my battery gate

[ranch varment]

Imagine if you twist the two batteries and you change the input, -+ is 1  +- is 0.

this gate is (from the left top pole on the 2d schematic,  the right side (-) of the bottom right battery.) ->
...01
0.10
1.01

its an and+nor gate.

and its a useful one too!    It actually requires no diode, just a cross connection,  but the diode is in there just to constantly power a side on (+) with the deactivation side off (0 volts),  just for kicks.    the left side is inactive on the gate because its a rejector,  the right is constantly on in any combination so its not needed.






I traced this diagram then I slapped myself on the forehead when i realized you just wind the batteries in recharge mode!



To get and and nor by themselves you just compare to a constant source of - and +,  and then you do the bipolar gate again and you get nand and or.

[ranch varment]

this schematic ands, nors, nands and ors 2 bits,  -+ 1,  +- 0.

[Delta]

Say what?

[matseng]

Say what?

I think LOLWUT is the word you're looking for. O0

[amyk]

  Alternatively, u wot m8?

Learn how to draw a schematic and perhaps we'll actually understand what you're trying to say here... but so far it looks like you've just reinvented some sort of bipolar diode logic.

[ranch varment]

its all really fuzzy in my head so far.  but im trying to make a computer without semiconductors - then i can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch.

So the schematics are bad,  but its the concepts behind them.
That circuit I drew doesnt work,  I get shock back from the constant battery. (it just constantly feeds to itself.)  But now I know, thats the main thing.

[JVR]

[suicidaleggroll]

[ranch varment]

God man that guy is having an anuerism, stay off the cold and flu....  or itll happen to you.

I feel a warning to myself not to think im that special when i get it done.

[tom66]

its all really fuzzy in my head so far.  but im trying to make a computer without semiconductors - then i can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch.

So the schematics are bad,  but its the concepts behind them.
That circuit I drew doesnt work,  I get shock back from the constant battery. (it just constantly feeds to itself.)  But now I know, thats the main thing.

The basic building block of all logic is NAND or NOR gates. From these gates you can produce any type of logic circuit, including memory devices, adders, counters, etc.  Note an NAND gate is an AND gate followed by an inverter (it is not the same as an AND gate with the inputs inverted -- that is actually logically equivalent to an OR gate.)

Using diodes alone, it is possible to produce AND and OR gates. However, it is not possible to produce an inverter gate, which converts logic low to logic high and vice versa. The reason being is that you need some kind of amplification stage to make this work. This is usually implemented with transistors or other three-terminal semiconductor devices (but you can infact implement it with inductors and produce "magnetic logic")

Without an inverter gate, you will never make a "terrahert" computer. If you can find someway to make an inverter without an amplifier, you will deserve some kind of Nobel prize or something...

[GK]

Note an NAND gate is an AND gate followed by an inverter (it is not the same as an AND gate with the inputs inverted -- that is actually logically equivalent to an OR gate.)

An AND gate with the inputs inverted is a NOR gate. A NAND gate with the inputs inverted is an OR gate.

[ranch varment]

If you go through a gate, invert inputs before the next gate, its the equivilent of inverting the output of the gate you just went through.   so inverting the input is all you need.

[VK3DRB]

its all really fuzzy in my head so far.  but im trying to make a computer without semiconductors - then i can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch.

You may think anyone who says "a terrahert" is an idiot.

But no, after some research on the information superhighway, we find that one hurt = a kick in the tecticles. One killer hurt = 1000 hurts. But this guy "can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch." He obviously forgot to switch the electric fence on first before having a leak.

Who "hertz" is named after... "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Hertz".

As for trying to make a computer without semiconductors, here are some ideas...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hollerith
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC

[ranch varment]

GK  thats what I said.  FOLLOWED by an inverter.

[Delta]

GK  thats what I said.  FOLLOWED by an inverter.

and how does one make an inverter without any active devices?

[suicidaleggroll]

GK  thats what I said.  FOLLOWED by an inverter.

and how does one make an inverter without any active devices?

Easy, just swap the terminals on the battery!

[lapm]

its all really fuzzy in my head so far.  but im trying to make a computer without semiconductors - then i can piss at a terrahert and not even flinch.

You do realize that diode is semiconductor  Or maybe you want to try build one from relays of vacuum tubes?

And to make teraherz capable computer takes more then just ignoring active devices, you do need transistors in form or another to build effective computer. Trust me, people lot smarter them me or you are studying these things how to make faster computers...

[ranch varment]

I just thought of something.  I think im just making connection tables,  and of course you need transistors to drive them, and me switching a battery is enacting a mechanical switch.

I think my setup will be   not or not or,   and then ill be able to do everything except continue my state,  and the whole computer is run off truth tables.

[hamster_nz]

Ranch, Two ideas that might be of inspiration for transistor-free computing:

1. Relays (yeah, old school). Normally open and Normally closed contacts allow you to invert signals.

2. (And much more interesting), is an all-diode design, using LEDs and photo-diode pairs to do the switching.

Please excuse my poor ascii art - all the diode symbols are photodiodes:

Code: [Select]


   AND GATE

   5V ----|>|----|>|-----<output LED here>--resistor--- Gnd

   OR GATE
        +--|>|--+
   5V --+       +----<output LED here>--resistor--- Gnd
        +--|>|--+


NANDs and NORs can be made too - that is a bit of an exercise for you.

By putting the output LEDs shining into the photodoides you should be able to compute. If you were to use 540nm sensitive diodes and the matching green LEDs, the you could actually watch it and debug it visually.

So there is what seems to be an almost workable idea for a diode-only hybrid optical computer for you to experiment with.

[ranch varment]

I didnt think of that!   thats cool.  So you can switch with light,  whats the speed like?

[tom66]

I didnt think of that!   thats cool.  So you can switch with light,  whats the speed like?

Photodiodes and LEDs CAN be fast... but to make photodiodes fast, you can't use them as forward biased diodes. You need to amplify the photocurrent, which is a few microamps.
(To do this, you'll need a transistor... or some kind of amplifier circuit...)

[hamster_nz]

I didnt think of that!   thats cool.  So you can switch with light,  whats the speed like?

Photodiodes and LEDs CAN be fast... but to make photodiodes fast, you can't use them as forward biased diodes. You need to amplify the photocurrent, which is a few microamps.
(To do this, you'll need a transistor... or some kind of amplifier circuit...)

Ranch, Two ideas that might be of inspiration for transistor-free computing:

1. Relays (yeah, old school). Normally open and Normally closed contacts allow you to invert signals.

2. (And much more interesting), is an all-diode design, using LEDs and photo-diode pairs to do the switching.

Please excuse my poor ascii art - all the diode symbols are photodiodes:

Code: [Select]


   AND GATE

   5V ----|>|----|>|-----<output LED here>--resistor--- Gnd

   OR GATE
        +--|>|--+
   5V --+       +----<output LED here>--resistor--- Gnd
        +--|>|--+


NANDs and NORs can be made too - that is a bit of an exercise for you.

By putting the output LEDs shining into the photodoides you should be able to compute. If you were to use 540nm sensitive diodes and the matching green LEDs, the you could actually watch it and debug it visually.

So there is what seems to be an almost workable idea for a diode-only hybrid optical computer for you to experiment with.

EDIT: Yep, I realise they are the wrong way round... D'oh!

[ranch varment]

Back on transistors just for a tick,    I look at transistor designs and one thing ive noticed is they use switches talking to switches.

Wouldnt you have less transistors (by about half) if you kept current constant on one switch side, and let the other pass it through?


[EDIT] thanks alot hampz for not joining in with the kill noob mob... [/EDIT]

[Delta]

How about using pint glasses?
A full one represents a binary 1, and empty a binary zero.
By pouring them back and forth (with the kitchen sink as GND and kitchen tap as Vcc as needed) in accordance with a truth table, you could easily create the needed gates, without being hindered by the switching speed of transistors. Terrorhurts here we come!

[hamster_nz]

Back on transistors just for a tick,    I look at transistor designs and one thing ive noticed is they use switches talking to switches.

Wouldnt you have less transistors (by about half) if you kept current constant on one switch side, and let the other pass it through?

But how do you make a constant current source without using an transistor? If you just use a resistor then  it would look something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistor%E2%80%93transistor_logic - very old school and very power hungry.