Author Topic: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?  (Read 12744 times)

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Offline M. András

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 05:26:08 pm »
the graphics card atleast most of the ati/amd cards what i use have damn dual dvi ports which is shared so no way on earth to hook up 2 monitors there and display 2 different things on them...

You sure? ATI cards with twin DVI or DVI+HDMI should support two monitors and extend your desktop perfectly fine.
You have to tell them to go into that mode though, the default mode is clone.
i wrote the dual dvi port is shared. so both of them acts as one, controlled as one but displays to 2 monitor due to 2 physical port, which is waste of space even for cutout for airflow anything
im using the dvi+hdmi combo due to i wont buy a displayport-hdmi or dvi cable  cos its far more expensive then its worth so 2 displayport is currently unused
 

Offline M. András

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2012, 05:42:15 pm »
1394 is dead due to its DMA and ability to take over some control over the system.... it was a vulnerability issue, and besides it would never work with MPAA, RIAA et all due to lack of encryption and drm.

Hollywood and everyone wants encryption, drm, that's why HDMI appeared, among other reasons. DVI initially didn't have HDCP, they added it later and that's how it survived as a connector.

USB3 is very close to PCI Express, SATA goes towards PCI Express as well (the are drawings of a future pci express x4 slot in which you can plug up to 2 sata connectors directly), thunderbold can pass several pci express lanes through it.

Thunderbold is pushed by Intel and Apple because it's their design and companies would have to pay them royalties for it, it's not free like DVI or Displayport.  But as functionality displayport is nice, being able to move pci express, network, sound and video all through the cable, and connect several devices through single cable like SCSI used to do.
it would been better if those extra resource and money wasting copy protection system would be doomed right from the start, if you want to sell more of the digital goods. sell it cheaper you still gain a huge money on them right from the start. a new movie for example starts at 30 bucks or more when they come out of the cinema, few monts later now only 10 bucks or less which makes bigger profit? sell 2-4times more at lower prices or sell less at higher price then drop the prices cos its not selling like you want it. i remember when i tried to copy an original music CD to a sony MD disc the recorder refused to initiate the recording due to it sensed the protection on the CD via optical connection but it didnt care about the protection when used plain old analog rca connection
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2012, 06:30:16 pm »
1394 is dead due to its DMA and ability to take over some control over the system.... it was a vulnerability issue, and besides it would never work with MPAA, RIAA et all due to lack of encryption and drm.

The 'security' issue was never exploited, and is a total non-issue on present machines. And 1394, by itself, has nothing to do with video or audio, so that doesn't matter.

the graphics card atleast most of the ati/amd cards what i use have damn dual dvi ports which is shared so no way on earth to hook up 2 monitors there and display 2 different things on them...

You sure? ATI cards with twin DVI or DVI+HDMI should support two monitors and extend your desktop perfectly fine.
You have to tell them to go into that mode though, the default mode is clone.
i wrote the dual dvi port is shared. so both of them acts as one, controlled as one but displays to 2 monitor due to 2 physical port, which is waste of space even for cutout for airflow anything
im using the dvi+hdmi combo due to i wont buy a displayport-hdmi or dvi cable  cos its far more expensive then its worth so 2 displayport is currently unused

Uhm, no, they're not typically built that way. You have two discrete DVI ports, one of which is shared with an HDMI port.
 

Offline chrome

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2012, 06:53:06 pm »
the graphics card atleast most of the ati/amd cards what i use have damn dual dvi ports which is shared so no way on earth to hook up 2 monitors there and display 2 different things on them...

You sure? ATI cards with twin DVI or DVI+HDMI should support two monitors and extend your desktop perfectly fine.
You have to tell them to go into that mode though, the default mode is clone.
i wrote the dual dvi port is shared. so both of them acts as one, controlled as one but displays to 2 monitor due to 2 physical port, which is waste of space even for cutout for airflow anything
im using the dvi+hdmi combo due to i wont buy a displayport-hdmi or dvi cable  cos its far more expensive then its worth so 2 displayport is currently unused

What videocard do you have that doesn't allow 2 dvi ports to be used.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2012, 07:03:25 pm »
ATI cards have one vga, one DVI-I  ( digital + analogue, vga out is in this connector), one DVI-D (digital only) shared with HDMI if there is one. So the cards should run 3 monitors, one on vga and two on digital connections, but I'm not sure, the vga I think is generated from the first digital output so only two monitors are actually usable.

With displayport, you can get an active displayport to dvi and get a third monitor running.

Of course, there are cards that have 6 outputs like this one:



 

Offline T4P

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2012, 08:42:35 pm »
DisplayPort is still growing, every damn high-performance graphics card will have a few of them!
Thunderbolt? Good luck finding that on a normal motherboard. or intel chipset
Only a severely overpriced abomination will have it.
USB2 wasn't slow, it was actually several thousand files that will slow down even a transfer from the SAME disk to another partition
USB3 however is FAST and BTW, STOP USING YOUR 5400RPM 2.5" IT'S NOT GOING TO DO YOU ANY GOOD ON USB3
That said, use a 7200rpm 2.5" on USB3 or go to 3.5"
Or get a proper SSD, not a crap one ( What was it? What was the brand that had failing SSDs? Ah yes, OCZ )
Next : Higher currents available, how could you argue with that. I have never been able to run a normal laptop drive without having to use the daisy chain for extra power on USB2

And wait, Thunderbolt's only good feature? Expansion connector, THAT'S ALL. And probably a provision for a external GPU (like finally it's possible)
And yet it's only going to be available on the abomination

@Mariush
Beginning with the HD 6970/6990,
They have DP version 1.2 so they can support three monitors on a single DP and another three on the other one
And well with the 6990 you have 4 DP 1.2 connectors ...
No need to have 6 DP connectors, WOOHOO!
The new kingpin
Simply MASSIVE
 

Offline DrGeoff

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 08:54:46 pm »
DisplayPort is still growing, every damn high-performance graphics card will have a few of them!
Thunderbolt? Good luck finding that on a normal motherboard. or intel chipset

Thunderbolt is now available on Asus, MSI and Gigabyte motherboard to name a few. Using the Intel Z77 chipset.

Which motherboards have displayport on them?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 08:56:27 pm by DrGeoff »
Was it really supposed to do that?
 

Offline gxti

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2012, 08:55:29 pm »
Thunderbolt just came off an exclusive license with a certain Californian fruit company, which is why you're only now starting to see it in the market, and only in the high-end stuff because it's for the early adopters. In a year or so I'll be more prevalent, though still burdened with licensing and hardware costs. Not that I'm going to run out and buy anything, but that's why it's rare. And while USB 3 is cheaper than thunderbolt, it still has licensing costs (usually baked into the PHY's price) and has not reached a fraction of the saturation that USB 2 has. These things take time.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2012, 09:05:59 pm »
USB2 wasn't slow, it was actually several thousand files that will slow down even a transfer from the SAME disk to another partition

Yes, it was slow. Very slow.

DisplayPort is still growing, every damn high-performance graphics card will have a few of them!
Thunderbolt? Good luck finding that on a normal motherboard. or intel chipset

Thunderbolt is now available on Asus, MSI and Gigabyte motherboard to name a few. Using the Intel Z77 chipset.

Which motherboards have displayport on them?

Quite a few, actually.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2012, 08:39:14 am »
Thunderbolt is now available on Asus, MSI and Gigabyte motherboard to name a few. Using the Intel Z77 chipset.

Which motherboards have displayport on them?
Oops. I forgot the Z77 but that's not the point.
Z77 boards are expensive at the same time!
DisplayPort is just a display connector not a damn I/O!
USB = Universal, easy to implement
Thunderbolt = Not universal and hard to implement but fast
The new AMD ones like the A85X chipset series have displayport
Here's a few :
Gigabyte F2A85X-UP4
Gigabyte F2A85X-D3H
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: From a technical standpoint, is USB3 a fail?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2012, 09:22:10 am »
The cards can drive the following combinations;

One dual link DVI-I device + one VGA device (via the DVI-I single link port) + one HDMI device + 2 mini displayport devices
--or--
One dual link DVI-I device + one DVI-I (single link) digital device + 2 mini displayport devices
--or--
One VGA device (via the DVI-I dual link port) + one DVI-I (single link) digital device + 2 mini displayport devices
--or--
One VGA device (via the DVI-I dual link port) + one VGA device (via the DVI-I single link port) + one HDMI device + 2 mini displayport devices

One mini displayport connector is also electrically connected to the single link DVI-I port so you can use a passive DVI to displayport adapter, however if the DVI port is in use you can only use displayport devices like an ACTIVE converter.

Which means that;
If you wish to drive more than 1 dual link DVI device (a monitor with a resolution greater than 1920x1200, or a device that has an unusually high refresh rate) you will need an active mini displayport to dual link DVI converter.
If you wish to drive more than 2 electrically DVI devices [the HDMI port is just electrically connected to the DVI port, no actual signal conversion) you will need an active mini displayport to DVI converter.

As I have 3 2560x1440 monitors, I use a single DVI-I dual link and two mini displayport to DVI-D Dual Link converters.

I hope this clarifies.
 


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