Need an Amnesty on Electronics Forums

[Siwastaja]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors - people like jonpaul who never have anything to say, except to complain about Faringdon posting. Like a bot.

Or people like tggzzz ruining their otherwise very decent SNR by zero-replying to every Faringdon thread like a bot. What a weird fixation.

Meanwhile, while Faringdons SNR isn't great, it isn't colossally poor either, probably pretty average stuff. Sure it's all made up X-Y problems, but still maybe 50% of posts discuss some actual technical thing, which is often interesting and special enough that it triggers unnecessary people like jonpaul to try to think, only to realize "oh crap, I don't understand any of this". But there is something interesting in Faringdon's style: it triggers these unnecessary people to write lots of unnecessary replies, where the only thing they do is to reveal they did not understand the actual technical discussion at all. Then they pat each other heads, writing dozens of unnecessary replies.

What a weird fixation to have.

And these unnecessary people are the actual root cause of the SNR problem.

But now you have banned the one who acts as a trigger - a trigger to some childish old farts who have nothing to do except to complain, when they should just follow a simple principle: if you have nothing to say, do not post.

In reality, you didn't have to do anything. You could have left Faringdon allowed to post, and these old farts fixating on their fixation. The rest of us can choose to just add certain names to ignore list.

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

[MK14]

---Apparently nasty and inconsiderate post, removed by me---

It is NOT your own personal forum.  There are thousands of different users, around the world.

You seem to be very rude, and inconsiderate, in that post.

Ultimately, it is up to the moderation and administrator team, to decide (or Dave to make the final decision).

[tggzzz]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors - people like jonpaul who never have anything to say, except to complain about Faringdon posting. Like a bot.

Or people like tggzzz ruining their otherwise very decent SNR by zero-replying to every Faringdon thread like a bot. What a weird fixation.

Meanwhile, while Faringdons SNR isn't great, it isn't colossally poor either, probably pretty average stuff. Sure it's all made up X-Y problems, but still maybe 50% of posts discuss some actual technical thing, which is often interesting and special enough that it triggers unnecessary people like jonpaul to try to think, only to realize "oh crap, I don't understand any of this". But there is something interesting in Faringdon's style: it triggers these unnecessary people to write lots of unnecessary replies, where the only thing they do is to reveal they did not understand the actual technical discussion at all. Then they pat each other heads, writing dozens of unnecessary replies.

What a weird fixation to have.

And these unnecessary people are the actual root cause of the SNR problem.

But now you have banned the one who acts as a trigger - a trigger to some childish old farts who have nothing to do except to complain, when they should just follow a simple principle: if you have nothing to say, do not post.

In reality, you didn't have to do anything. You could have left Faringdon allowed to post, and these old farts fixating on their fixation. The rest of us can choose to just add certain names to ignore list.

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

What a strange post that was...

I'm surprised at that last paragraph. Did you really mean it?

I don't know what "zero replying" means, and a fast search failed to reveal it. And I certainly didn't reply to every faringdon thread; please don't start "fake news".

It seems you've missed the my reasons: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/need-an-amnesty-on-electronics-forums/msg5593585/#msg5593585
One person agreed sufficiently strongly to reply: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/need-an-amnesty-on-electronics-forums/msg5593725/#msg5593725

As for "actual root cause of the SNR problem", none of the people left here are the root cause.

[voltsandjolts]

Faringdon started 113 topics so far this year, until banned in early August. If he posted less he would likely find folks here to be much more tolerant, and be treated as a forum 'character'. But the shear relentlessness of (mostly) BS wears you down IMHO.

[bd139]

Hat tip to the moderators. At least one lurker approves.  Occasionally I saunter in here and check things out and think "oh bloody hell not another fucking Faringdon thread" and go and sit and rock in the corner with my hands over my head.

Siwastaja: if you don't like moderators, you can go and start your own forum, with blackjack and hookers. This actually happened, successfully.

[AVGresponding]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors - people like jonpaul who never have anything to say, except to complain about Faringdon posting. Like a bot.

Or people like tggzzz ruining their otherwise very decent SNR by zero-replying to every Faringdon thread like a bot. What a weird fixation.

Meanwhile, while Faringdons SNR isn't great, it isn't colossally poor either, probably pretty average stuff. Sure it's all made up X-Y problems, but still maybe 50% of posts discuss some actual technical thing, which is often interesting and special enough that it triggers unnecessary people like jonpaul to try to think, only to realize "oh crap, I don't understand any of this". But there is something interesting in Faringdon's style: it triggers these unnecessary people to write lots of unnecessary replies, where the only thing they do is to reveal they did not understand the actual technical discussion at all. Then they pat each other heads, writing dozens of unnecessary replies.

What a weird fixation to have.

And these unnecessary people are the actual root cause of the SNR problem.

But now you have banned the one who acts as a trigger - a trigger to some childish old farts who have nothing to do except to complain, when they should just follow a simple principle: if you have nothing to say, do not post.

In reality, you didn't have to do anything. You could have left Faringdon allowed to post, and these old farts fixating on their fixation. The rest of us can choose to just add certain names to ignore list.

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

What a strange post that was...

I'm surprised at that last paragraph. Did you really mean it?

I don't know what "zero replying" means, and a fast search failed to reveal it. And I certainly didn't reply to every faringdon thread; please don't start "fake news".

It seems you've missed the my reasons: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/need-an-amnesty-on-electronics-forums/msg5593585/#msg5593585
One person agreed sufficiently strongly to reply: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/need-an-amnesty-on-electronics-forums/msg5593725/#msg5593725

As for "actual root cause of the SNR problem", none of the people left here are the root cause.

I suspect it means something along the lines of deliberately replying in a way that completely ignores the subject of the OP.

[AVGresponding]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors - people like jonpaul who never have anything to say, except to complain about Faringdon posting. Like a bot.

Or people like tggzzz ruining their otherwise very decent SNR by zero-replying to every Faringdon thread like a bot. What a weird fixation.

Meanwhile, while Faringdons SNR isn't great, it isn't colossally poor either, probably pretty average stuff. Sure it's all made up X-Y problems, but still maybe 50% of posts discuss some actual technical thing, which is often interesting and special enough that it triggers unnecessary people like jonpaul to try to think, only to realize "oh crap, I don't understand any of this". But there is something interesting in Faringdon's style: it triggers these unnecessary people to write lots of unnecessary replies, where the only thing they do is to reveal they did not understand the actual technical discussion at all. Then they pat each other heads, writing dozens of unnecessary replies.

What a weird fixation to have.

And these unnecessary people are the actual root cause of the SNR problem.

But now you have banned the one who acts as a trigger - a trigger to some childish old farts who have nothing to do except to complain, when they should just follow a simple principle: if you have nothing to say, do not post.

In reality, you didn't have to do anything. You could have left Faringdon allowed to post, and these old farts fixating on their fixation. The rest of us can choose to just add certain names to ignore list.

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

Though the Mods/Admin can be overly heavy handed, I'm not sure it's bullying, though I suppose it's rather subjective.

The behaviour of other forum members towards Faringdon doesn't quite clear the bar as bullying, mostly, for me, though I strongly disagree with openly speculating on someone's mental health/learning disabilities/position on any spectrum, or any attempt at doxxing, however oblique.

I suspect he would mostly have been left alone if it weren't for the recurring themes in his posts/threads, China-bashing in particular.

[Ian.M]

Treez/Ocset/Faringdon has made *some* progress over the last few years, as he no longer morphs to a new nym at the drop of a hat and doesn't have any more sock-puppets.   If our admins can secure an agreement with him that he will stick to actual 'hands-on' electronics, on a one topic per project basis and he promises wont revert to any of the behaviours he has previously been formally warned about, I also would support his return after a brief time-out even though he's a bit of a time-sink.   OTOH if he wishes to continue to post his business and industry conspiracy theories in 'General Technical Chat' (and other less suitable places), or sh!t-stirs elsewhere then drags it over here, lets keep him perma-banned.

+1 for not tolerating unqualified speculation about *any* posters' psychology or mental health.  If you wish to speculate, show us your relevant medical qualifications!

[pcprogrammer]

Even now he is gone it is still good for a laugh. 

What a fuss about nothing. Sure it is somewhat important to keep information up to some standard and warn when some BS comes along, and why not have a laugh from time to time at the expense of someone who sticks his neck out. If you can't handle that and don't want public exposure, you should not participate on a forum and let alone start BS threads.

Take alone the diversity in the things posted by Faringdon over the years. Lures about the Russian-Ukraine war, China bashing, and what ever nonsense stories about mystery companies that mistreat their workers, etc, just to get what? Basically only good for ridicule.

And for sure there is always a simple solution: Just do not open the thread when you see the posters name Faringdon. (No longer needed now he has been banned)

I have not yet used the ignore list. I skim the titles and only select something interesting to me. For the rest I just press the "Mark all messages as read" button.

[Nominal Animal]

(I will mention that I sometimes end up overconfident, but I am always willing to review what I wrote and learn from others. If I’m wrong, explain it to me, and I will amend my knowledge/beliefs.)

(Me too, absolutely.  My own writing style makes me often sound more confident and authoritative than I intend to –– I believe it is hard to tell when I'm confident and when I'm not –– so to combat that, I've ended up mentioning "on the electronics side, I'm only a hobbyist" in various forms in 100+ posts...)

For any new members or lurkers reading this thread, engaging in the discussion after posting a question –– particularly mentioning what solution they eventually chose, and why –– is very important.  It is okay to ask questions (I do so myself); just don't do it like a drive-by shooting.  It's perfectly okay and good to have different opinions; we just need to concentrate and discuss the reasons and experience behind those opinions instead of the opinions themselves.

In case it wasn't already clear, I consider Faringdon a (former) member, a peer, who just like I myself should work on their communication style (because without that work, it is causes too much friction to be sustainable in the long term); and I felt it was –– especially considering the title of this thread! –– important to 'bring out' the reasons for the ban, so everyone understands why.  Dave and the moderators have promised to let me (and us members in general) know if we're getting too close to the line –– a warning via a private message ––, so nothing here was instant/unexpected/out-of-the-blue, either.  The number of posts and threads involved also shows that there is plenty of time to adjust, too.

[EEVblog]

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

You do not know any of the back story that the moderators do, so I'd advise you to keep quiet on this topic.
Similar story to many of the high profile people banned over the years, there is almost always way more to the story than we can tell. Some of it is actually VERY nasty stuff (not in this case), and a lot of you would be stunned at what some banned members who you thought were unfairly banned etc have done that wasn't public.

Anyway, in this case Faringdon just personally and privately politely thanked me for continuing to let him be on the forum for all these years even after previous bans. And he said the ban is fine and he understands.
But given his previous history it wouldn't surprise me if he tried to come back again under a new account.

[EEVblog]

I suspect he would mostly have been left alone if it weren't for the recurring themes in his posts/threads, China-bashing in particular.[/color][/font][/b]

Something that he actually promised not to do any more after the last ban. But of course he did ultimately continued.
He has even admitted that was the main reason he's on the forum, for the politics of Chinese made products.

[EEVblog]

If our admins can secure an agreement with him that he will stick to actual 'hands-on' electronics, on a one topic per project basis and he promises wont revert to any of the behaviours he has previously been formally warned about, I also would support his return after a brief time-out even though he's a bit of a time-sink.

We have tried that, accepted the promises, and he broke them.

[Halcyon]

Now it's totally obvious that moderators officially joined the bullying team, joining the core of the problem, and I don't like that. Not at all. Actually, to be direct: fuck you.

If I may be direct, but you're wrong. I appreciate your opinion and I even respected you for it (at least to begin with), until someone else's decision didn't gel with yours, then you lost all respect.

I know this forum is full of old, cranky men. So what? At least they impart some wisdom, even if you don't like the delivery.

Faringdon/Treez was generally a problem, not always, but frequently enough. You forget that this entire forum is moderated by 3 individuals (4 if you include Dave). We all have our day jobs but we are all pretty relaxed with the way we moderate.

If you think you can do a better job than me, put it to a vote, and if the majority thinks I'm doing a crap job, then I'll step back to a regular user. I promise not to take it personally either. If I've fucked up, I'm the first to admit it. The way I tend to moderate is almost anything goes. But if you take the piss one too many times and a limit is reached, I'll crack the whip.

I fully expect the reverse in return: If you think I'm being unfair, TELL ME. Anyone can PM me with their thoughts and opinions.

[tggzzz]

I'd like to publicly thank the mods for the time and effort they put into moderation, and the style in which they do it.

I say that as someone who has been accused of many things over the decades, but never of having a "brown nose" nor "depth perception problems"

Hence I echo the apposite comment...

Hat tip to the moderators.

[Postal2]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors ....

Any forum is full of zero contributors. Usually there are many more.

[Gyro]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors ....

Any forum is full of zero contributors. Usually there are many more.

Sure, there are probably thousands of zero posters who have found the forum, thought it was a good idea to sign up (or thought they needed to) but have never posted anything. They are no problem and zero moderation load - well I think Dave does a sweep very occasionally just to keep the numbers sensible - they can always sign up again if they want to say something).

On a personal note, I would be mortified if I got to the stage where I needed off-line / behind the scenes moderation. The mods have better things to do and I would probably leave of my own accord, tail between my legs.

[Bud]

This forum is full of actual zero contributors - people like jonpaul who never have anything to say, except to complain about Faringdon posting. Like a bot.
.....

And these unnecessary people are the actual root cause of the SNR problem.

Well said.

[Postal2]

.... but have never posted anything. .....

No. It means they posted something empty about "how I spent my day". You mentioned moderators - would you like it if Faringdon became a moderator? It's a subtle question.

[joeqsmith]

...
You do not know any of the back story that the moderators do, so I'd advise you to keep quiet on this topic.
Similar story to many of the high profile people banned over the years, there is almost always way more to the story than we can tell. Some of it is actually VERY nasty stuff (not in this case), and a lot of you would be stunned at what some banned members who you thought were unfairly banned etc have done that wasn't public.
...

How about making a video on your second channel telling some of the better stories of what happened behind the scenes.  No names or other personal info, just the stunning details. 

[armandine2]

for a change

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0021jk0

[Postal2]

.... just the stunning details.

Personally, I'm not interested in reading, watching, or listening to any crap. I don't even like movies where there's destruction in the background. I don't want to teach myself that this is normal.

[Siwastaja]

It is NOT your own personal forum.

Quite obviously, just like it's not YOUR personal forum, or jonpaul's, or Faringdon's.

You seem to be very rude, and inconsiderate, in that post.

Good - that was my intention. I sometimes - quite rarely - reply to longstanding rudeness with rudeness. For example, naming out jonpaul is well deserved if you actually look at what kind of dedication, nearly stalker-level has been applied against Faringdon's threads by said forum member. I have reported some of those bullying posts to moderators in the past, and some of them have been removed or edited as a result.

Ultimately, it is up to the moderation and administrator team, to decide (or Dave to make the final decision).

This is obvious, as it's Dave's forum and he will ultimately do whatever he wants.

Siwastaja: if you don't like moderators, you can go and start your own forum

Or I can state my opinion, in this particular case, like I did, and I don't have to start my own forum just because I disagree with one random action made by one moderator, as he admitted, because he had a bad day. Life goes on. Unless they are dick enough to ban me, too, in which case I'll then leave. But I don't think this would happen. I have good reasons to stay and post here, but it does not mean I have to apply self-censorship or praise every moderator action, or explain self-evident stuff like you do.

Others are praising the moderator actions like some sort of choir, so I'll just express my disagreeing in this particular case. I still agree with >95% of moderator actions, and would probably agree even with this one if given correct reasons and backstory for the ban, instead of this "I was irritated so banned him" story.

And I'm not here to throw some kind of "I'm leaving boohoo" temper tantrum, just stating my opinion like you are stating yours.

[Siwastaja]

Something that he actually promised not to do any more after the last ban. But of course he did ultimately continued.
He has even admitted that was the main reason he's on the forum, for the politics of Chinese made products.

.... aaaand at the same time, the forum is full of members who just post random political Youtube videos or whatever. Faringdon's China fixation might have went a bit overboard, but at least it was always in scope of electronics design and manufacturing, instead of purely commenting political systems, covid of whatever totally electronics unrelated stuff.

And I bet it would have been easier for Faringdon too if other members tried to keep Faringdon's electronic related topics on-topic (or not reply at all if there is nothing to say). But nearly every thread was filled with very actual bullying along the lines of "oh crap, Faringdon is posting again", or "ignore Faringdon". That sort of behavior is classic textbook example of bullying, and  should not be tolerated, and I'm sure it stresses out the one who is targeted, making it more difficult to keep following the rules - after all, if others are not following them, why would he?

[Ian.M]

OTOH the moderators need to remain somewhat inscrutable, otherwise ****ing trolling lamer rules lawyers with no interest in electronics will visit us and use any insight the moderators offer us to game the system and see how close to the edge of the rules they can get without a ban, or compete to see how few posts it takes to derail an ordinary on-topic thread and get it locked, or compete aggravating and inciting some of our thinner-skinned members to see how many replies it takes to get the thin-skinned member banned!