Author Topic: OT Rosetta arrives at comet  (Read 34564 times)

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Offline Homer J SimpsonTopic starter

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OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« on: August 06, 2014, 03:18:20 pm »
Imagine all of the math involved in calculating the trajectory to make this happen.

10 years and 6.4 billion kilometers of travel. Two earth flybys and one mars flyby. traveling at 55,000 km/hr.

Enter orbit around a comet 4 km wide.

Probe also caries a surface lander.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Rosetta/Rosetta_arrives_at_comet_destination




 

Offline SeanB

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 03:56:27 pm »
Yes, they got it right, and everything is still working as designed.  Shows what you can do with a good design team and good cooperation with the people who put it together and operate it.
 

Offline ncoonrod14

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 05:30:23 pm »
Not to mention 1 billion euros to date. That helps  ;)
 

Offline PA0PBZ

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 05:56:44 pm »
This is a great visualisation of what they did:

http://sci.esa.int/where_is_rosetta/

Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline corrado33

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 08:05:29 pm »
That's super cool. They really used a ton of gravity assists to get it out there! I love the simulation posted above.

I can barely hit any other planet in Kerbal Space program, let alone a comet in real life.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 05:35:38 am »
A nice hi-re pic of the comet: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1408/comet_on_3_august_2014.png

Presumably more and better to follow.

I hope the lander ends up somewhere with a good view of that cleft. Difficult landing problem though.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:00:05 am by EEVblog »
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Offline EEVblog

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Offline pickle9000

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 05:45:59 am »
Amazing!
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2014, 05:50:13 am »
This is a great visualisation of what they did:

http://sci.esa.int/where_is_rosetta/

 :-+ :-+

They even have the ecliptic at the right angle with the milky way equator, at least as viewed from the northern hemisphere.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2014, 07:26:32 am »
Wonderful to see that the theoretically simulation/calculation worked out.
You never know what is floating out there for debris and space rock that could have crashed into the device before reaching it's target. No time or fuel for real time trajectory changes. Even some of the vapour and rocks from the comet itself could destroy the device.
And then after launch you have to wait for 10 years before you know if everything you did back then was correct (software/hardware/calculations). Unbelievable.
I do wonder what hardware/microcontroller(s) were used and how they are protected from the cosmic radiation.
 

Offline KedasProbe

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2014, 08:57:09 am »
The cool stuff still has to happen: getting very close and land a probe on it  :-/O.
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
[W. Bruce Cameron]
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 09:27:17 am »
Wonderful to see that the theoretically simulation/calculation worked out.
You never know what is floating out there for debris and space rock that could have crashed into the device before reaching it's target. No time or fuel for real time trajectory changes. Even some of the vapour and rocks from the comet itself could destroy the device.
And then after launch you have to wait for 10 years before you know if everything you did back then was correct (software/hardware/calculations). Unbelievable.
I do wonder what hardware/microcontroller(s) were used and how they are protected from the cosmic radiation.

Whilst I can't answer your specific questions on processors, anything used on a project like that will be old tech. The technology will already have been used on a previous satellite and established a heritage. Without that heritage then it won't get used. Radiation shielding is done using a combination of robust silicon and packages with gold lids. The closer to the device the gold shield is, the smaller it can be so the less it weighs. Weight and proof of reliability are the two most important things on a spacecraft.

Given that this craft was launched 10 years ago, so first testing would have been three years before that, on a device that had already established heritage, then the processor is likely to be either a programmable device using 20 year old technology or a 20 year old processor.

It may have been easier to have piled the documentation for Rosetta into a staircase and catch the comet as it went past.

Offline corrado33

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 12:55:55 pm »
Wonderful to see that the theoretically simulation/calculation worked out.
You never know what is floating out there for debris and space rock that could have crashed into the device before reaching it's target. No time or fuel for real time trajectory changes. Even some of the vapour and rocks from the comet itself could destroy the device.
And then after launch you have to wait for 10 years before you know if everything you did back then was correct (software/hardware/calculations). Unbelievable.
I do wonder what hardware/microcontroller(s) were used and how they are protected from the cosmic radiation.

As it turns out, space is REALLY empty. Even the infamous asteroid belt you could easily fly straight through. The spacecraft ARE getting hit by micrometeors all of the time, just look at some of the satellites sent up by the Soviets and the US. Many of them had sensors to detect small impacts.

As for the electronics, as posted above, it'll be very old tech. The tech for satellites spends years getting radiation hardened, so even if they started the project with new hardware, it'd still be old by the time they launched it.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2014, 02:09:43 pm »
Professor Copeland (Sixty Symbols) comments about Rosetta:



 

Offline SeanB

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 05:02:42 pm »
Processor is probably a space rated 80386, as that is the processor that was rated for deep space and hard radiation 15 years ago, replacing the 80286 processor. Yes, old but very reliable.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:31:18 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline bwat

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 06:39:28 pm »
The lander (Philae) uses the radiation-hardened Harris RTX2010 microprocessor made by Intersil.
Koopman's excellent Stack Computers, The New Wave covers an earlier version, the RTX2000. The author has been kind enough to put the book online: http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/. Anybody interested in CPU design should read the book; it's a good read, a bit dated but still worth it IMHO. I actually looked at it earlier today to check something out and was quite amazed when I recognised the name of the chip from your post this evening. I think this is the first time I've read about this chip outside the confines of that book.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:42:41 pm by bwat »
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Offline nctnico

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 12:23:22 am »
Wonderful to see that the theoretically simulation/calculation worked out.
You never know what is floating out there for debris and space rock that could have crashed into the device before reaching it's target. No time or fuel for real time trajectory changes. Even some of the vapour and rocks from the comet itself could destroy the device.
And then after launch you have to wait for 10 years before you know if everything you did back then was correct (software/hardware/calculations). Unbelievable.
Calculating trajectories with gravity pull seems to be relatively easy. There is no wind or friction from an atmosphere. The existence and orbit of some of the other planets which where not visible back then have been predicted by using similar calculations.
Quote
I do wonder what hardware/microcontroller(s) were used and how they are protected from the cosmic radiation.
Mostly old stuff with large geometries so that traces or transistors on a chip don't get damaged from the impact of a particle. A couple of decades ago I got a private tour in a clean room where they where assembling a satellite (the ERS1 IIRC) and I asked the same question  :)
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 12:51:03 am »
The lander (Philae) uses the radiation-hardened Harris RTX2010 microprocessor made by Intersil.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/234265387_Embedded_Computer_System_on_the_Rosetta_Spacecraft

Code written in FORTH!  :o
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2014, 04:52:27 am »
Uses a stack and RPN arithmetic logic like the programmable HP calculators of that period.  :-+
 

Offline Kremmen

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2014, 05:19:39 am »
Here http://space.fmi.fi/index.php?id=27  is a pic and brief description of the mass memory board of the Philae lander, made by the space division of Finnish Meteo Institute. They went for robustness instead of miniaturizing the heck out of it.
Another pic http://space.fmi.fi/index.php?id=29 of the Ion Composition Analyzer controller board prototype. Looks like they went for an Actel A1280 FPGA on this one. Someone might recognize the MCU used (one of the chips is bound to be one).
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2014, 07:43:15 am »
Wow those boards are a beauty, looks more like military spec with all those metal can packages.
That is a totally different league.  :clap:
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2014, 09:25:03 am »
I've done a few bits of design work for satellites, so I'll give a brief overview of the design process.

An initial design will be done and carefully analyzed and any interesting areas will have a breadboard or prototype made.. Nothing different there from a commercial project.

Then the real; fun starts with the documentation. Design description, which would include everything from a general overview to the calculations used to determine the value of every component on the board, simulations, results from the breadboards and explanations for any differences. Then there's the Compliance Matrix, worse case analysis, parts stress analysis, radiation analysis, MTBF calculations and so on. It's been a while and I'm sure I've missed out a few of the design documents. Further documents will include plans for further stages, so a test plan for an amplifier would say that it will be tested at nominal, max and min supply voltages, and at various levels and frequencies with an assortment of specified waveforms and at what temperatures.

At that point, it's time for the first formal design review, with the customer, possibly the end customer and also critical suppliers.

About the same time, there's a whole pile of process and parts work happening. Each process needs to be space qualified. If you don't have an up to date certificate to say you can hand solder 0402 resistors with Sn53, and another with a certificate for inspecting the same then it doesn't happen. Before the iron is even turned on the documentation will need to specify solder and flux types. If the board assembly is on a P^P and reflow then that line will need space qualifying.

LAT testing, or Lot Approval Testing will be going on. For each reel or tube of components a few will be taken and subjected to an accelerated life test. If one component from that lot fails, the whole lot is binned and a new lot tested. The accelerated life tests typically take 12 weeks, so a failure means a three month delay on the project. Ideally you pick what parts you need early on and get the LAT testing done early. Sometimes you need to change a resistor value, so the wise but expensive move is to LAT test more components than you need.

Before production of the flight hardware starts then the second big design review happens. All the previously mentioned documentation is updated, usually by this stage a proper prototype that is intended to meet spec has been made and electrically tested with some temperature testing added in, along with any other testing that is required by the customer to provide confidence. Additional documentation would include the Test procedure, which would take the Test plan and fill in exactly what measurements are to be made, what equipment is to be used and test limits.

Only after that design review will production of the flight hardware proceed.

The testing of parts that are going into space is tedious. On a commercial product, designs are tested at ambient and at temperature extremes. For a space project, they are tested over a wider temperature range every 10 or 20 degrees C and in vacuum, in a Thermal Vacuum (TVAC) chamber, Usually the equipment needs to be watched whilst it is in the chamber, so the three hour wait for the temperature to stabilize is tedious, I've read a lot of books in the wait time, and ate a lot of snacks and put on 20kgs.

The vibration testing is fun. Launch vibration is so high that no-one is allowed in the same room at the vibration table when it's operating and from the next room it actually sounds like a rocket taking off.

Finally all the test results, and process verification documentation is collated and a final design review is carried out. A typical module in a satellite will generate about 10m high of paperwork. There are a lot of modules in a small satellite and there's more paperwork involved as the modules are integrated and tested.

What I like about doing design work for space applications is that you don't get caught out at the end of a design due to skimping on analysis early on. You never need to do a quick board respin as a resistor is dissipating more power than previously anticipated. Designed get done properly. What I don't like is the huge amount of testing required. When pen plotters where the normal way to record a result, I know of someone who had done 9000 of the required 11000 plots when he was told that the project had been cancelled. Fortunately GPIB measuring is now the norm.


Offline HP-ILnerd

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2014, 11:00:22 am »
Of course, NASA has been known to over-do it on the analysis:

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2011/KSC-MSL-2011-0045.pdf
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: OT Rosetta arrives at comet
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 12:28:58 pm »
Of course, NASA has been known to over-do it on the analysis:

http://images.spaceref.com/news/2011/KSC-MSL-2011-0045.pdf
Well sice they have no more spaceship accidents to investigate and clearly they still have their jobs they can better keep their skills up to date with other assignments .
 


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