nuke mars?

[Buriedcode]

Don't forget there isn't enough fissile material on the planet to make enough weapons to "destroy Earth", let alone enough for terraforming Mars.  Its another Elon troll click-bait thing - and people are buying it 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah I don't think he's actually serious, he's probably just humouring the idea for sake of discussion.

Imagine the risk of launching a rocket with a nuclear bomb big enough to affect another planet.  That risk alone would be too big if the launch went wrong.

[coppercone2]

you can theoretically assemble it outside of mars with robots with a limited range but still

[EEVblog]

Don't forget there isn't enough fissile material on the planet to make enough weapons to "destroy Earth", let alone enough for terraforming Mars.  Its another Elon troll click-bait thing - and people are buying it 

The idea is to melt and throw up a bunch of ice in the polar regions and when it spreads the extra stuff in the atmosphere does the rest using a really big thermonuclear bomb called the sun.
It's not about the energy in the actual weapon directly heating the planet.

[EEVblog]

Imagine the risk of launching a rocket with a nuclear bomb big enough to affect another planet.  That risk alone would be too big if the launch went wrong.

If something goes wrong at launch the nuke doesn't go critical.
It's insanely hard to make a thermonuclear nuke deliver it's design yield.
When the Damascus silo nuke exploded they found the warhead hundreds of feet away intact.

[coppercone2]

why would you build it here, if you are building it to colonize mars you can spend the money to assemble it in space without reach to earth

[EEVblog]

why would you build it here, if you are building it to colonize mars you can spend the money to assemble it in space without reach to earth

It doesn't matter if you assemble it here, the impact if it explodes on take-off would be the same regardless (i.e. it's trivial to ensure it can't go critical)

[MosherIV]

if you are building it to colonize mars you can spend the money to assemble it in space

Why do people think we can colonize mars 

It has almost no atmosphere. Not enough for humans to survive.
The magnetic core has gone, letting the solar winds further strip the planet of atmosphere.
The temperature is too cold for humans.
There is not enough water  on the planet to survive on.
The gravity is only 0.3G meaning anyone living on the planet will loose bone mass. Anyone growing up on the planet will be too weak to ever come to earth.

It would be easier to build giant space stations like the 2001 or Elysium than it would to try and live on Mars

If you are going to build stuff in space - why would you both doing it just to nuke another  planet that is no suitable for human habitation.
Just build space stationS to live in.

[EEVblog]

If you are going to build stuff in space - why would you both doing it just to nuke another  planet that is no suitable for human habitation.
Just build space stationS to live in.

The whole point is about terraforming a planet over the long term, which in theory is possible.

[Mr. Scram]

Yes!
There is no mammalian life there, so the moral argument comes down to what we do with a frozen rock, or maybe some potential microbes if we find any.
Of course we'd do whatever we have to there if it meant the survival of the human race.
In fact one moral argument is that we must do whatever we can to survive, due to the seeming rarity of intelligent life in the universe.

https://youtu.be/1vmnp7ghGPk?t=62

That's hardly an argument is we're the ones driving our own planet off the cliff. Not to mention the moral implications of destroying the only other life we'd know.

[EEVblog]

Yes!
There is no mammalian life there, so the moral argument comes down to what we do with a frozen rock, or maybe some potential microbes if we find any.
Of course we'd do whatever we have to there if it meant the survival of the human race.
In fact one moral argument is that we must do whatever we can to survive, due to the seeming rarity of intelligent life in the universe.

https://youtu.be/1vmnp7ghGPk?t=62

That's hardly an argument is we're the ones driving our own planet off the cliff. Not to mention the moral implications of destroying the only other life we'd know.

So, let ourselves become extinct because of guilt?
You go first Indy...

[Mr. Scram]

So, let ourselves become extinct because of guilt?
You go first Indy...

If we're that special I'm sure we can figure out how to save our own planet.

[EEVblog]

So, let ourselves become extinct because of guilt?
You go first Indy...

If we're that special I'm sure we can figure out how to save our own planet.

That's the Neil Tyson argument against Mars colonisation. And of course we are going to (have to) do that as well, because even if we can terraform Mars, even after hundreds of years we still won't be close to the modern civilisation infrastructure we have here on earth. For countless generations to come, the long term survival of any Mars colony will be reliant upon Earth resupply.

(Elon interjects)
https://youtu.be/GFGJ9H0430M?t=183

[Mr. Scram]

That's the Neil Tyson argument against Mars colonisation. And of course we are going to (have to) do that as well, because even if we can terraform Mars, even after hundreds of years we still won't be close to the modern civilisation infrastructure we have here on earth. For countless generations to come, the long term survival of any Mars colony will be reliant upon Earth resupply.

(Elon interjects)
https://youtu.be/GFGJ9H0430M?t=183

I'm not too familiar with Tyson's positions and arguments but it's obvious that Earth is vastly more suitable for human life even if we thoroughly ruin it. If we can make Mars work we can bring Earth back from wherever we brought it. It's essentially the light version of terraforming.

[wraper]

So, let ourselves become extinct because of guilt?
You go first Indy...

If we're that special I'm sure we can figure out how to save our own planet.

I have no empathy towards microbes.

[Mr. Scram]

I have no empathy towards microbes.

A lack of empathy towards "lesser" life forms is a significant part of why we're in the mess we're in. Of course we'd also set a dangerous precedent. If there does happen to be anything more intelligent out there or even on our own planet we'd be morally obliged to make way or even eliminate ourselves.

[wraper]

I have no empathy towards microbes.

A lack of empathy towards "lesser" life forms is a significant part of why we're in the mess we're in. Of course we'd also set a dangerous precedent. If there does happen to be anything more intelligent out there or even on our own planet we'd be morally obliged to make way or even eliminate ourselves.

OK, if you are not hypocrite then you should feel never-ending guilt because your immune system endlessly kills them. Or when you simply boil water.

[Mr. Scram]

OK, if you are not hypocrite then you should feel never-ending guilt because your immune system endlessly kills them. Or when you simply boil water.

Only if people who won't eat a black rhino but will eat a cow are hypocrites.

[Buriedcode]

Don't forget there isn't enough fissile material on the planet to make enough weapons to "destroy Earth", let alone enough for terraforming Mars.  Its another Elon troll click-bait thing - and people are buying it 

The idea is to melt and throw up a bunch of ice in the polar regions and when it spreads the extra stuff in the atmosphere does the rest using a really big thermonuclear bomb called the sun.
It's not about the energy in the actual weapon directly heating the planet.

I thought it was to release the locked up CO2 to thicken the atmosphere, then millennia later, allow the temperature to rise due to greenhouse effect.  Temperature isn't really the problem, the pressure is. its a fairly old idea that I imagine was dreamt up in the 50's, back when "nuclear" was the solution to everything.  It is still a massive effort, nukes were mentioned because it gets peoples attention, and people generally believe them to be more powerful than they are.  Also, on Earth the greenhouse effect isn't just about CO2, there are numerous feedbacks both positive and negative that we haven't fully worked out, so on Mars there may be unforeseen mechanisms that actually work against it. 

I'm sure someone can run the numbers, but to get Mars' atmosphere to even 20% of Earths pressure (currently at about 0.6%) requires A LOT of gas.  It ain't Total-Recall, and I'm surprised peopled people aren't taking this as a joke.  He's becoming like a "techno Trump" - throwing out bizarre ideas, and when a small group of people validate him, it makes him believe its not completely ridiculous, "hey, I'm just exploring ideas!".

[rsjsouza]

I have no empathy towards microbes.

You'd be dead without the microbes that live in your mouth, skin, intestines...     

[wraper]

I have no empathy towards microbes.

You'd be dead without the microbes that live in your mouth, skin, intestines...     

So what? There are way more microbes which try to kill you than those from which organism have some use. Do you have empathy towards dish and fork? They help to consume food.

[rsjsouza]

I have no empathy towards microbes.

You'd be dead without the microbes that live in your mouth, skin, intestines...     

So what? There are way more microbes which try to kill you than those from which organism have some use. Do you have empathy towards dish and fork? They help to consume food.

Strange way to renegade one's own existence.  Microbes are vital. Dishes and forks are not. 

[MosherIV]

Quote from: MosherIV on Today at 08:20:40 am

    If you are going to build stuff in space - why would you both doing it just to nuke another  planet that is no suitable for human habitation.
    Just build space stationS to live in.


The whole point is about terraforming a planet over the long term, which in theory is possible.

Yes, ok, you want to try and terrform a planet.

However, terforming Mars is pointless.
Even if you succeed in thickning the atmosphere and warming it up and get enough water on the surface.
The problem is that Mars no longer has a magnetic feild to protect the atmosphere.
The atmosphere is literally being blown away by the Sun's solar wind because there is no magnetic feild to deflect the solar wind!
If you do terraform Mars, it is only a matter of time before all the work is undone and the atmosphere is thined by the solar wind.

Did I mention that Mars only has 0.3G ?
Do you really want to create generations that are too weak to stand up in a 1G environment?

[Mr. Scram]

So what? There are way more microbes which try to kill you than those from which organism have some use. Do you have empathy towards dish and fork? They help to consume food.

That claim requires a source. Show us the numbers please. It's not a matter of helping, it's a matter of being dead tomorrow without them. About 2 kg of your body weight is microbes which you can not live without.

[rsjsouza]

So what? There are way more microbes which try to kill you than those from which organism have some use. Do you have empathy towards dish and fork? They help to consume food.

That claim requires a source. Show us the numbers please. It's not a matter of helping, it's a matter of being dead tomorrow without them. About 2 kg of your body weight is microbes which you can not live without.

Mr. Scram, I think he is a... a... a... MICROBIST! (There! It had to be said!  )