Never-ending issues with NBN (Any former/current Telstra techs out there?)

[Halcyon]

I'm normally a very calm and patient person, but my patience is running out and I'm appealing to those who might have had similar experiences with Australia's new "fangdangle" National Broadband Network (NBN).

For those not in Australia and are interested, the NBN is essentially a VDSL2 network which the Australian Federal Government is rolling out to replace the aging analog, ISDN and ADSL networks around the country. But as you can guess, the people who sign off on the money to build this network are morons and refuse to listen to voice of reason and experience. So in many areas, rather than running fibre optic cabling to the home (FTTH) to replace the decaying copper lines, they're going with a 'fibre to the node' (FTTN) solution (or a hybrid fibre/coax if you live in an area with cable).

Now onto my gripes...

I'll spare the nitty gritty details and generalise a little: I built a new house on a vacant block. The block had no services running to it (naturally) but the NBN was here! Hooray! NBN Co. kindly came out and ran a brand new copper lead-in from the street to my house at no cost to me (previously, to get a new line installed by Telstra would have cost me about $300). No dramas there.

Since the service was connected, I've had nothing but problems...

1. The length of the copper line between my house and the NBN node is about 800 metres; I can't get line sync at more than 6Mbps (I should be getting 25+Mbps).
2. I've had two "open circuit" line faults which required an NBN contractor to come out and join the wires together again somewhere up the street.
3. Line sync drops out continuously, usually several times a day.

And it's not just me, both neighbours on either side of me have similar issues.

I've been onto my service provider (Telstra) and logged fault after fault after fault after fault... each time they just flick it to NBN Co. who sends a contractor out. All the contractors do is test for line voltage and continuity. Nothing more. Of course there is bloody continuity! I've even had contractors tell me themselves that the lines out there in the street are so brittle that it literally falls apart in their hands when they attempt to re-jumper it.

I've explained the situation to my service providers 1st level support, who have spoken to their team leaders and made endless notes on the system.
I've lodged a complaint with Telstra -- That complaint/fault still sits in their system to this day as "open", they acknowledge there is a line fault but nothing is being done.
I've been through 3 modems.
I've lodged a complaint with the Telecommunications Industry Ombudman; Nothing.
I've spoken to the NBN contractors and asked them to push the issue up from their end... nope, they "can't".
I've e-mailed the office of the Minister for Communications... no reply yet (not expecting one).
Above all, I'm not a moron and worked in a data centre years ago. I know a thing or two about cabling and I even had to fix NBN Co's last attempt at wiring a socket!

The problem is out there, in the street. It's the shitty bloody copper lines than can barely hang on to a connection (if I do manage to get sync on the line).

Telstra says it's NBN Co's responsbility. NBN Co. contractors just shrug and look at me like an idiot. The last call to Telstra even recommended that I call ISGM directly (the company contracted to do Telstra's cabling work) but get this: I might need to pay for the repairs myself if I do that. 

Who on this earth do I need to speak to for them to make a decision to replace the old, corroded copper cabling?

Honestly, can anyone suggest something else because I've run out of options. I've been polite, I've been patient, I've laughed it off with the Telstra customer service person on the phone about how shit the NBN is... enough is enough. I'd be happy with a crummy 3Mbps connection if it meant the damn thing worked and was stable!

 

[capt bullshot]

Get a backhoe and dig some holes, cutting the cable ;-) At some point you made enough cuts so they'll replace the hole cable. Or get some lightning strike into the cable ... Watch out not to be caught. SCNR

[Halcyon]

Or get some lighning strike into the cable ... Watch out not to be caught.

That already happened. It took out the modem and everything connected directly to the Ethernet ports (1 NIC in my desktop died but everything else still works).

I now run fibre optic as an "air gap" between my modem and the rest of my network due to that.

[CJay]

Sounds like the UK's setup, we have 'fibre to the cabinet' and then a shorthaul of copper from the cabinet to the home (mine is still a couple of hundred metres I think).

I have been informally told that it's a stepping stone to full FTTH (which is being rolled out to some areas already but will take a few years to get outside major cities) and is a way of paying for the network in steps, take subscriptions for a couple of years to pay off the FTTC and then offer FTTH.

However, that doesn't help your immediate problem, so:

One way I have used in the past when all else had failed was to have a second telephone line installed into a premises and then cease the original, problematic line.

I don't know what costs that'll incur for you or if it's even possible but if there are no pairs in the underground cabling then they'll have to run new.

If there are spares and they refuse to switch you to them on your existing 'line' they will have to use them to provide the new line.

[Vtile]

Same shit going on here at Finland also, copper/fibre costs too much for ISPs. If you aren't in area with appartments stacked minimum 10 above each other you can forget the dreams of decent 21st century HW line.

They like to sell 4G wireless (wireless costs next to nothing here, thx to GSM and Nokia days), it costs them nothing to wire that line up to customers.

[Halcyon]

One way I have used in the past when all else had failed was to have a second telephone line installed into a premises and then cease the original, problematic line.

I did think about that however they'll just "steal" one of the unused pairs (in just as bad condition) from one of my neighbours. I found out this is what they did when they originally installed the lead-in. Traditionally, each home has a 2-pair cable running into it. All they did was connect me to next door's unused pair at the first junction.

They like to sell 4G wireless (wireless costs next to nothing here, thx to GSM and Nokia days).

Lucky you! Wireless here is expensive. Where I am, I have marginal 4G coverage (normally 1 to 2 out of 5 "bars") however I can still pull a sustained 10-14Mbps. Unfortunately that costs me $10 per gigabyte if I exceed my monthly data allowance.

[CJay]

One way I have used in the past when all else had failed was to have a second telephone line installed into a premises and then cease the original, problematic line.

I did think about that however they'll just "steal" one of the unused pairs (in just as bad condition) from one of my neighbours. I found out this is what they did when they originally installed the lead-in. Traditionally, each home has a 2-pair cable running into it. All they did was connect me to next door's unused pair at the first junction.

Ah, that's a pain. Is there no audible noise on the POTS line you could complain about?

[Brumby]

Not sure how effective it would be - but my thoughts have entertained this idea.....

Get together all the details you can and prepare the outline for a story that some of those current affair type of shows.  Make sure to include all details about who is involved, their reactions, etc.  Explain the technical details in terms that are technically accurate, but straightforward enough for the average consumer to understand.  Point out the relevant political interests and try and present it all so they can smell ratings.

Not sure if you want to expose yourself to the possibility of appearing on TV, though.

[Ian.M]

I've seen, in a supposedly 1st world country, 100 pair telephone cable laid down the street gutter for a couple of blocks, with Tarmac humps over it at each driveway, (they did cut it into the surface of side roads) patched into a Telco cabinet at one end and a manhole at the other, as a 'temporary' replacement for a lead sheathed oil & paper insulated buried cable that was in such poor condition that fewer than one in ten households had phone service after heavy rain. 

It stayed that way for over a year.  This was after several years of the few good pairs being given to whoever complained the loudest and most recently, and of enough split pairs being used for everyone to be familiar with hearing other peoples calls in the background! The (then) national Telco weren't exactly known for their technical competence . . .

[Doc Daneeka]

I lost my phone connection (ADSL really since I never used the land line for actual telephone) for months at a time - faults ranging from flakey connection, zero connection, phone would randomly ring (and this would knock out ADSL when it happened) when you lifted the phone to an idle line you would hear a distorted dial tone and other peoples phone calls (!). Clearly some serious cable problems somehwere. Each time I complained to Telstra they would tell me a tech was on it and would be fixed in two weeks. Two weeks later they said it would be another two weeks. then another. then another. then the problem went away. two weeks later they told me it was fixed. This same problem occured for many months, at least 3 times (I cant even remember), each time telstra would assure me it was impossible it must be something wrong with my equipment, then a week later acknowlege there was a fault then a week later that it was a major fault that would take 2 weeks to fix... and so on.

I lived in a neighbourhood mostly built up in the 50s so we still had old flakey lines, and I left the country before NBN was done (wouldnt have mattered anyway since my side of the street wasn't going to be upgraded for 5, 10, 20 or 100 years or something anyway.)

[Halcyon]

One way I have used in the past when all else had failed was to have a second telephone line installed into a premises and then cease the original, problematic line.

I did think about that however they'll just "steal" one of the unused pairs (in just as bad condition) from one of my neighbours. I found out this is what they did when they originally installed the lead-in. Traditionally, each home has a 2-pair cable running into it. All they did was connect me to next door's unused pair at the first junction.

Ah, that's a pain. Is there no audible noise on the POTS line you could complain about?

There is no such thing anymore with NBN. All POTS/analog services are gone. If you insist on having an old analog handset you need to connect it to a VOIP adapter, some modem/routers being supplied by ISPs have a port specifically for traditional analog phones.

There is a lot of old analog gear still out there... lift emergency phones, fire alarms, intruder alarms etc... They all need to be upgraded to digital modems (if possible) and if not either replaced entirely or some kind of analog-to-digital bandaid solution put in place.

[CJay]

One way I have used in the past when all else had failed was to have a second telephone line installed into a premises and then cease the original, problematic line.

I did think about that however they'll just "steal" one of the unused pairs (in just as bad condition) from one of my neighbours. I found out this is what they did when they originally installed the lead-in. Traditionally, each home has a 2-pair cable running into it. All they did was connect me to next door's unused pair at the first junction.

Ah, that's a pain. Is there no audible noise on the POTS line you could complain about?

There is no such thing anymore with NBN. All POTS/analog services are gone. If you insist on having an old analog handset you need to connect it to a VOIP adapter, some modem/routers being supplied by ISPs have a port specifically for traditional analog phones.

There is a lot of old analog gear still out there... lift emergency phones, fire alarms, intruder alarms etc... They all need to be upgraded to digital modems (if possible) and if not either replaced entirely or some kind of analog-to-digital bandaid solution put in place.

Oh, we do at least have POTS to the home still so none of our stuff has had to be plugged into VOIP adapters or thrown out and we can of course listen for line noise.

How do you call the emergency services if there's a power outage or is it all battery backed?

[Halcyon]

How do you call the emergency services if there's a power outage or is it all battery backed?

The NBN boxes are battery backed (or mobile phones).

[gnif]

How do you call the emergency services if there's a power outage or is it all battery backed?

The NBN boxes are battery backed (or mobile phones).

Depends on the provider, I switched to NBN VDSL a month ago now, been very happy with it syncing at just a tad over 100Mbit. The modem provided (Broadcom thing) was quite decent, but high power usage and no backup battery etc. I swapped it out for a DrayTek Vigor 130 as it uses the Lantiq chipset (I dont much like Broadcom), fully supports VDSL2+ profile 17a with Vectoring (after a firmware update) and lets me bridge it.

Best part about it though is the following output it gives.


I am about 300M from the node on the street and on the original copper pair, what I have also done is disconnected the house phones from the street and brought a single dedicated line through to my office for the modem. I already had a central splitter so I just did it at this point.

For phones since I did not use the supplied modem I already have an asterisk box with a dahdi card, I just threw a FXS module into it and plugged it into the wall socket, now my asterisk server provides POTS services for my house.

[Halcyon]

How do you call the emergency services if there's a power outage or is it all battery backed?

The NBN boxes are battery backed (or mobile phones).

Depends on the provider, I switched to NBN VDSL a month ago now, been very happy with it syncing at just a tad over 100Mbit. The modem provided (Broadcom thing) was quite decent, but high power usage and no backup battery etc. I swapped it out for a DrayTek Vigor 130 as it uses the Lantiq chipset (I dont much like Broadcom), fully supports VDSL2+ profile 17a with Vectoring (after a firmware update) and lets me bridge it.

Best part about it though is the following output it gives.


I am about 300M from the node on the street and on the original copper pair, what I have also done is disconnected the house phones from the street and brought a single dedicated line through to my office for the modem. I already had a central splitter so I just did it at this point.

For phones since I did not use the supplied modem I already have an asterisk box with a dahdi card, I just threw a FXS module into it and plugged it into the wall socket, now my asterisk server provides POTS services for my house.

Which provider are you with? I was of the understanding that you couldn't connect at more than 25Mbps with FTTN (even though it's technically possible). If you have FTTH you can get services up to the 100Mbps speed tier.

[gnif]

FTTN is certainly capable of 100Mbit, but you need to be close enough to the node to get it. I believe that the speed starts to drop off at around 400M from the node.

I am with MyRepublic, cheap but surprisingly good considering they want you to agree to dropping your rights to quality of service. I have had to chase them on a few things such as getting a static IP address and my VOIP details so I can use my own PBX setup. Every call through has been great, Australian call center with actual Australian staff, and ready to accept it when you tell them you know what you're talking about. I have gone from first level support to talking with their engineers in a matter of a 10 minute call which is IMO amazing.

The only down side to this is their basic package doesn't advertise that you will be put on CGNAT (Carrier Grade Network Address Translation) which means, no real IP address (even a dynamic one), no port forwarding, and loss of state if you have long open connections that are mostly idle (ie, SSH sessions). If you get their Gamer Pro package they give you a real IP, but it still took the month to get the IP as they did not have enough IPs available for people yet.