Tesla Model S, Third Fire

[staxquad]

@staxquad: care to explain that one ?
For starters : you're canadian....

For starters : you're Canadian....

fify

What's there to explain, they are confident with your money (and everybody else's who purchase the cars.  It is a business, not a charity, you should know, you forked out a fortune for the commuter )

and thank you for the compliment (For starters : you're Canadian.... why would a Netherlander ever say that, and why would he be disrespectful by not capitalizing?)

[staxquad]

ftfy

FTFY.

fify

fixed it for ya

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FIFY

[JoeyP]

accident serious enough to leave the driver unconscious while the car burns

Is that any different with a gas vehicle? 

No it isn't, which is the point. People are touting Tesla as being safer than gas vehicles because they don't carry the gas. But so far, they seem to burn just fine with no gasoline on board.

[M. András]

are there any pictures of that debris which punctured the battery packs? if the thick baseplate of that battery pack i punchured what would happen with the normal low cost cars made today from fucking sheetmetal? that will end up in the passenger cabin or even in the passenger

[zapta]

2: tesla requested the NTSB to do a full investigation of the accidents. If something a design defect were to be discovered tesla will alter the design for new cars and retrofit ALL existing cars for FREE.

Where will they install the engine?

Seriously, I wish them well. Debris killed the Concord, hopefully it will not happen here. All I wish is to be off the hook from subsidizing it.

[dr.diesel]

No it isn't, which is the point. People are touting Tesla as being safer than gas vehicles because they don't carry the gas. But so far, they seem to burn just fine with no gasoline on board.

Yeah, but you can smoke while the Tesla is "refueling"...















Disclaimer: I don't smoke...

[zapta]

No it isn't, which is the point. People are touting Tesla as being safer than gas vehicles because they don't carry the gas. But so far, they seem to burn just fine with no gasoline on board.

Yeah, but you can smoke while the Tesla is "refueling"...

Yes, enough time for a a whole pack.  ;-)

[dr.diesel]

If Musk would have used an AC battery pack instead of the DC, karma wouldn't be coming back to burn him...

[staxquad]

No it isn't, which is the point. People are touting Tesla as being safer than gas vehicles because they don't carry the gas. But so far, they seem to burn just fine with no gasoline on board.

Yeah, but you can smoke while the Tesla is "refueling"...

Yes, enough time for a a whole pack.  ;-)

that's a lot of cigarette butts being thrown about
charging stations filled with Teslas would catch on fire 20x the gasoline rate




(well...it was a brush fire...with Teslas, less explosions but more intense fire?)

[SeanB]

Don't worry, I have had the VW fuse issue myself and fixed it myself. Figure asking VWSA for a warranty replacement on a 12 year old vehicle will be difficult. Saw a Ford Cortina go from running to a burning pyre in under 1 minute one night from my window, I was on the phone to the fire brigade, told them the location at the first flame and told them there was no hurry any more.

@G7PSK have you gotten the black marks from that grease out yet? Only grease I ever met that was worse for leaving stains than graphite grease.

[G7PSK]

Don't worry, I have had the VW fuse issue myself and fixed it myself. Figure asking VWSA for a warranty replacement on a 12 year old vehicle will be difficult. Saw a Ford Cortina go from running to a burning pyre in under 1 minute one night from my window, I was on the phone to the fire brigade, told them the location at the first flame and told them there was no hurry any more.

@G7PSK have you gotten the black marks from that grease out yet? Only grease I ever met that was worse for leaving stains than graphite grease.

Yes that stuff sure does stain, there has been occasions when changing the stuff that I have looked like I worked in a coal mine. But skin grows out after a while, but once in overalls there is no getting it out black for ever and a day.

[nctnico]

Don't worry, I have had the VW fuse issue myself and fixed it myself. Figure asking VWSA for a warranty replacement on a 12 year old vehicle will be difficult.

Why? We had a 10-ish year old He-young-die Excel and it got recalled to check some stabiliser rod for rust.

[tom66]

I love the comment by Elon about an arsonist not using a lithium ion battery to start a fire. While they could create a fire by being crushed, it wouldn't be very spectacular, unless it was in a larger pack. A lithium polymer battery is a lot worse.

[zapta]

I love the comment by Elon about an arsonist not using a lithium ion battery to start a fire. While they could create a fire by being crushed, it wouldn't be very spectacular, unless it was in a larger pack. A lithium polymer battery is a lot worse.

A cute sound bite by his PR firm. Electricity is a major cause of fire http://www.rmu.net/rmu-tips/home-electrical-fires-statistics-tips.html

Looks like they will need to do some re-engineering. An humbling experience for sure but not a big deal.

[tom66]

Indeed, lithium ion batteries do burn, but they can be made safer compared to lithium polymer type batteries.
I don't think Tesla are doing this though as they need maximum energy density, sacrificing some safety characteristics.
Generally crushing or overcharging these batteries will cause them to burn.

But I still can't get the image of an arsonist shouting "damnit why won't you burn!" to a lithium ion battery.

[G7PSK]

I read some time ago that lithium batteries would explode if punctured by some thing like a nail, so I arrange a test with an air powered nail gun with the nail gun held in a clamp and a piece of string on the trigger, this nail gun was used for fixing trailer decking to the steel chassis, it drove the nail right through the lithium battery which I had removed from an old lap top and fixed it to the steel bench but there was no explosion not even any smoke or flames, it was most disappointing in the results.

[nctnico]

Looks like they will need to do some re-engineering. An humbling experience for sure but not a big deal.

By that logic Ford should be begging us for forgiveness and re-designing every vehicle from the ground up.

Decades ago my uncle had to pick up his new Transit van from the Ford factory. It was brand new but it wouldn't start and the factory workers referred him to a Ford dealer so it had to be towed. My uncle somehow knew the bosses from the US where coming over so he waited until then and towed the Transit with a VW van. It took less than one round on the lot to get attention and suddenly the factory workers could fix the Transit.

[zapta]

Decades ago my uncle had to pick up his new Transit van from the Ford factory. It was brand new but it wouldn't start and the factory workers referred him to a Ford dealer so it had to be towed. My uncle somehow knew the bosses from the US where coming over so he waited until then and towed the Transit with a VW van. It took less than one round on the lot to get attention and suddenly the factory workers could fix the Transit.

This would go viral on Youtube.

[SeanB]

Don't worry, I have had the VW fuse issue myself and fixed it myself. Figure asking VWSA for a warranty replacement on a 12 year old vehicle will be difficult.

Why? We had a 10-ish year old He-young-die Excel and it got recalled to check some stabiliser rod for rust.

you never met the motor industry here. Recalls for coil packs that die but they charge labour and "consumables" on the repair, plus any other faults they find they "fix" without authorising.

[nctnico]

I came across this article today: A commercially available EV from the early seventies http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25117784

[mariush]

Not sure if this was posted already in this thread...

Link : http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131126/AUTO0102/311260052/Ford-recalling-140-000-13-Escape-SUVs-fire-risks

Ford recalling 2013 Escape SUVs for fire risks

Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday it is issuing two new recalls for fire risks in some 2013 Ford Escape SUVs, after it received new reports of engine fires.

The recalls are the latest setback for the vehicle that now has had seven separate recalls — including five for fires — and have twice forced the automaker to warn drivers to either stop driving them or get alternative transportation. But the company said those precautions aren’t necessary with the latest recalls.

Ford said it is recalling nearly 140,000 2013 Escape SUVs with 1.6-liter engines in the United States — and 161,333 worldwide — because of fires caused by overheating of the engine cylinder head, which can crack and leak oil. Ford said it had received reports of 13 fires, including one in Canada, stemming from the engine issue.

At least 12 other fires were reported in 2012 that were connected with a November 2012 Escape recall for coolant fluid leaks caused by overheating.

No injuries have been reported. In total, about 30 fires have been reported in North America in connection with the recalls, including a few that happened before the vehicles made it to customers.

Ford said Tuesday it is issuing a second recall to cover 9,469 2013 Escapes in the U.S. — and 11,821 worldwide — that will need to be inspected in order to prevent a fuel leak that could also result in an engine compartment fire. No fires have been reported.

Owners will be notified by late January to take the SUVs to a dealer to have fixes made to the engine shielding, cooling and control systems.

Ford spokeswoman Kelli Felker said the company was not urging owners to stop driving or providing alternative transportation ahead of the fixes for Tuesday’s recalls, as it had in some prior recalls for fire issues.

Business as usual for Ford... but 3 fires in Tesla is a serious problem...  (yeah, yeah, I know, tesla are much smaller volume so 3 issues in small number of cars and all that)

[nctnico]

30 fires from 140000 cars is one out of 4700 cars.
3 fires in 12000 cars is one out of 4000.
All in all Tesla does just as bad as Ford.

[zapta]

.. yeah, yeah, I know, tesla are much smaller volume so 3 issues in small number of cars and all that

Looks like your brain knows the facts but your heart prefers to ignore them ;-)

BTW, our clean energy shortage is over

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million

[mariush]

30 fires from 140000 cars is one out of 4700 cars.
3 fires in 12000 cars is one out of 4000.
All in all Tesla does just as bad as Ford.

Yeah .. but.. Ford has to recall all cars because they KNOW there's gonna be more failures because they designed the engine wrong.

On the other hand, all three Tesla fires are because some crap on the road was thrown into the bottom side of the car piercing through the metal shielding. It's not technical/mechanical fault with the car, something that would inconvenience buyers with recalls or visits to service shops... they're more like.. accidents. 
This could happen with any normal car and it probably does, it just doesn't start fires because there's no batteries there in regular cars.
I would put them in same category with gravel or stuff thrown by car ahead of you cracking the windshield.

Tesla apparently made a "temporary" fix by pushing firmware update which makes the car suspensions keep the car higher.

[BravoV]

BTW, our clean energy shortage is over

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/171660-1-megawatt-cold-fusion-power-plant-now-available-yours-for-just-1-5-million

Oh no, not again.