No more Altium license server access :'(

[free_electron]

I really don't know why they don't release, say, a $55 hobbyist version. A hobbyist isn't going to put up $5.5k (well, most aren't...), so they may as well have a slice of the pie. It could be limited to 2 or 4 layers with X pins/pads. Or perhaps even have all the features of the full version but businesses are not allowed to use it or it may not be used for commercial gain.

If you are a legal student and can show you student id card they will give you a full blown, 4 year license for 100$.

How's that for a deal. Restrictions: no commercial use, support is self-help. Otherwise no limits. So it's not crippleware.

[free_electron]

Hello,

Need advice here too ...

I'm now working with Eagle mainly, but learning Altium Designer when I can ... I asked the French distributor of Altium for a quotation, the license is 3995€ and the yearly maintenance is 1750€.

1750$ maintenance... Not 1750 euro. Your distri is bullshitting you. I just paid my maintenance. 1750$

And your buy includes 1 year maintenance. You can drop maintenance afterwards, but if you pick back up you pay the delta.

That's why I'd need a SolidEdge ST5 license too (which is 2800€ without maintenance, or 3300€ with the first year of maintenance).

save yourself a truckload of money and buy a Rhino3D licence. 999$ and it works perfect. I use this in combination with altium. I import step files from manu , manipulate them in rhino ( like shelling or color changes) send to altium. Take altium step and do the reverse. Rhino reads and writes any 3d cad format out there and allows you to do any kind of model work.

[Otatiaro]

Hello,

Seems the $/€ rate is pretty volatile depending on who is doing the conversion ... even 1750$ is 1400€, delta is the maintenance fee for TASKING

And the 3995€ does not cover the first year of maintenance, it is 5750€ to get the licence and the first year of maintenance.

I'll take a look at Rhino 3D.

If I can get a better deal through another distributor, why not ... if you know one.

Thomas.

[free_electron]

why deal with distri's ? Buy directly from altium !

I just looked at my last quote from Dec13 2012:

1750$ renewal fee for a 1-seat,Single Site, Standalone Version
New license : 5,495$ includes 1 year maintenance.

[tom66]

So, what, you have to pay to keep using software?

Do you get updates with that??

I do not understand, you do not pay subscription for premium software such as Photoshop, so why is their a subscription on Altium?

At work, I have to deal with Cadence OrCAD. That has quite a few quirks. Doesn't crash that much though, just lots of very weird bugs.

[free_electron]

No you don't have to pay if you don't want to. Software licence is perpetual but you don't get any updates. that's all.
The same as with any other software. if a new version of photoshop is released you can buy the upgrade for a reduced fee. the cost of going from PS-CS4 to PS-CS5 is half of going from PS-CS4 to PS-CS6 .. you pay the skipped upgrades.

That's what altium is giving you. Since they release updates very frequently it comes as a yearly subscription.
In the end it's the same thing. you pay a small incremental fee to always have the latest version. There are no minor or mayor versions. Every build includes new things as well as bugfixes. in photoshop new things are only introduced in major upgrades. Altium continuously introduces new things.

but as i said, you don't have to pay if you are not interested. if a year from now you want to roll-up to the latest version they ding you for the missed time, just like photoshop dings you for the missing intermediate versions.  actually adobe is now also moving to a system where you lease per month...

At least your altium licence is perpetual if you stop paying... adobe's is not. stop paying and kiss it goodbye.

[slateraptor]

Uhmmmmm... yeahhhhh... technically it's stealing.  Perhaps you should look up the definition.  ...The definition typically states something along the lines of "taking without the owner's permission."  From the discussion and your own words it seems you are no longer at or affiliated with the University other than being an alumnus.  Generally when you leave a University, you give up your right to use University resources; even most University IDs state on them that the ID is property of the University and must be returned to the University.

So the question is... since "there is nothing to be stolen.", if you contact the Administrator of the University's Altium License server and ask "Do I have permission to continue to use this license server?"  Would that Administrator reply in the affirmative?  If not, clearly you are stealing!

A main quality that separates TRUE engineers from the rest of the world is their integrity.  Does anyone know why it is important to have integrity as a REAL Scientist or Engineer?

Do you think golf would be a cool sport if players had no integrity?

Further, while it is pretty offensive to lie to everyone else, one should never lie to themselves!! Are you sure you are not stealing??

Sure  I live in a glass house, but at least I PAID for my Altium License.

Oh, get off your moral high horse and don't presume to question my integrity; your "TRUE" and "REAL" aphorisms are quite banal and makes me wonder if your idea of "cool" involves wearing a certain pinky ring.

First of all, you don't even have a clue as to what exactly I'm entitled to. Alumni are entitled to the same privileges and campus resources as regular students for 1 year after graduation, to include userID, e-mail, VPN access, services, etc. In other words, if I had access to it as an undergrad, then I legitimately have access to it now. Second, I neither signed nor agreed to policy stating that I must surrender all license privileges upon graduating. If my alma mater receives some sort of discount from Altium for their bulk purchase, then that contract is between the university and Altium, not between me and the university. Furthermore, there is no "FOR ACADEMIC USE ONLY" limitation attached to my installation. Third, I have de facto paid for access to this license server in the form of tuition and lab fees; the fact that you were ass raped for an independent license doesn't negate the fact that I've paid the required dues to my alma mater, which in turn paid the Altium piper pimp. So I stand firm in my original disposition. Do I feel like I'm playing the system a bit more than your average engineering student? Without a doubt. But quite frankly, you can bet your top dollar that I'm going to milk the crap out of these hind tits for all they're worth.

And no, my student ID is my property (or co-owned by my bank had I opted to activate it as a debit card), governed by (read NOT owned by or property of) university rules and regulations, and nowhere in their bylaws does it state that the ID is property of the university, which should be obvious after mentioning that these IDs can be linked directly to a private bank account.

[slateraptor]

why deal with distri's ? Buy directly from altium !

Odd. I called Altium NA direct and they referred me to a regional reseller whose website hadn't been updated in years, who in turn didn't return my call and pawned me off to someone else who left a message 22 hours after the fact.

Curiously, I stumbled upon this article from April 2009

http://www.pcbdesign007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=49534

In summary, the price of AD has increased by ~38% since 2009. And for what?

[perfect_disturbance]

I never told you what to do I just found the distinction you drew peculiar as both behaviours seem the same to me.

I also think its strange that you feel your use of you universities licence server is legitimate but when it went down you didn't feel entitled enough to call and ask to have it restored.

[mstevens]

Uhmmmmm... yeahhhhh... technically it's stealing.  Perhaps you should look up the definition.  ...The definition typically states something along the lines of "taking without the owner's permission."  From the discussion and your own words it seems you are no longer at or affiliated with the University other than being an alumnus.  Generally when you leave a University, you give up your right to use University resources; even most University IDs state on them that the ID is property of the University and must be returned to the University.

So the question is... since "there is nothing to be stolen.", if you contact the Administrator of the University's Altium License server and ask "Do I have permission to continue to use this license server?"  Would that Administrator reply in the affirmative?  If not, clearly you are stealing!

A main quality that separates TRUE engineers from the rest of the world is their integrity.  Does anyone know why it is important to have integrity as a REAL Scientist or Engineer?

Do you think golf would be a cool sport if players had no integrity?

Further, while it is pretty offensive to lie to everyone else, one should never lie to themselves!! Are you sure you are not stealing??

Sure  I live in a glass house, but at least I PAID for my Altium License.

Oh, get off your moral high horse and don't presume to question my integrity; your "TRUE" and "REAL" aphorisms are quite banal and makes me wonder if your idea of "cool" involves wearing a certain pinky ring.

Let's see... hmm my credentials.  I have and BSEE from one of the top 5 EE curriculums in the US and working on a MSEE from the same.  Further, I am employed at that same University.  My job... well I do systems administration including having ran various license servers for lots of different products. I am also hold several MS certifications including being an MCT.  So I am pretty familiar with various legalities involving University policies as well as software licensing.

If you were not stealing and did not believe you were, you would not have posted your initial post.  You would have contacted the admin of the license server and asked them to resolve your problem. One can do what one wants.  I just get EXTREMELY perturbed when someone is wrong, know they are wrong, and then have the audacity to try to justify it.  If you are wrong just sit silently...I am cool with that but don't proceed to try to convince others that you are right!!

If your assertions are correct as to your having access to the software then email the admin of the Altium server and ask them if you should still have access and could they tell you what the problem was.  Then post their response and I will STFU. Otherwise shoot your line of BS somewhere else cause I'm not buying it. 

Now I'll wait for the standard "I don't have anything to prove to you!" response to which those who are not so truthful always resort.

Tell you what how about disclosing your alma mater.  So that we all can see what the University policy is for your ID; it should be public knowledge that is contained on their website. ....again with the "I don't have anything to prove."

BTW I own an Altium license because I can afford it.  I did not have to borrow the money for it and I have own my license well over 10 years now.  If you can't afford it there are other packages you can use.  I question your judgment, when you would go out an borrow money for the package; particularly since you are a recent graduate.  I just went back an read your through your posts, what you are doing is probably not legal, but it DEFINITALY IS NOT ETHICAL.  You are using an .edu license for a private for profit company.  ... and you don't even have shame enough to deny it!!!! WOW... There truly are all kinds of people in the world.

[poorchava]

Well, in industrial setting, $5.5k per seat is a low to medium cost tool. Mentor package is something in the order of $18k.

And the most extreme is CR-5000 from Zuken. It's recognized by many companies as the best software, with Cadence and Mantor being a level below that... Including price - 50k Euro per seat. And there is NO demo or trial. They probably figured that is you don't know what it does, and cannot arrange pricate demonstration by a representative, then you for sure don't need it

[ftransform]

why dont you just download it lol?
u gotta be high if u pay 5 grand for that

[ftransform]

Well, in industrial setting, $5.5k per seat is a low to medium cost tool. Mentor package is something in the order of $18k.

And the most extreme is CR-5000 from Zuken. It's recognized by many companies as the best software, with Cadence and Mantor being a level below that... Including price - 50k Euro per seat. And there is NO demo or trial. They probably figured that is you don't know what it does, and cannot arrange pricate demonstration by a representative, then you for sure don't need it

lets offer a 60,000$ cad package and not offer ANY demonstrations. You gotta buy it to try it.

[Conrad Hoffman]

FWIW, there isn't much of anything in the way of PCB design that I can't do with the free TinyCAD and FreePCB programs from Sourceforge. Initial learning is painful, but it is for any PCB software. No stupid proprietary files and no significant pin or layer limits. It will work with an on-line router if you need that. Sure it's not a full blown commercial package, but it works and doesn't cost $15k.

[JoannaK]

FWIW, there isn't much of anything in the way of PCB design that I can't do with the free TinyCAD and FreePCB programs from Sourceforge. Initial learning is painful, but it is for any PCB software. No stupid proprietary files and no significant pin or layer limits. It will work with an on-line router if you need that. Sure it's not a full blown commercial package, but it works and doesn't cost $15k.

IF (and only if) the layout is so simple that you don't need any High speed signaling (like PCI-E or Fast ethernet etc) nor any super high dencity stuff (=stick on hand solderable parts) while keeping plenty room for cheap_*** autorouter, then any imaginable  cad package will do. Heck, most of those today's OpenHW boards could be made with Tape-transfers (pre-computer days) or deco-dalo pens.

But, try to make matched impedance microstrips and huge FPGA:s fanouts with some Eagle, and you'll realize why companies buy those tools. The price of layout/routing person's time, the ability to keep all HS-rules at check real time, testing for manufacturing. Mistakes will become so expensive (test, debug, respin, + all delays), that good program justifies the investment made.


 

[free_electron]

FWIW, there isn't much of anything in the way of PCB design that I can't do

Some people make boards with 3 resistors in through hole, some people make boards with 5000 parts of which half are BGA and have 500+ pins.
The right tool for the right job ...

@achmed99 : In the professional CAd world this has been going on for years.
High-end CAD software cannot be bought, only leased.
You need to pay your licence every year. no pay = no license. And some of that stuff is mindbogglingly expensive. IC schematic and layout tools cost millions of dollars per licence. And cough it up every year...

This is normal in this kind of software.

Besides we are evolving to a ' Software as a service' model. Microsoft ha this for Office , Adobe already has it for all their products. You are always up -to-date and you pay only for what oyu use. Fair deal.

[EEVblog]

No you don't have to pay if you don't want to. Software licence is perpetual but you don't get any updates. that's all.
The same as with any other software.

No, with much software it works that you get free patches and bug fixes for a certain period, and/or for .x version upgrades or something like that.
All of my video editing software works like this for example.
Altium completely ditched that model. If you buy the perpetual license, you don't get a single update or bug fix after purchase, so you are stuck with whatever version you happen to buy at the time. And Altium is famous for having some versions having such serious bugs, it's almost completely unusable 

Dave.

[JuKu]

Of course, you can buy a perpetual license and subscription to keep it up-to-date. I've been on that model for years, but I think I'll let the subscription fall this summer.

[ptricks]

I hate the software licensing model, Autodesk is another company famous for licensing and subscriptions. There was hope a few years ago when a user took Autodesk to court and the court ruled that you have to either advertise the product as a lease or a sale, that you couldn't sell someone something then still claim ownership. The ruling would have made it so that companies had to clearly state what they were doing and not hide it in all the details where people assumed they were getting updates as well. It also would have made it so that you could sell your copy to another user, including older versions you no longer had a use for, it was a sale .   Autodesk brought in the lawyer heavy weights and got it over turned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc.

[Conrad Hoffman]

FWIW, there isn't much of anything in the way of PCB design that I can't do with the free TinyCAD and FreePCB programs from Sourceforge. Initial learning is painful, but it is for any PCB software. No stupid proprietary files and no significant pin or layer limits. It will work with an on-line router if you need that. Sure it's not a full blown commercial package, but it works and doesn't cost $15k.

IF (and only if) the layout is so simple that you don't need any High speed signaling (like PCI-E or Fast ethernet etc) nor any super high dencity stuff (=stick on hand solderable parts) while keeping plenty room for cheap_*** autorouter, then any imaginable  cad package will do. Heck, most of those today's OpenHW boards could be made with Tape-transfers (pre-computer days) or deco-dalo pens.

But, try to make matched impedance microstrips and huge FPGA:s fanouts with some Eagle, and you'll realize why companies buy those tools. The price of layout/routing person's time, the ability to keep all HS-rules at check real time, testing for manufacturing. Mistakes will become so expensive (test, debug, respin, + all delays), that good program justifies the investment made.

Absolutely true. And if one needs that stuff one had better be in a position to make the investment, or the business will fail for many reasons because it's undercapitalized.

[JoannaK]

FWIW, there isn't much of anything in the way of PCB design that I can't do with the free TinyCAD and FreePCB programs from Sourceforge. Initial learning is painful, but it is for any PCB software. No stupid proprietary files and no significant pin or layer limits. It will work with an on-line router if you need that. Sure it's not a full blown commercial package, but it works and doesn't cost $15k.

IF (and only if) the layout is so simple that you don't need any High speed signaling (like PCI-E or Fast ethernet etc) nor any super high dencity stuff (=stick on hand solderable parts) while keeping plenty room for cheap_*** autorouter, then any imaginable  cad package will do. Heck, most of those today's OpenHW boards could be made with Tape-transfers (pre-computer days) or deco-dalo pens.

But, try to make matched impedance microstrips and huge FPGA:s fanouts with some Eagle, and you'll realize why companies buy those tools. The price of layout/routing person's time, the ability to keep all HS-rules at check real time, testing for manufacturing. Mistakes will become so expensive (test, debug, respin, + all delays), that good program justifies the investment made.

Absolutely true. And if one needs that stuff one had better be in a position to make the investment, or the business will fail for many reasons because it's undercapitalized.

I know.. 15K is such a big amount, it'll takes a lot projects to cover the cost (+ upgrades) with uncertain markets there are at them moment. I have over 5 years of PADS exp (they were independent, before Mentor) but never owned license of my own. Now, the idea using eagle or Kikad hurts, testing those feels like jumping back a Decade at least.

I kinda wish I could remember that PCBcad I used with Amiga.. It was good/fast SW and IIRC it was made by some Aussie?

[free_electron]

Now, the idea using eagle or Kikad hurts, testing those feels like jumping back a Decade at least.

That is the problem with all those programs out there. They are designed by software programmers that have zero understanding of, and zero experience doing, a real pcb layout. they implement features from the wrong perspective. And they are invariable just 'another' vector drawing program that has no understanding of how elements belong together.

Many of these programs are no better than pen and paper. If you were to make a footprint library in , let's say a free program like inkscape , you could do perfect layout work and be at the same level , if not more advanced than what geda, kicad and others give you ( apart form the netlist then, i'm talking the manipulations that can be done with the primitives ).

The power of the real cad programs comes from their ability to do realtime DRC , rule driven design and interactive push-n-shove . I don not want to sit there endleslly moving little segments of track and then doublechecking them. the bloody damn machine needs to do that. it is immeasurably faster than me doing all the math work. i feed it the rules and it does the tedious stuff.
and if that costs 1700$ a year , so be it. i got no problem with that.

[tinhead]

Besides we are evolving to a ' Software as a service' model. Microsoft ha this for Office , Adobe already has it for all their products. You are always up -to-date and you pay only for what oyu use. Fair deal.

With 5500$ total price/yr, 250 working days/yr each 8hrs/day Altium costs only 2.75$ per hour.
Let's imagine Altium would have such service for private people, e.g. without technical support
and no commercial use - with a 1$ per hour of use.