBI is a customer of it, and its gross profit margin is not inferior to that of HTC and MediaTek.

In fact, Golden Apollo's market development is almost entirely through cooperation with overseas agents, and it has repeatedly won cases from the FBI in the United States and fire bureaus in European countries.

[IOsetting]

If it is for this purpose, there will be plenty of better ways to *destroy* the device instead of making it so explosive

TLDR: a theory that Hezbollah wanted the pagers to be explodable when they bought them, as a security destruction mechanism.

[MT]

This was either a membership control own goal, or a very cunning bit of logistics. I don't know why anyone is amazed by it? The technology is relatively simple, it's only the planning that was problematic.

It's amazing because they spent several years setting up a front company that bought the rights to the pager brand and then arranged the manufacture rights as well, and then designed and made 5000 of them with charges inside with remote trigger capability, and then made sure they were the trusted provider who got thousands of these things into people's hands without getting detected.
It's very impressive.

BTW, don't be surprised to see changes in regards to security screening electronics equipment at airports as a result.

At a first glance it might look like that but you could also argue the sloppiness of Hezzbolla security intel was at rock bottom...Twice! While Hungarian intel didnt knew anything? Or pretended not to?
Any intel organisations worth it's name keeps an eye on what Aman/Unit8200 up to and have set up heir own front companies for very long time, one example was CIA who set up a barrage of shell
companies  to purchase materials like titan etc that was need for the SR71 project.  One supplier of titan was Soviet union. The soviets most likely new about that and saw this as an
opportunity to get dollar for their own front companies just like North Korea does to day under heavy sanctions still makes c:a 1b USD a year in profit.

The MIC (Military Industrial Complex) has it's ways and methods.

Lebanon airport first out:
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/israel-lebanon-hezbollah-pagers-walkie-talkies-banned-on-flights-from-lebanon-after-deadly-blasts-6606808

[madires]

Update on BAC Consulting:
- is a letterbox company (tons of other letterbox companies in same street)
- founded in March 2022
- shipping of pagers allegedly done by Norta Global (in Bulgaria, another letterbox company)
- Taiwanese media reports about a mysterious couple who made the initial contact with Gold Apollo

Source: https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/ndr-wdr/israel-hisbollah-pager-100.html (in German)

[mikeselectricstuff]

There will probably be plenty of dumb knee-jerk reactions like banning pagers, when a pager is the very last thing anyone would boobytrap now it's happened & people move on to the next thing to hide bad stuff inside.
By bet is on vapes.

[Andy Chee]

By bet is on vapes.

Explosives in vapes is the probably the wrong strategy. 

If you're going to booby trap vapes, better to lace the vape fluid with polonium or other poison.

[Zucca]

“One of Italy’s top security experts, Umberto Rapetto, a former commander of the high-tech crime unit of the Guardia di Finanza...

Well after living in Italy for 23 years, take whatever comes from the "Guardia di Finanza" with a big pinch of salt.

[Njk]

TLDR: a theory that Hezbollah wanted the pagers to be explodable when they bought them, as a security destruction mechanism.

Very probable indeed. Otherwise, it would be extremely stupid from the business perspective. Obviously, there is not enough room to plant a lethal charge (in pagers anyway), as the device must remain fully functional. What the explosion will destroy for sure is the device itself. 5000 devices exploded and only about ten casualties. It's unlikely each was a militant. Low mortality rate, high collateral damage. It will only make the militia infuriated and incentivize the retaliate actions. While it'll take quite long time and high expenses to organize the event. Does not make sense. But if you'd learned about the explosion codes and going to start a war with those guys anyway, it makes perfect sense.

I'd been in Tel Aviv on several occasions, to work at the industrial park next to the airport. In the very beginning, I was warned that the folks in that region are hard on virtually anything and can be very demanding. One must keep that in mind all the time. On one occasion, a one-week trip was planned but I'd spent there four months. Enough time to develop some opinions based on the moments of everyday life. In general, I agree with that evaluation.

[jonovid]

C4 plastic explosive can be made to look like a lithium battery, be part of the battery with the battery pack reduced in size.
so the device is still functional. so any consumer electronics with a lithium battery can be modified into a booby trap.
lethality can also be increased by adding biological agents in glass capsules that look like electrolytic capacitors.
booby traps that are or look like everyday items, are not new in war.
in The Second World War the Luftwaffe dropped colorful butterfly bombs that looked like kids toys.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/home-front-1939-1945-part-one/butterfly-bomb/

[Kleinstein]

I think you are over reacting, its two groups fighting that have been at each others throats for the last 1000 years.

I think you're missing the point.  Israel has yet to guarantee that their rigged devices are only contained to Hezbollah.

Until Israel explains* how they infiltrated the supply chain, there could well be un-detonated devices circulating in the global market beyond their intended Hezbollah targets.

*not necessarily explain to us, but at least to CIA, MI6, or other world intelligence agencies

It looks like the expolsive pagers were delivered directly to hezbollah in something like a single order and not too long ago. So chances are high than not many devices have diffused away. After all with an internal number there is not much sense in stealing or selling such a pager. They are often also limited to a region / signal provider to have reception.
There are likely still a few unexpoded ones. One is duds that failed to explode. Others did not have reception (e.g. down in a tunnel or empty battery) and than possibly residual stock that was never activated. At least the model is known - so airports could identify the model them relatively easy.

Once send out, there was always a danger of getting detected (e.g. at an airport or damaged devices or failing batteries). So Israel could not wait very long to make them explode.

I don't see a need to destroy the devices with an explosive. For just disabeling a simple software / memory version would be enough. There are enough ways to brick a µC to make it unusable. There is also very little information saved on the pagers - maybe the last few messages, that would be easy to delete. There may be a low mortallity rate, but the injuries are quite severe in many cases, at least to have the persons out of action.
Compared to missiles send to the location of cell phones this attak is quite well targeted: not that many victims outside of Hezbollah.

[madires]

Regarding POCSAG, modern pagers support AES 128 encryption.

[argmdq]

As days go by and learning about this letterbox company in Hungary with a license to manufacture, the building part seems more clear.

I guess if BAC had a license to manufacture GA pagers they would get everything needed to make the pagers(BOM, Gerbers, firmware binaries,source code??), maybe even whole PCBs if the agreement was to just assemble them. They could modify the firmware to trigger on a specific broadcast message.

But then how do you make the Hezbollah source from the pagers you have ?

Would they wait for an order and swap the original pagers for the modified ones? or approach hezbollah somehow to get the order in the first place?

And the pagers blew up around the country, so they must have found a way to send the trigger message using Hezbollah's transmitters infrastructure.  Or how could they transmit the trigger message over such a large area?

Anyway, really like a movie, amazing work of intelligence and engineering

[Andy Chee]

But then how do you make the Hezbollah source from the pagers you have ?

Would they wait for an order and swap the original pagers for the modified ones? or approach hezbollah somehow to get the order in the first place?

Undoubtedly there is a human intelligence element to this entire operation. 

I imagine that a deeply implanted Israeli undercover spy agent with high level Hezbollah access, has strongly suggested to those in charge, that the cause of the January/July assassinations was due to cell phone tracking, and recommended that everyone be issued with new pagers.  And conveniently, that spy agent has recommended a supplier for such pagers.

[Stray Electron]

It would be so interesting to get the hands on some unexploded samples.

It is also worth noting that this is essentially one time attack. Once it is used, the cover is blown. The decision to activate it must not be an easy one.

  No, it's not a one time attack. If they're even half intelligent the Palestinians (and many others!) will never again trust a cell phone, pager, walkie talkie or any other electronics device from now and until doomsday so in reality this means they will never again be able use any form of electronic communications so this will have to fundamentally change how they plan and coordinate their attacks. So even if another attack like this one never happens again, everyone will have to change the way that they operate.

   What this really means is that ANY electronic device that is capable or receiving a signal in any form can now potentially be used to create a remote control bomb.  Think of all of your wi-fi, internet or radio connected devices such as your Atomic Clocks, routers, computers, solar system micro inverters, wi-fi connected refrigerators, GPSs, laptops, security cameras, etc etc etc and then think of the potential for any of them to be made into a bomb. Even large devices such as your automobile computers could potentially made into a remote control bomb and potentially very massive ones. The implications of these attacks are HUGE and not just for the Palestinians.  Just imagine that the Palestinian terrorists decide to convert a bunch of Wi-Fi routers into bombs and to sell to households in say France and then simultaneously detonate 10,000 of them at some point to make a political statement.

[ataradov]

will never again trust a cell phone, pager, walkie talkie or any other electronics device from now

Why? You just place in place screening procedures and may be proactively replace the batteries before use.

It would be really stupid to limit your communication options because of one incident. Imagine if US banned airplanes after 9/11.

In fact, I expect this to just push them to take a second look at the communications infrastructure and explore more secure communication option, may be using custom apps with encryption. At least that's what I would do.

[Bud]

And the pagers blew up around the country, so they must have found a way to send the trigger message using Hezbollah's transmitters infrastructure.  Or how could they transmit the trigger message over such a large area?

By using a programmed timer. No need to hack the infrastructure. The ICOM radios did not have a transmitting infrastructure, yet still blew up.

[Andy Chee]

And the pagers blew up around the country, so they must have found a way to send the trigger message using Hezbollah's transmitters infrastructure.  Or how could they transmit the trigger message over such a large area?

By using a programmed timer. No need to hack the infrastructure. The ICOM radios did not have a transmitting infrastructure, yet still blew up.

The ICOM radios had a receiver.  They could receive a broadcast transmission to detonate.  This broadcast signal could potentially be transmitted from an overhead Israeli drone.

[Andy Chee]

so in reality this means they will never again be able use any form of electronic communications so this will have to fundamentally change how they plan and coordinate their attacks.

The fundamental mistake Hezbollah made from this incident, was to rely on a single source supplier of equipment.

Of course, being a terrorist listed organisation, Hezbollah is probably unable to procure equipment from Digikey or Lowes like normal people, so they may have no choice in suppliers.