Musk leaving S.F. Sept. 13th while local leaders attempt image 'makeover'

[RJSV]

   Only scanned replies briefly, but here is some thoughts & casual rebuttal:

   Someone has, here, used the term:
   'Neo-Nazi Post's.  (In Twitter).
See what I mean, regarding Forum dialog.   I just don't see any way, HOW, flinging a label like that is anything other than a highly political smear....and likely easily disproved (at least by way of free speech).

   "Have you actually seen the S.F. scene, or actually live there ? " (Arguing about decay and dystopia is a myth).
Well,...I've lived nearby.
   Street pavers and utility workers, nearby, claim to 'not be safe, working' (actual armed robberies preying on construction team members).

   Local Drug Stores closing madly fast, due to organized retail theft.   Yesterday, I observed the ICE CREAM freezer shelves, in local Drug Store:   all with LOCKS on the freezer doors.   (You need to go find a store manager, now, to unlock the product, so you can purchase).

   Another now closed Drug Store was one I've used, (and may need to obtain medicine later).   Later, then, I'll have to find another pharmacy.

   Senior citizens now report a newer type of robbery crime, where the victim gets to be 'kidnapped', and driven around to find sources of cash...(From friends or family).

   Local news no longer report crimes like robbery, home burglary / assaults....What's that about ?
 
   I wanted to be discussing JOB markets, like the mention here, that Musk is moving operations down the peninsula, (to San Jose)
A technology company moving and effects on JOBS marketplace.   How does 'Neo-nazi' posts relate to the biz moving ?

   San Francisco is very beautiful, and a great mixing culture, from many many parts of the world.   But, like I mentioned, the 'image' things seem to be getting lots of attention, lately.
Seems like Musk is saying:
   'Too little, too late'....and isn't swayed by recent 'image' management of home city.

[nctnico]

   Local Drug Stores closing madly fast, due to organized retail theft.   Yesterday, I observed the ICE CREAM freezer shelves, in local Drug Store:   all with LOCKS on the freezer doors.   (You need to go find a store manager, now, to unlock the product, so you can purchase).

A picture or it didn't happen... I can imagine this being true in the US though. 

[ataradov]

People steal stuff because stores let them steal stuff. And then when people do, they have to lock everything. And then it backfires and just forces people into online stores.

All those myths that it is legal to steal are just that - myths. Stores actively don't want to pursue those crimes and just let criminals go. They can actually start pressing charges and setting the precedent. Even if resulting fines are not life-ruining, like some people want, just wasting people's time and resources would be enough of a deterrent.

Some time ago there was a story (no idea how real) that Target let some woman steal until the total was over the felony level and then pressed charges. Do more of than and make sure it hits the news.

[nctnico]

People steal stuff because stores let them steal stuff. And then when people do, they have to lock everything. And then it backfires and just forces people into online stores.

Probably, but it also says something about decaying society. If people steal from stores, they likely steal from other places and from other people as well. Recently I watched a documentary series called 'how music became free'. The source for the latest music available on internet even before it was released, was an employee at the biggest CD pressing factory in the US. The person claimed he had a right to steal CDs because he wasn't paid well enough. This kind of false entitlement is like a cancer.

In the NL you can go to any 'manned' gas station and fill your car before paying. People stealing gas is rare (because it is easy to catch people through the license plate). However, in the south of Europe, it is quite common to have to prepay.

[ataradov]

It is more of economic insecurity, since a lot of that stolen stuff gets resold for money. And I guess economic insecurity leads to the decay. I can see how there is more economic issues in an expensive area like SF.

And part of the issue caused by the Target itself. They gouged the prices so hard, people can't afford their stuff anymore. They recently had the whole campaign lowering their prices with "new lower price" tags all over the place. Clearly they saw drop off in consumer activity.

And from what I understand most of the issues with the San Jose store were due to a homeless encampment nearby. And homelessness is an issue that is present almost everywhere in the US, but high cost of living the Bay does not help. The climate helps too. I know if I'm homeless, I'm making my way to a warmer climate area.

[RJSV]

   Well, thanks folks, for comments.   I've learned that issues here are not about leaving the state (California govt. often gets blame, for companies leaving).   So, Musk hasn't decided to pull the 'X' headquarters out of the state, so it's less of a global effect, but more just a smaller 'adjustment' to market changes.
Also, many of the employees now living in SF could relocate, although San Jose housing gets crazy expensive as well.

   But yeah;   I don't have much quality access, to news that is basically trustworthy, which is part of why I've had to ask for more clarity.

[Sal Ammoniac]

People steal stuff because stores let them steal stuff. And then when people do, they have to lock everything. And then it backfires and just forces people into online stores.

Probably, but it also says something about decaying society. If people steal from stores, they likely steal from other places and from other people as well. Recently I watched a documentary series called 'how music became free'. The source for the latest music available on internet even before it was released, was an employee at the biggest CD pressing factory in the US. The person claimed he had a right to steal CDs because he wasn't paid well enough. This kind of false entitlement is like a cancer.

I live in California close enough to S.F. to visit it fairly often. Part of the problem has been the relaxation of laws that criminalize shoplifting. The goal of this was to reduce the pressure on local jails and courts, but it's backfired because people know what the limit is (it's something like $900 or $1000--I forget the exact figure) and will take care to steal stuff that adds up to below that limit. It got so flagrant that these laws are being repealed and arrests and prosecutions for shoplifting are increasing again.

I live in a fairly affluent suburb and one night a group of people in 69 cars pulled up the Nordstrom's store in a local mall, went into the store, and grabbed whatever they could get their hands on before leaving in their cars. The local police only caught three of them. After that incident, the owners of the mall permanently closed the street that fronted the stores in the mall to prevent this kind of incident. A similar thing happened to an up-scale store in S.F.

So what started out as an attempt to decriminalize minor crimes like shoplifting backfired when a certain class of people took advantage of the change in the laws to make money at the expense of business owners (and their insurance companies). Some businesses just gave up and closed stores in areas that passed these laws. Others locked up stuff behind glass and buying any of it requires finding a store employee with a key.

This is just one example of people taking advantage of situations at the expense of everyone else. Here's another: not far from me is a road out in the country that is very sparsely populated and dark at night (no streetlights). People use this road to dump all manner of junk, including old appliances, mattresses, old furniture, yard waste, used motor oil, and refrigerators. There's a landfill operation in the same city, but they charge $30 to dump a load of junk, so people dump their junk on the side of that lonely road rather than pay $30.

Does this signify a general decline in a society? I think it does.

[themadhippy]

There's a landfill operation in the same city, but they charge $30 to dump a load of junk,

we have similar problems here,council introduce charges or restrictions to use the tip,that our council tax is supposed to pay for, to try and save money,and then complain that its costing them 3 or 4 times the savings to clear up after fly tippers

[coppice]

There's a landfill operation in the same city, but they charge $30 to dump a load of junk,

we have similar problems here,council introduce charges or restrictions to use the tip,that our council tax is supposed to pay for, to try and save money,and then complain that its costing them 3 or 4 times the savings to clear up after fly tippers

UK council refuse sites have weird rules. Most of them won't take tyres. When we moved into this there was a tyre based swing on a tree in the garden. We tried to take the tyre to the council site. They refused it. They said we should go to a tyre dealer. We tried that. None of the tyre dealers would accept it. They would only deal with the disposal of tyres they took off cars while fitting new ones. I was happy to pay a reasonable amount, but nobody wanted to take my money. I think the tyre is still in the corner of the garden somewhere.

[tom66]

There's a landfill operation in the same city, but they charge $30 to dump a load of junk,

we have similar problems here,council introduce charges or restrictions to use the tip,that our council tax is supposed to pay for, to try and save money,and then complain that its costing them 3 or 4 times the savings to clear up after fly tippers

UK council refuse sites have weird rules. Most of them won't take tyres. When we moved into this there was a tyre based swing on a tree in the garden. We tried to take the tyre to the council site. They refused it. They said we should go to a tyre dealer. We tried that. None of the tyre dealers would accept it. They would only deal with the disposal of tyres they took off cars while fitting new ones. I was happy to pay a reasonable amount, but nobody wanted to take my money. I think the tyre is still in the corner of the garden somewhere.

I sold my old tyres as partworns for 99p on eBay to someone who was clearly a bit desperate for tyres - they had 3mm on them so still legal but beyond my liking.  Cheaper than disposing of them (called a few places and £30 was the lowest price I found).

I'll never tell the garage "oh yeah it's okay I'll keep the old tyres" again. 

[LaserSteve]

 :horse:Just before Covid I was a guest of a spinoff company of a really big tech company we all know and love, My host, a nice young lady, commuted one and a half hours each way with her dog. Dogs were welcome in the offices.  Cats not so much. You placed your breakfast order the night before, and your lunch order on arrival. Baby-sitting was also provided. I can attest the motel taxes were 120$ a night. Company attire was setting on a shelf on a take as you need basis.  These were not perks. I enjoyed what would have been a two Michelin Star meal in the office.

these services were provided, even to very junior staff, due to the time commitment for the commute to affordable housing.

I had a service call at UCLA, I needed an m3x10 mm screw to replace one a grad student lost or borrowed on a tunable OPO. I located the needed screw at an Ace Hardware 7 miles from campus. I didn't have a rental car, so I asked for a grad student to give me a ride. After all, replace the screw , align the beam path, and I'm done a day early, saving them 1500$.
I would have happily spent my evening finishing up. My next customer wanted the key missing piece of their new x-ray litho system installed. Their solution was three twelve hour shifts per week with dorms on site. The plant runs 20 hours a day, seven days a week.

NO GO,  The professor said have a bag of screws sent FedEx Overnight, for me to go back to the on campus hotel and hit the pool. Reasoning being that the risk of having a grad student drive under the 401 at peak rush hour was a substantial threat to the students personal vehicle.

EPILOGUE: Much to my shock, my next customer was very understanding about the situation. In fact they were more interested in my evaluation of the student. From their standpoint, the prof is right.

Oh well, I live in the Midwest, where 12 inch overnight snowstorms are considered a mere hinderence on a workday.

Typical Ohio..." I'm sorry I'm late, there were 10 black ice spinouts and two jack knifed semis on Rt. 8. ". Well, glad you made it, try to leave home earlier next time"..

San Fran and LA are wonderful places, but they are no longer economical for most business cases.

I'm going to side with Elon on this one.

STEVE








 

[aeberbach]

Twitter is in free fall. Another move won't help.

[Jeroen3]

X is not in freefall, it's burning up in re-entry. Nothing of value will be lost anymore.

[iMo]

Well, market oriented economies work in cycles and phases.. And the bay area can hardly avoid that (unless they switch to a centrally planned economy which may end up even worse)..

[Njk]

Once in San Jose I wanted to visit a big retail store in a couple of miles from the hotel. I planned to get there by foot. Then noticed a tram line on the street. The railway is in the right direction and a tram is coming. I'd changed my mind and took advantage of public transportation. I boarded the tram, but had a ticket problem as there was no conductor, no device like funnel for coins and no one to ask. So it was actually a free ride. No idea if I'm a violator or there is a free municipal tram service in San Jose

[ataradov]

San Jose has light rail and the ticketing  machines are located on the platforms. But in practice tickets are rarely checked.

[Njk]

Thanks. So I was just lucky that time

[coppice]

I've been on tram and light rail trips a couple of time in foreign places where I reached my destination and had to get off before figuring out how the payment system works.