My workbench: the perfect is the enemy of the good enough

[basinstreetdesign]

AFAIK I believe he's in Canada somewhere ? 

I am assuming the gent has taken into account the breaking force of that shelving and gradual stress flex over time,
and not just the immediate hold weight

I believe he is somewhere in Mississauga, Ontario.
He comes across as VERY methodical.  I don't doubt that he has designed the shelves and electrical system very well.  The shelves that hold the 545/547 scopes, at least, are hung from the floor joists above.

[Electro Detective]

Suggest to go with power strip boards,
the 4 ways are cheaper to buy than a single plug or socket or a 2 meter length cable,

and usually on sale or cheaper by the dozen, they meet electrical approvals (DIY check read FIRST!) and LEGAL.

'LEGAL' may mean nothing to many now, but the insurance company may not pay if something happens on the property, even if not power related, after seeing suss DIY cabling 


Daisy chained 4 and 6 way power strips work great, each has a thermal cutout/reset,
and you can buy a multi switched power board as the Master,
for 4 or 6 strips that may be difficult to access (or tossed in the back)


In Australia a basic starter set up of four (x4) 4 way boards plus a single 4 way switched board is good for 12 to 16 devices (depending on the daisy chain or not layout),
and will cost just under $30 in total for quality brand name units.

Do the math guys, that's $2 per socket. You can't even buy "a single plug or socket or a 2 meter length cable" for that, much less a short extension cord.


I check new addition power board sockets for a good tight fit (no suss ~loosey~ "WTF" badged socket rattlers please) and check with a polarity/power point tester,
before I plug in gear,
and then toss the newly loaded board at the back to join the others... 


I stay away from wanky 'surge protected' boards and or USB fitted rubbish.
Just straight plain power boards with an overload reset switch near the cord entry point (not squished into the male plug = another latest DDA 'dumbass design award' candidate  )

For those that need true constant surge protection and or USB, buy separate add ons/devices that actually WORK. 

---------------------

FWIW: an upgrade to the four (x4) 4 way boards is to additionally buy an RCD/MCB cube (usually in an orange color) with 4 switched sockets as the MASTER Master, and for future adds.

This way you've got local RCD (GFCI) and MCB protection, and thermal cutout in each of the four power boards = win win win 

[coppercone2]

I  think that mr. carlson has a assembly line approach to his measurements and equipment calibration.

For instance you can setup the scopes to different settings (being analog scopes that will hold their position after power off) to see expected signals. I.e. you can get a calibration/verification procedure for a piece of equipment, go to various test pages, and set up equipment clusters to quickly deal with certain pages. You can setup your equipment ahead of time, take a break, get it out of the way.

I question his setup for design work or categorization (I don't think you will get full thermal stability or be easily able to read certain figures or adjust detailed measurements easily in that cramped configuration), but it looks like a very decent setup for tech or repair work (i.e. glance at a SA far away to see if the thing you expect is there and to be able to quickly decide that the equipment is in working function and set it back.

Evaluating a system to the xth digit of precision is different then monitoring to make sure if an appliance (yes he does transmitters as his end goal, not design of test equipment) is not doing funny shit. You can probobly hook something up to a bunch of gear and sit across the room watching it from the corner of your eye while watching TV and you might notice some kind of aberrant behavior if its been in your field of vision for 1 hour.

He works with RF for a living it seems, so he probably knows how to setup a whole bunch of equipment to various settings that will be probably useful so he can just grab the closest thing to his thought and have to do less adjustments.

Personally I don't like the setup for thermal/distraction reasons. The equipment cannot like that cramped setup.

But the general assault of peoples tool count is kinda annoying. What's wrong with a planer wall? If you have it memorized you might be able to shave a few minutes off a job in the long run. Add up 5 minutes a day for a year and your talking worthwhile. Almost a whole day spent planing. And you can rotate them to maintain sharpness if you get some kind of bastard wood so you can increase up time then later possibly even export or assemblyline sharpening. Not to mention they will have slightly different ergonomics so if you are using them alot frequent location will change the distribution of forces on your body and possibly help with joint pain and muscle soreness. And the different tactile sensations from use may increase enjoyment of the activity and engage you psychologically.

another 

[Berni]

These old analog scopes are also made from plugin modules. Having multiple scopes means you can keep them with different configurations of plugin modules to suit different tasks rather than plugging these massive modules in and out, potentially causing wear and tear on them (Especially since they are tube based and need to be swapped when power is off)

Tho for Mr. Carlson he does have quite a bit of a hobby in collecting and repairing vintage test equipment, its not just test equipment, pretty much any piece of vintage electronics will catch his interest.

Besides when your scope breaks you need another scope to troubleshoot it. This actually happened to me last month.

[GlennSprigg]

'soldar'...  It's not complicated mate. Wall-plugs, screws, simple shelves. Larger board on top
of desk... trust yourself !!  Keep it simple !... don't think too much about it. Just do it !   

There's a Youtube suggestion/question to pop at Mr. Carlson's Lab
ask how he set up those shelves, materials used, type of wall etc    ..........

I just did that, 'Electro Detective'... Will be interesting to hear how he responds...


P.S.    Here's the link to Mr. Carlson's latest post, including the above. You can see & hear the way
he talks, (to the un-initiated in this forum  ), and his in-depth methods of discussion, and use of
SOME of his above-mentioned equipment. And I love his clear Canadian 'speech' too 
P.P.S.   Yes, he looks like he is in a Lunar Module, preparing to re-launch back to Orbit ! 
He is trying to use his "write-upside-down" pen to reset/replace a faulty fuse/button somewhere...
P.P.P.S.   His fingernails are always spotlessly clean & manicured for closeup filming/photography !
P.P.P.P.S.   He, (and his partner), have a CAT which they love, and roams the Lab   


Oh!!!   P.P.P.P.P.S.      He correctly talks about 'SOL-dering', not 'SODDering !!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[Ian.M]

'soldar'...  It's not complicated mate. Wall-plugs, screws, simple shelves. Larger board on top
of desk... trust yourself !!  Keep it simple !... don't think too much about it. Just do it !   

The consequences of getting it wrong are expensive and if a shelf collapse occurs while you are working at the bench, you risk serious injury.

e.g. see https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/lab-storage-shelf-collapse-postmortem/
Just imagine a child walking underneath as that happens.

Unless you already have a professional grade understanding of the wall structure, and the limitations of common types of wall fastening, not thinking too much and "Just do it!" can get pretty dangerous.   I have seen a brick near the top of a wall start to pull out under the loading of a shelf bracket - the mortar was in poor condition, and the wall was one brick thick with no load on top of it.

You also have to consider the point loading of floor standing shelves.  Unless you are on the ground floor on a solid concrete pad, some knowledge of local building codes and the condition of the floor structure is needed if you are going to load the shelves more heavily than would be the case in normal domestic use.  The most heavily loaded shelves that an ordinary  household would be likely to have would be a fully filled floor to ceiling bookcase.   Take the density of books and papers as 750Kg/m³ and if your proposed shelves will have a higher floor loading, you need to do the formal structural loading assessment properly.

[TerraHertz]

This just begged to be done.

[Ian.M]

Quick and dirty hack job.  If you want to impress me, you'd need to photoshop all the test leads being pulled towards the black hole! 

[soldar]

'soldar'...  It's not complicated mate. Wall-plugs, screws, simple shelves. Larger board on top
of desk... trust yourself !!  Keep it simple !... don't think too much about it. Just do it !   

Yeah, I know. My OP was only meant to share that I spent some time making what I thought was an improvement (cutting into the rounded corner in the wall so the sides of the table could go up against the wall) only to realize later that the "defect" I had lived with for decades had the advantage that I could drop the cables and probes of the instruments down the side, out of the way, between the desk and the wall. I had become very used to this convenience and now, after the 'improvement" I did not have it any more so I might have to go back and put the desk the way it was.

And so what was supposed to be a very minor thing is turning into a "while I'm at it I might as well do this and that" never-ending project with some analysis-paralysis thrown in.

At present I am inclined to go with hanging from the wall because that frees the desk from weight and makes desk and shelves independent of each other.

I have a lot of slotted angle strips which I could use and that would be the easiest but I think I prefer the look of wood. Slotted angle also gives me more flexibility if I want to make changes later on.

[cjs]

3) bench lights.... Overhead lighting is better but its still a good addon if you are working with a breadboard or something. 

The little rechargable LED desk lights are great for getting a bit of extra light on to some particular part from an extra angle, and they avoid cable clutter while you're doing it. When done, fold it up, stick it back out of the way and plug it into the charger.

I use this one, which costs less than USD 20.

I also use floor-standing shelves behind the worktop. I have my monitor mounted on a monitor arm attached to the shelves as well so that I can actually move the entire table away from the shelves when I need to re-organize or do more than trivial work on the PCs or other stuff under desk level. The shelves themselves are cheap but sturdy metal rack on casters so that I can unhook them from the wall at the top and roll them out a bit if I need to do any serious cabling behind them. (Even if I didn't have regular earthquakes here I'd probably firmly attach the shelves to the wall at their tops because it just seems like a good idea.)

[Electro Detective]

Filling a trolley with discounted scratch n dent wood, fancy DIY fasteners, new masonary drill bits, saw blades, chains and a weekend supply of BEER at the local big box store,
may not exactly get you the holding power and longevity in those lab photos above.

If you don't want to mess with crumbling bricks and wonky halfassed built walls, DUST drama,

and crossed fingers in deep prayer that a gear landslide won't ever happen...   

a four sided welded and or properly bolted simple internal steel cage, with ceiling join bridges, would support a lot of shelved heavy gear and itself,
without hacking walls and stressing over building regulations/insurance, future hole plugging/painting etc. 

You can always take it apart if bolted or if welded get the local welding guru to plasma cut the frame for re-use if moving out.

Better still, heavy duty adjustable shelving with low profile castors > with brakes! Look for used bargains and hire a truck/trailer for a few hours   
Buy once, cry once, a re-usable no brainer   


IMHO leave the walls to hold up the plaster and peg boards,
not invading cyclop electromonsters from another time...

[GlennSprigg]

'soldar'...  It's not complicated mate. Wall-plugs, screws, simple shelves. Larger board on top
of desk... trust yourself !!  Keep it simple !... don't think too much about it. Just do it !   

The consequences of getting it wrong are expensive and if a shelf collapse occurs while you are working at the bench, you risk serious injury.
...etc...   ...etc...

I'm sorry Ian, and to 'soldar' of course !!   
I was truly just being light-hearted with tongue-in-cheek! when I said that. Of COURSE everyone
should consider the type of wall/structure/hardware for load bearing abilities. I guess I subconsciously
also assumed that from the O.P.'s original photo, that his diversity of equipment would *not* be like
the also 'tongue-in-cheek' photo of 'Mr. Carlsons Lab', maybe needing structural girders to a Foundation. 

Speaking of that last line, above....  In the early 1970's of my apprenticeship with 'E.T.S.A', (The
Electricity Trust of South Australia, our power authority then), pre-digital, & pre-computers etc...
There was a special room built, with the most accurate & expensive analog volt-meter available, which
was used as the "Official Standard" for a 'Volt' (and more), as a State-Wide reference.
It sat on top of a large concrete plinth, which went through the 'floor' to it's own concrete foundation !
to stop any wear/vibration on the jeweled bearings. The room was also shielded.   
I'd love to know what happened to that, as it's all superfluous now !!

[coppercone2]

inquiry

[KL27x]

But the general assault of peoples tool count is kinda annoying. What's wrong with a planer wall? If you have it memorized you might be able to shave a few minutes off a job in the long run. Add up 5 minutes a day for a year and your talking worthwhile. Almost a whole day spent planing. And you can rotate them to maintain sharpness if you get some kind of bastard wood so you can increase up time then later possibly even export or assemblyline sharpening. Not to mention they will have slightly different ergonomics so if you are using them alot frequent location will change the distribution of forces on your body and possibly help with joint pain and muscle soreness. And the different tactile sensations from use may increase enjoyment of the activity and engage you psychologically.

There's nothing wrong with hoarding/collecting equipment/tools. Trying to justify it to yourself that they're all useful is when you have a problem. There's not all useful when you have 100 tools that are identical. Stumpy doesn't use all those planes, and he will be the first to tell you he collects them. He has 10 or 20 of the same exact plane, because he collects them. Not because he has them setup in 10 or 20 different ways, lols. Even if they were, how do you think he would tell them apart the way they are stored? I'm not talking about the complete set of planes (that's another story) at the bottom. But the 40 identical rabbet planes just stuck on a shelf. As for the complete set of planes.... no one uses them all. They are made in that many sizes for options/collectors. You don't use a #5 then say, damn, what I really need is the 5 1/2. Heck, I've watched the show for years, and I've never seen him use a single one of these rabbet/shoulder planes ever, and I might have seen him use a Bailey plane only in videos specifically about using planes.

I'm not assaulting Mr. Carlsson for collecting and displaying his collection. I'm just pointing this out to people using this as a template for putting together a working bench/lab. This is not for work; it's for show. I'm sure at some point Mr. Carlsson used every one of those devices and they served a very important purpose. Then he just can't bear to let it go when he got new tools and the old ones became 99.9% redundant... with maybe one unique feature that has a 50% chance to be used once in the next 50 years... which is why you store that somewhere else than your primary working space. You know what's more useful than redundant tools? Anything. A whiteboard. A clock. Empty space.

[coppercone2]

sounds like a mathematician trap. don't really need physical matter anymore? What you say is true if you have so many tools that your work space is inadequate. Otherwise more tools is better. It's just gonna end up shifting your focus to bigger shit since you have more space. It sounds like corporate discussion infiltrating hobby discussion almost since this is mostly because no one wants to provide engineers with fucking offices or individual work areas, while maintaining high end corporate furniture.  Mr Carlson actually has a giant room to the right of his lab with shelving and tables.

I think you might want to use different user interfaces at different times for different measurement sequences for convenience sake. You can go through a manual and do all the presetting for different measurements on different equipment then print out the sheets that you need to fill in numbers and fly through stuff like verification.

When you want to get things done at home with low energy after work by any means necessary I can see it working to have different tools to save you hardly quantifiable amounts of effort. I do this in the kitchen for instance. Otherwise when you want to cook your 16425th meal you will tend to start eating out. Plenty of people have more money then energy. Especially RF people that have to think hard at jobs and get paid bank. Sometimes its amazing that stuff actually gets done with the energy you might have. Then again I am the type of guy that might decide to make a sandwich, then realize the bread knife is dirty, then end up preparing a different meal rather then having to wash a knife..... (if its in the dishwasher and its not been turned on). If its a annoying cut cut bread at least that I know I have a high chance of butchering and making a leaky sandwich).

If I had to work there I would just get a pole camera connected to VR goggles so I can monitor that equipment lol (in case you need more data then the shape or a curve of spectrum from far away).

[soldar]

I'm sorry Ian, and to 'soldar' of course !!   
I was truly just being light-hearted with tongue-in-cheek! when I said that.

I understood you perfectly. No worries.

I have enough experience with mechanical things that I tend to overbuild so things falling off the wall would not be a problem for me.

Traditionally I have always tried to avoid making holes in walls because a hole is forever and you lose flexibility. I have always preferred floor-standing shelves for that reason. At he same time I do not like having my desk or work-bench in front of shelves, blocking the lower part.  Also, I always liked having the shelf over the work area so the screens and displays and controls are closer to me. I guess it is what I am used to.

So, discarding the shelves between desk and wall and going with shelves over the work surface I have three options: (1) hanging from wall, (2) resting on bench and (3) legs straddling bench.

Today I am feeling lazy and I am thinking I might go with leaving the shelves resting on the desk which is the easiest and the way they were. I am not looking for perfection, just something practical.

OTOH, I do want to have the work place ready to go all the time. Right now all my tools are piled up in a corner and it is a pain. I want to sit down and start working, not spend 30 minutes getting things ready on the kitchen table and another thirty minutes putting things away when I am done. I don't have that kind of patience.

[Ian.M]

Ex-retail heavy duty metal shelves are good for free-standing shelves over/behind a desk.   Worst case you might have  to cut holes in the bottom shelf for the rear legs of the desk.  You can often find compatible units with a perforated back panel for rows of hooks, that if you mix and match with regular shelves, is ideal for hanging probes and other test lead cables at the back between the shelf above and the bench top. 

[soldar]

I have an arc welder and can easily put something together. In Spain steel tube is way cheaper than wood unless you are reusing pallets -- which require quite some work to dismantle. 

As I said, I also have a lot of steel slotted angle length which I could use except I don't particularly like the looks. It's OK for garage shelving but that's about it.

In Spain old walls are solid brick so no problem anchoring to the wall. Now they are beginning to use metal studs and drywall for interior partitions. It makes passing cables easier but I wouldn't even call it a real wall. 

[Ian.M]

So now its got to look pretty as well?

You could spend a month or three designing and building a tubular steel frame combined desk and shelf set from scratch, and making the shelves adjustable would be a real PITA, then spend a week or two in the paintshop prettying it up.  Allowing for real life delays, that would put you back to the end of the summer or early autumn before you can get back to electronics. 

IMHO its time to go shopping for second hand commercial furniture and retail shopfittings.  Get a move on, spend some money and you could be back to doing electronics early next month.

e.g. Find a luxury steel frame executive desk with a damaged top going cheap.  You want it for a workbench, so sticking a *FUGLY* sheet of hardboard on the top for a worksurface isn't a problem.   The shop shelves I suggested are cantilevered, with strong slotted steel box beam L shaped uprights, brackets that slot onto them and have adjustable feet for levelling at the bottom, at the short end of the L which would go under the desk, and at the L corner.  They can be used open-sided or you can add side panels.   There's always small supermarkets going out of business so they are readily available second hand.  Clean them off and get a paint shop to respray them to match your decor. 

[coppercone2]

do you really want a steel desk for electronics though? What if it becomes energized for some reason?

Wood IMO

[Ian.M]

There's nothing wrong with a steel desk with the frame grounded and an insulating top (+ESD mat) for general electronics.  It only gets dicey if you are working with HV DC or live mains on an isolating transformer^*, and need a fully ground-free work area for safety.   

* If you are following current best practice and using a RCD protected supply and isolated differential probes rather than an isolating transformer, its not an issue for working on the primary side of mains PSUs etc.

[coppercone2]

I feel like eventually your gonna have a mains powered thing up on there. I don't like it, and I would still go for a solid vernier not a mat.

[Ian.M]

I said steel frame,  'Insulating top'.   If its wood or a wood based composite, it *MUST* be sealed against damp, or you cant guarantee it will stay insulating, after you spill flux, soldering sponge water etc. on it.   I wouldn't trust  veneer or a single layer of hardboard to provide mains insulation.   A steel top is *NOT* a good idea as its difficult to retrofit safe insulation at the edges, especially the front edge.

The ESD mat on top is *NOT* to be counted on for insulation for safe working - its only there to reduce the risk of ESD damage.

Also note the RCD on an electronics workbench *MUST* break *BOTH* Live and Neutral, otherwise charged caps on the primary side of SMPSes are high risk hazards.  As you are betting your life on the  RCD working if you touch the wrong part of a D.U.T, you'd better have two RCDs in series, both reputable western brands, and *NOT* the same model!

[soldar]

So now its got to look pretty as well?

Not really. I just think rectangular steel tube is stronger and looks better than slotted angle.

For a working surface I have always liked wood except for welding and other metal working but for anything else I always liked wood and mostly I just use plain old particle board.

If I am going to work with something greasy or dirty I'll lay down some newspaper.

[coppercone2]

angle is a bastard to clean, if I had to use angle to actually build something for myself it would have something to act as a flush infill so a cloth can wipe down on it without too much hassle. It's like a spider magnet too.