'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[kizmit99]

https://www.change.org/p/institute-of-electrical-and-electronics-engineers-stop-allowing-master-slave-terminology-in-technical-papers-9f405a6c-5c4c-4f62-adf4-187cd24491d8?source_location=topic_page

There isn't an option to disagree, so it's stupid.

And (apparently) you can only comment if you sign the petition - talk about an echo chamber...

[SilverSolder]

I somewhat remember, a similar thing, to the theme of this thread (challenging master/slave), something around 25 to 35+ years ago. It was an attempt to make things much more inclusive (around male/female terms), a sort of women/female-movement.
E.g. Renaming of Firemen, Policeman, Postman, Binman, etc. As well as many other things, to 'balance out', the mix of sexes (male/female), across jobs, and make it much fairer, for women.

E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_the_Elimination_of_All_Forms_of_Discrimination_Against_Women
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_equality

So, around 1980 I guess, so approximately 40 years ago.

What you want/need here, is equal opportunity, to do the different jobs, regardless of disability, age, male/female, weight, height, background, race, religion, etc etc. With (hopefully) obvious exceptions.

But what you don't want/need, is to force each job type, to have a mixture/balance, EXACTLY the same level as in the general population. Because if you force it, it can mean that unsuitable people are given the job, who are not really interested in it. Which can be damaging for that job function.

I.e. If you are suited to be an Electronics Engineer, then you can be, even if you are different to the normal profile of an Electronics Engineer.
But, forcing, e.g. 50% of them to be female, could mean that you end of with people, who are not interested in engineering, and it could damage the quality of the items, or lead to sky high salaries, in order to attract, the few, genuine engineers, from that category.

I.e. Equal opportunity, not forced percentages, imposed on employees.
Get the job(s), because of your merits for doing the job, not because you tick the population mix percentage tick boxes.

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I'm not sure I'd call it "sinister", it is more a case of being "stupid nice", or trying to solve a problem in a counterproductive way... 

There's a lot of that going around -   a strong desire to do good that is not backed up by enough ability to actually make a sustainable actual improvement to the world as a whole.

[Ed.Kloonk]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I hope the agenda, is to make society, a nicer, fairer, happier, environment, for everyone.
But, sometimes, the way they try and achieve this (politically), ends up being unfair, to many other people.
(Difficult to give examples, without creating political discussion, so I'll stop here, and not give examples).

All you gotta know is these people need to be told to stick to their knitting.

[coppice]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I'm not sure I'd call it "sinister", it is more a case of being "stupid nice", or trying to solve a problem in a counterproductive way... 

There's a lot of that going around -   a strong desire to do good that is not backed up by enough ability to actually make a sustainable actual improvement to the world as a whole.

Its an agenda that can only be achieved by authoritarianism, and I consider authoritarians sinister.

[MK14]

Its worse that just getting unsuitable people. Its a recipe for greater human misery, as people get bullied into doing things they don't want to do, and prevented from doing things they do want to do. Many studies show that Western women have been getting less and less satisfied with their lives since the 1960s, so the current course doesn't seen to be bringing them any joy.

The so called 'Do-Gooders', as discussed, earlier in this thread.
Which in practice, can cause all sorts of bad things, to potentially everyone.

E.g. Banning tungsten filament bulbs (for new sales in the EU). When there are all sorts of applications and people, who still, quite rightly want (and deserve), to be able to use them. Yes there are Led lights, but they can hurt your eyes (too bright, wrong light colour), flicker, and be annoying in other ways.

[SilverSolder]

What you want/need here, is equal opportunity, to do the different jobs, regardless of disability, age, male/female, weight, height, background, race, religion, etc etc. With (hopefully) obvious exceptions.

But what you don't want/need, is to force each job type, to have a mixture/balance, EXACTLY the same level as in the general population. Because if you force it, it can mean that unsuitable people are given the job, who are not really interested in it. Which can be damaging for that job function.

Its worse that just getting unsuitable people. Its a recipe for greater human misery, as people get bullied into doing things they don't want to do, and prevented from doing things they do want to do. Many studies show that Western women have been getting less and less satisfied with their lives since the 1960s, so the current course doesn't seen to be bringing them any joy.

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

What you want/need here, is equal opportunity, to do the different jobs, regardless of disability, age, male/female, weight, height, background, race, religion, etc etc. With (hopefully) obvious exceptions.

But what you don't want/need, is to force each job type, to have a mixture/balance, EXACTLY the same level as in the general population. Because if you force it, it can mean that unsuitable people are given the job, who are not really interested in it. Which can be damaging for that job function.

Its worse that just getting unsuitable people. Its a recipe for greater human misery, as people get bullied into doing things they don't want to do, and prevented from doing things they do want to do. Many studies show that Western women have been getting less and less satisfied with their lives since the 1960s, so the current course doesn't seen to be bringing them any joy.

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

The girls are now frowned upon for wanting a family. Apparently having a kid futzes with their independence.

Check out youtuber Georgia Free. Really in a quandary.

[SilverSolder]

What you want/need here, is equal opportunity, to do the different jobs, regardless of disability, age, male/female, weight, height, background, race, religion, etc etc. With (hopefully) obvious exceptions.

But what you don't want/need, is to force each job type, to have a mixture/balance, EXACTLY the same level as in the general population. Because if you force it, it can mean that unsuitable people are given the job, who are not really interested in it. Which can be damaging for that job function.

Its worse that just getting unsuitable people. Its a recipe for greater human misery, as people get bullied into doing things they don't want to do, and prevented from doing things they do want to do. Many studies show that Western women have been getting less and less satisfied with their lives since the 1960s, so the current course doesn't seen to be bringing them any joy.

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

The girls are now frowned upon for wanting a family. Apparently having a kid futzes with their independence.

Check out youtuber Georgia Free. Really in a quandary.

People are all different.  Some, you value for their "independence".  Some, you marry and have a family with.  Never the twain shall meet.  This has been the way of our species for millennia!

[MK14]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I hope the agenda, is to make society, a nicer, fairer, happier, environment, for everyone.
But, sometimes, the way they try and achieve this (politically), ends up being unfair, to many other people.
(Difficult to give examples, without creating political discussion, so I'll stop here, and not give examples).

All you gotta know is these people need to be told to stick to their knitting.

Well, I don't think everyone would agree with that.
But, the so called "Do-Gooders", don't seem to take into account, genuine differences, between the sexes, racially, etc.
tl;dr
They are trying to 'hammer' in square pegs, into round holes (old expression), and think they are doing good.
I.e. Put the wrong people, in the wrong job, for the wrong reasons.

[Ed.Kloonk]

What you want/need here, is equal opportunity, to do the different jobs, regardless of disability, age, male/female, weight, height, background, race, religion, etc etc. With (hopefully) obvious exceptions.

But what you don't want/need, is to force each job type, to have a mixture/balance, EXACTLY the same level as in the general population. Because if you force it, it can mean that unsuitable people are given the job, who are not really interested in it. Which can be damaging for that job function.

Its worse that just getting unsuitable people. Its a recipe for greater human misery, as people get bullied into doing things they don't want to do, and prevented from doing things they do want to do. Many studies show that Western women have been getting less and less satisfied with their lives since the 1960s, so the current course doesn't seen to be bringing them any joy.

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

The girls are now frowned upon for wanting a family. Apparently having a kid futzes with their independence.

Check out youtuber Georgia Free. Really in a quandary.

People are all different.  Some, you value for their "independence".  Some, you marry and have a family with.  Never the twain shall meet.  This has been the way of our species for millennia!

Ha! Indeed.

[Ed.Kloonk]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I hope the agenda, is to make society, a nicer, fairer, happier, environment, for everyone.
But, sometimes, the way they try and achieve this (politically), ends up being unfair, to many other people.
(Difficult to give examples, without creating political discussion, so I'll stop here, and not give examples).

All you gotta know is these people need to be told to stick to their knitting.

Well, I don't think everyone would agree with that.

Well, tough. 

But, the so called "Do-Gooders", don't seem to take into account, genuine differences, between the sexes, racially, etc.
tl;dr
They are trying to 'hammer' in square pegs, into round holes (old expression), and think they are doing good.
I.e. Put the wrong people, in the wrong job, for the wrong reasons.

That sentence tells me that you are yet to truly understand your enemy. No offense.

[coppice]

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

Mothers used to care for their young. Now they work, and have to pay someone else to care for their young. Now the mother pays tax on her pay, and the child minder pays tax on their pay. This has been an excellent win-win for Western governments. Its weird. Most people say they hate paying taxes, yet walk right into exchanging untaxed work for taxed work. Its almost like people don't think things through.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

Mothers used to care for their young. Now they work, and have to pay someone else to care for their young. Now the mother pays tax on her pay, and the child minder pays tax on their pay. This has been an excellent win-win for Western governments. Its weird. Most people say they hate paying taxes, yet walk right into exchanging untaxed work for taxed work. Its almost like people don't think things through.

Check this out. Drew Barrymore is on Social Media having a tantrum about how hard it is to raise her bastard kids cos the hired nannies can't come to work during the koof.

[SilverSolder]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I'm not sure I'd call it "sinister", it is more a case of being "stupid nice", or trying to solve a problem in a counterproductive way... 

There's a lot of that going around -   a strong desire to do good that is not backed up by enough ability to actually make a sustainable actual improvement to the world as a whole.

Its an agenda that can only be achieved by authoritarianism, and I consider authoritarians sinister.

Don't be intimidated!  Try to figure out what kind of person you are dealing with.  Example phone call with a female company representative I had never spoken with before, last week:


Me: "So you would need to discuss these requirements with your dev team?"

Her: "Yes, all of the things we've talked about here would be new features."

Me: "So how many guys are on the dev team?  ... erm, I guess I should really say 'Guys and Gals' these days... !"

Her: "[laughs]  'Guys'  is not gender specific, so you're safe there!"

Me: "[chuckles] I struggle a bit sometimes with 'They' and 'Them' and 'Their' and that kind of stuff. "

Her: "[laughs again] I've been in this business for a while.  You can say 'Him' and 'Her' to me!"

Me:  "[laughs]  Good to know, in case I slip up!  So nice talking with you, I'm looking out for your email."

Her: "[brightly] You too, catch up next week!"


So, now I know I'm dealing with an adult female with a brain, and that we are not going to be having any problems.  That's the trick!  (Needless to say, if she had turned out to be an authoritarian weirdo, I would not be doing any business with her.  See how that works?)

[SilverSolder]

Getting women into the workforce has basically changed the system so families don't have 2x disposable income, instead house prices went up so now both partners have to work just to make the budget hang together and maintain the same standard of living that used to require one salary in the past.

With full time work, women are getting all the stress and work related illnesses that used to be the sole domain of men.  Often they end up doing most of the housework / child rearing as well... 

Of course, it is a choice to some extent.  My wife and I decided that we'd take a hit on the disposable income front, and have her be 100% "homemaker" for about 10 years while the kids were small.   It was really tough financially compared to when she was working, but by cutting back on everything we managed. -  and no regrets! -  we were a happy family and I think this decision was a big part of the reason.

Mothers used to care for their young. Now they work, and have to pay someone else to care for their young. Now the mother pays tax on her pay, and the child minder pays tax on their pay. This has been an excellent win-win for Western governments. Its weird. Most people say they hate paying taxes, yet walk right into exchanging untaxed work for taxed work. Its almost like people don't think things through.

Good point.  Then there is the children that lose out on not having as good a relationship with their mother.  The mother also loses out on this.  The father loses out too, including by not having a happy family to come home to.

"Not thought through" is the kindest description I've heard!

[Ed.Kloonk]

You've got to understand that the agenda is so sinister that it doesn't care about consequences you mention.

I'm not sure I'd call it "sinister", it is more a case of being "stupid nice", or trying to solve a problem in a counterproductive way... 

There's a lot of that going around -   a strong desire to do good that is not backed up by enough ability to actually make a sustainable actual improvement to the world as a whole.

Its an agenda that can only be achieved by authoritarianism, and I consider authoritarians sinister.

Don't be intimidated!  Try to figure out what kind of person you are dealing with.  Example phone call with a female company representative I had never spoken with before, last week:


Me: "So you would need to discuss these requirements with your dev team?"

Her: "Yes, all of the things we've talked about here would be new features."

Me: "So how many guys are on the dev team?  ... erm, I guess I should really say 'Guys and Gals' these days... !"

Her: "[laughs]  'Guys'  is not gender specific, so you're safe there!"

Me: "[chuckles] I struggle a bit sometimes with 'They' and 'Them' and 'Their' and that kind of stuff. "

Her: "[laughs again] I've been in this business for a while.  You can say 'Him' and 'Her' to me!"

Me:  "[laughs]  Good to know, in case I slip up!  So nice talking with you, I'm looking out for your email."

Her: "[brightly] You too, catch up next week!"


So, now I know I'm dealing with an adult female with a brain, and that we are not going to be having any problems.  That's the trick!  (Needless to say, if she had turned out to be an authoritarian weirdo, I would not be doing any business with her.  See how that works?)

Assert your dominance by asking what sandwiches she like to make.




 

[james_s]

E.g. Banning tungsten filament bulbs (for new sales in the EU). When there are all sorts of applications and people, who still, quite rightly want (and deserve), to be able to use them. Yes there are Led lights, but they can hurt your eyes (too bright, wrong light colour), flicker, and be annoying in other ways.

I don't want to derail the thread here but if LED bulbs are too bright, wrong color, flicker, etc then you've bought the wrong bulbs. There are many good quality LED bulbs on the market that provide an excellent facsimile of an old fashioned tungsten lamp, and you can still get tungsten lamps for the niche applications they are really needed. Having not used one for general illumination in nearly 20 years I'm frankly always a little shocked to find that there are still people using them outside of special applications and nostalgia. They're as obsolete as oil lamps IMO, which are also still readily available for decorative and nostalgia uses just like tungsten lamps. There is no reason to use incandescent for illumination in a modern home or commercial building.

[0culus]

E.g. Banning tungsten filament bulbs (for new sales in the EU). When there are all sorts of applications and people, who still, quite rightly want (and deserve), to be able to use them. Yes there are Led lights, but they can hurt your eyes (too bright, wrong light colour), flicker, and be annoying in other ways.

I don't want to derail the thread here but if LED bulbs are too bright, wrong color, flicker, etc then you've bought the wrong bulbs. There are many good quality LED bulbs on the market that provide an excellent facsimile of an old fashioned tungsten lamp, and you can still get tungsten lamps for the niche applications they are really needed. Having not used one for general illumination in nearly 20 years I'm frankly always a little shocked to find that there are still people using them outside of special applications and nostalgia. They're as obsolete as oil lamps IMO, which are also still readily available for decorative and nostalgia uses just like tungsten lamps. There is no reason to use incandescent for illumination in a modern home or commercial building.

Except the majority of LED lighting sold for home use contains shitty SMPS that (1) spew EMI and (2) are prone to blowing up long before the actual LED is anywhere near EOL. I'd love to see examples of high quality LED lighting that is properly designed not to create EMI and also not to blow up prematurely.

[james_s]

Mothers used to care for their young. Now they work, and have to pay someone else to care for their young. Now the mother pays tax on her pay, and the child minder pays tax on their pay. This has been an excellent win-win for Western governments. Its weird. Most people say they hate paying taxes, yet walk right into exchanging untaxed work for taxed work. Its almost like people don't think things through.

I had not actually thought of this before but it brings to mind an interesting point. While it's great that women who want careers are able to do so now, it has unintended consequences such as the fact that there are so many living in situations like my own, dual income with both of us making decent salaries and no kids to consume all of that added income. This results in dramatically higher household income which in turn drives up housing prices due to the fact that most people buy as much house as they can afford out of a limited pool of housing. This results in a dual income being almost mandatory to get by in most popular areas. As neither of us ever wanted kids and my partner really enjoys her job this has worked out well for us, but if I did want kids I can definitely see the appeal of having one parent stay home to raise them.

My friend was a stay at home dad for the first few years after his son was born while his wife worked full time to bring home the bread. He quite liked it, he always had plenty to do and it was his first "work from home" experience prior to his current corporate job where he also works from home full time. He has commented that there was a great deal of stigma though, many view a man who doesn't work a real job while his wife supports him as being a lazy bum, even if he's busy raising the kid(s) and keeping the house from falling apart. Now he spends a good bit of his salary hiring people to do the things he used to do himself when he didn't have a real job.

[james_s]

Except the majority of LED lighting sold for home use contains shitty SMPS that (1) spew EMI and (2) are prone to blowing up long before the actual LED is anywhere near EOL. I'd love to see examples of high quality LED lighting that is properly designed not to create EMI and also not to blow up prematurely.

I have loads of examples. I replaced most of the CFLs in my house with Philips remote phosphor and Cree LED bulbs from 2010-2015 and the vast majority of those are still going. The Philips bulbs in my porch lights have run dusk till dawn 7 days a week since 2011 and still look like new. The EcoSmart ones in the lights on the side and back have done the same though they are a bit noisy RFI wise. I haven't noticed any interference from the Philips bulbs though, I'm a ham and have quite a bit of radio gear around, I've been frustrated by the hash from the switchmode power supplies that are in everything now but light bulbs have not been a big problem. The bulbs were expensive when I bought them, initially I was paying 40 bucks a pop but it was money well spent, they've more than paid for themselves by now.

[MK14]

I don't want to derail the thread here but if LED bulbs are too bright, wrong color, flicker, etc then you've bought the wrong bulbs. There are many good quality LED bulbs on the market that provide an excellent facsimile of an old fashioned tungsten lamp, and you can still get tungsten lamps for the niche applications they are really needed. Having not used one for general illumination in nearly 20 years I'm frankly always a little shocked to find that there are still people using them outside of special applications and nostalgia. They're as obsolete as oil lamps IMO, which are also still readily available for decorative and nostalgia uses just like tungsten lamps. There is no reason to use incandescent for illumination in a modern home or commercial building.

To avoid derailing the thread, I will keep it brief. I can believe there are better led bulbs out there now. In general (because if I, for example go into a shop, I've got no control over the leds they use), they can be too bright, wrong light colour, flicker (to some extent), and be annoying to my eyes.
Similarly, modern street led lights (UK), although usefully bright when you need it, can be annoying at times, too bright, painful to look at the lights themselves, flickery or something, which at least a bit annoys me, bit of a funny light colour. Etc.
tl;dr
Just because you are 100% happy with something. Doesn't mean it can be rolled out to everyone else in the world, and expect 100% of other people, to also be 100% happy with them. Sadly, life is not like that.

[EEVblog]

My friend was a stay at home dad for the first few years after his son was born while his wife worked full time to bring home the bread. He quite liked it, he always had plenty to do and it was his first "work from home" experience prior to his current corporate job where he also works from home full time. He has commented that there was a great deal of stigma though, many view a man who doesn't work a real job while his wife supports him as being a lazy bum, even if he's busy raising the kid(s) and keeping the house from falling apart. Now he spends a good bit of his salary hiring people to do the things he used to do himself when he didn't have a real job.

The plan with us was that I'd be the stay at home parent and Mrs EEVblog would go back to work. As she earned more than me at the time and had the "career" rising up the ladder, and I had my side kit businesses and consulting design stuff I could do from home. Made sense.
But when the blog really started to take off and earn more than her, it became a quasi "kid share" thing where she only worked a few days a week instead. As she didn't want to give up the career, and I didn't want to give up this new fangled Youtube thing but had the flexibility to mind the kids when needed. That's how it still is today.

[paulca]

https://www.change.org/p/institute-of-electrical-and-electronics-engineers-stop-allowing-master-slave-terminology-in-technical-papers-9f405a6c-5c4c-4f62-adf4-187cd24491d8?source_location=topic_page

There isn't an option to disagree, so it's stupid.

And (apparently) you can only comment if you sign the petition - talk about an echo chamber...

You could always go to his blog and troll him there.
https://medium.com/@metinte
Or his linked in etc.

[Zero999]

I don't want to derail the thread here but if LED bulbs are too bright, wrong color, flicker, etc then you've bought the wrong bulbs. There are many good quality LED bulbs on the market that provide an excellent facsimile of an old fashioned tungsten lamp, and you can still get tungsten lamps for the niche applications they are really needed. Having not used one for general illumination in nearly 20 years I'm frankly always a little shocked to find that there are still people using them outside of special applications and nostalgia. They're as obsolete as oil lamps IMO, which are also still readily available for decorative and nostalgia uses just like tungsten lamps. There is no reason to use incandescent for illumination in a modern home or commercial building.

To avoid derailing the thread, I will keep it brief. I can believe there are better led bulbs out there now. In general (because if I, for example go into a shop, I've got no control over the leds they use), they can be too bright, wrong light colour, flicker (to some extent), and be annoying to my eyes.
Similarly, modern street led lights (UK), although usefully bright when you need it, can be annoying at times, too bright, painful to look at the lights themselves, flickery or something, which at least a bit annoys me, bit of a funny light colour. Etc.
tl;dr
Just because you are 100% happy with something. Doesn't mean it can be rolled out to everyone else in the world, and expect 100% of other people, to also be 100% happy with them. Sadly, life is not like that.

It's still possible to get incandescent lamps. They're sold for use in ovens, where CFL and LED aren't feasible.

The reason for making incandescent harder to buy is because many people used to get them because they were cheaper to buy, than CFL and LED. Environmental issues aside, the total cost of ownership of LED and CFL is less, than incandesant, due to the power savings.

I've had mixed experiances with LED lamps. Most seem to last a long time, without any flicker. The worst ones have been those I purchased cheap off ebay, which tend to blow up fairly quickly, due to bad capacitors. The better ones are from a supermarkets, rather than online.

The regulators need to do something about the cheap crappy kind which flicker and don't meet their specifications.

[MK14]

It's still possible to get incandescent lamps. They're sold for use in ovens, where CFL and LED aren't feasible.

The reason for making incandescent harder to buy is because many people used to get them because they were cheaper to buy, than CFL and LED. Environmental issues aside, the total cost of ownership of LED and CFL is less, than incandesant, due to the power savings.

I've had mixed experiances with LED lamps. Most seem to last a long time, without any flicker. The worst ones have been those I purchased cheap off ebay, which tend to blow up fairly quickly, due to bad capacitors. The better ones are from a supermarkets, rather than online.

The regulators need to do something about the cheap crappy kind which flicker and don't meet their specifications.

Thanks.
I've got moderately expensive, Philips led lights, in the room I'm in. Around £4 each, for a pack of around 6, 100 watt equivalent. The light is reasonable. But does seem to be flickering. If I rapidly move my hand, it seems to get the characteristic strobing effect, of flicker. Doesn't seem particularly high frequency flicker, either. Suspect mains frequency. But I could be wrong.
I'd better stop now, as off-topic, in this thread.