'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[Syntax Error]

I don't think the Osprey is capable of being used for search and rescue. Isn't its downdraft far too strong it to be able to hover and haul up victims safely?

It's Lego so it can be 'repurposed' with blasters from an x wing or tie fighter. And why not equip it with swords from a pirate ship? All this play nice PC stuff is a total mind storm!

On the subject of helicopters, I'm waiting for a trending hipster to object to the US Military's use of Indian tribes as names for their helos. Apache, Cheyenne, Chinook, Comanche, Lakota... and not forgetting the  Black Hawk.

++

If you love LEGO, check out the builders gallery on the stud.io Bricklink website. There are some really amazing virtual Lego creations.
https://www.bricklink.com/v3/studio/gallery.page

[TimFox]

You see this from different sides of the political spectrum.  During my college days ("If you remember the sixties, you weren't part of them!"), there was a letter to the Minneapolis Tribune decrying the military's naming of missiles after pagan gods: Jupiter, Atlas, Mercury, etc.  We smart-aleck undergrads wrote back, asking "Would you prefer that our death-dealing weapons of mass destruction be named after John the Baptist, St. Luke, and the Blessed Virgin Mary?"

[coppice]

From the article:

While the set clearly depicts how a rescue version of the plane might look, the aircraft is only used by the military.

I don't think the Osprey is capable of being used for search and rescue. Isn't its downdraft far too strong it to be able to hover and haul up victims safely?

I don't see why it would be different than any other helicopter

I was told years ago that there is a limit to how big a helicopter you can use for rescue work, because of there extreme downdraft. The Osprey is huge.

[duckduck]

One computer product I just read about uses "Master" and "Minion". I thought that was a pretty good way of getting rid of the s-word while still being understood. If your goal is to mollify people who are offended by hearing or reading the word "slave", that seems like a not-too-bad way to do it.

[John B]

Let's change it to Sire and Minion, then all new documentation can be updated from the old bigoted M/S terminology to the new inclusive S/M terminology.

[MK14]

One computer product I just read about uses "Master" and "Minion". I thought that was a pretty good way of getting rid of the s-word while still being understood. If your goal is to mollify people who are offended by hearing or reading the word "slave", that seems like a not-too-bad way to do it.

That won't work out too well. because they both begin with the letter M.
So, in (minimalist/lazy), speak, you would be saying connect the M pin to the M pin, rather than connect the M pin to the S pin.

Let's change it to Sire and Minion, then all new documentation can be updated from the old bigoted M/S terminology to the new inclusive S/M terminology.

So, the definitions of M & S (Dare I say S & M    ), are reversed. Which is just asking for trouble/bugs/problems/issues etc.
I.e. It says connect the scope probe to the M pin. Is it old speak (which would be Master), or new speak, which would be Minion (Slave).

Also, as Dave has been trying to hint (apparently).
If we start changing things now, it will be a never ending circle, of please change this, please change that.
So the colour and all references to Black, may disappear or need to be changed.
Dark changed.
White changed.
Who starts in Chess, changed.
Battery (Wife beating, so needs to change).
Cell (replacement on battery, see above), no think again, as it would remind them of the Police cells.

It would be a never ending circle.

Darkening times ahead (Striked out, in assumption of that word being banned in the near future).

[langwadt]

One computer product I just read about uses "Master" and "Minion". I thought that was a pretty good way of getting rid of the s-word while still being understood. If your goal is to mollify people who are offended by hearing or reading the word "slave", that seems like a not-too-bad way to do it.

That won't work out too well. because they both begin with the letter M.
So, in (minimalist/lazy), speak, you would be saying connect the M pin to the M pin, rather than connect the M pin to the S pin.

Let's change it to Sire and Minion, then all new documentation can be updated from the old bigoted M/S terminology to the new inclusive S/M terminology.

So, the definitions of M & S (Dare I say S & M    ), are reversed. Which is just asking for trouble/bugs/problems/issues etc.
I.e. It says connect the scope probe to the M pin. Is it old speak (which would be Master), or new speak, which would be Minion (Slave).

Also, as Dave has been trying to hint (apparently).
If we start changing things now, it will be a never ending circle, of please change this, please change that.
So the colour and all references to Black, may disappear or need to be changed.
Dark changed.
White changed.
Who starts in Chess, changed.
Battery (Wife beating, so needs to change).
Cell (replacement on battery, see above), no think again, as it would remind them of the Police cells.

It would be a never ending circle.

Darkening times ahead (Striked out, in assumption of that word being banned in the near future).

thing have changed from end racism to; every system, social norm, value, method ever used by a white person is racist by  association and must all be destroyed

[maginnovision]

Type O Negative - Bloody Kisses - "Kill all the white people". This is an album I listened to a lot during high school. Soon it'll be their anthem(At least it'll be some decent music to go with the decline).

[lukego]

I'm only a casual reader of this forum but boy does this thread give me bad vibes.

Like Yoda said:
Support or support not, there is no 1500+ message anti-"SJW" culture war tirade lead by moderators and administrators.

[maginnovision]

This isn't a war, it's a defense of logic.

[0culus]

I'm only a casual reader of this forum but boy does this thread give me bad vibes.

Like Yoda said:
Support or support not, there is no 1500+ message anti-"SJW" culture war tirade lead by moderators and administrators.

Why does it give you bad vibes? How about explaining your position instead of posting snark?

[John B]

But lukego said there's no culture war tirade lead by mods and admins, so you could interpret that message in many ways.

[lukego]

Why does it give you bad vibes? How about explaining your position instead of posting snark?

So to me it's like going to a party where everybody is mingling and having a good time, then someone asks "hey did you like Lord of the Rings?" Someone says yes, someone says no, but then the host and his mates launch into an hour-long prepared speech about how Peter Jackson fundamentally misunderstood the books and anybody who likes the films is provably a philistine.

Then the next time there's a party the only people who turn up are the ones who love ragging on Peter Jackson, plus a couple of idiots like me who are slow to react to social cues and need to be vanquished a second time.

[Nominal Animal]

Lukego, you make it sound like this was about opinions.

That's a really hurtful mischaracterisation.  This is about logic, and the futility of this movement.

It is more like going to a party, where a bunch of political activists are demanding mathematics to be changed so that pi = 4, and having a group of engineers and scientists there getting bewildered about the stupidity, futility, and utter madness at that.

And then you get there, and complain to the engineers and scientists that they're disrupting the party, that they should just accept the new status quo and stop making everyone else uncomfortable.

[Simon]

Why does it give you bad vibes? How about explaining your position instead of posting snark?

So to me it's like going to a party where everybody is mingling and having a good time, then someone asks "hey did you like Lord of the Rings?" Someone says yes, someone says no, but then the host and his mates launch into an hour-long prepared speech about how Peter Jackson fundamentally misunderstood the books and anybody who likes the films is provably a philistine.

Then the next time there's a party the only people who turn up are the ones who love ragging on Peter Jackson, plus a couple of idiots like me who are slow to react to social cues and need to be vanquished a second time.

People on here are free to disagree with moderators and admin, they won't be chastised but we will make our personal arguments. I'm not here as a moderator to ensure that there is an equal balance of liker's and haters, that's called net neutrality according to the BBC, we don't do that, we just ensure it's civil. It just so happens that most engineers are nice people and have a brain and use it to think for themselves and don't take kindly to some upstarts that have nothing to do with their industry telling them how to do their job's and digging up "hidden bias" according to them and their narrow minded interpretation of the world.

[daqq]

Why does it give you bad vibes? How about explaining your position instead of posting snark?

So to me it's like going to a party where everybody is mingling and having a good time, then someone asks "hey did you like Lord of the Rings?" Someone says yes, someone says no, but then the host and his mates launch into an hour-long prepared speech about how Peter Jackson fundamentally misunderstood the books and anybody who likes the films is provably a philistine.

Then the next time there's a party the only people who turn up are the ones who love ragging on Peter Jackson, plus a couple of idiots like me who are slow to react to social cues and need to be vanquished a second time.

To correct your analogy: The other group is attempting to fine people for not liking the movies, actively applying pressure on the first group to like the movies, or at least pretend to, and calling people nazis for not liking the movie. Basically they are trying to make not liking the movies an unthinkable act and that people who do not like the movies should be ostracized from society and spat at.

Also, the discussion is not about personal tastes, there are objective reasons and arguments involved. It would be more along the lines of discussing the teaching of a Flat Earth.

[EEVblog]

I'm only a casual reader of this forum but boy does this thread give me bad vibes.
Like Yoda said:
Support or support not, there is no 1500+ message anti-"SJW" culture war tirade lead by moderators and administrators.

A natural result of what happens when people try to push stuff in our industry that affects us, every aspect of it gets discussed in a discussion forum.
We are engineers here. And engineers are blunt, don't like bullshit, and will call things out as they see it.
As for "lead by moderators and administrators", Simon covered that perfectly.

[lukego]

A natural result of what happens when people try to push stuff in our industry that affects us, every aspect of it gets discussed in a discussion forum.
We are engineers here. And engineers are blunt, don't like bullshit, and will call things out as they see it.

And anyone who thinks differently than you and your mates isn't an engineer, really. Lacks the capacity for logic. Got it.

[EEVblog]

A natural result of what happens when people try to push stuff in our industry that affects us, every aspect of it gets discussed in a discussion forum.
We are engineers here. And engineers are blunt, don't like bullshit, and will call things out as they see it.

And anyone who thinks differently than you and your mates isn't an engineer, really. Lacks the capacity for logic. Got it.

Wow, reaching much?
I should have used the word "typically", as in #NotAll
I thought that would have been obvious.

If any engineer wants to think there is value in this stuff then they are welcome to that opinion and to defend it. Just don't be surprised when the majority of engineers don't see any value in it and call your proposal silly.
It's not just here, ask this anywhere (apart from Twitter) and you'll end up with a locked thread like on Hackaday because so many people think it's silly, and that hurts the feelings of those proposing it.

[paulca]

I don't see why it would be different than any other helicopter

Because it's not a helicopter.  It's dangerous.  The chances of surviving an engine out whether hovering or flying is pretty low.

Helicopters "fly" in that the rotors are rotating wings generating lift, even without an engine, though the blade speed needs to be managed a Helicopter can glide for as long as it has height to do so and land gently at the end.  The props on the Osprey are just props, they keep the thing up by displacing air creating thrust.  Without that thrust it's a almost a dead weight.

Same reason why quad/hex/octo copter drones are a dumb idea for anything beyond a bit of photography or a hobby.  They have a hideous failure profile.

[Zero999]

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/lady-antebellum-lady-a-country-blues-1013919/

Lady Antebellum changes name to Lady A which was already taken by a blues artist. Lady antebellum is an all white group and Lady A is a single black woman. Literally, trying to look good, caused harm to a person they would identify as a member of the group they're trying not to harm.

“I’m not about to stop using my name. For them to not even reach out is pure privilege” — Anita White, known professionally as Lady A

The moral of the story is, it's often impossible to not to offend someone.

Why does it give you bad vibes? How about explaining your position instead of posting snark?

So to me it's like going to a party where everybody is mingling and having a good time, then someone asks "hey did you like Lord of the Rings?" Someone says yes, someone says no, but then the host and his mates launch into an hour-long prepared speech about how Peter Jackson fundamentally misunderstood the books and anybody who likes the films is provably a philistine.

Then the next time there's a party the only people who turn up are the ones who love ragging on Peter Jackson, plus a couple of idiots like me who are slow to react to social cues and need to be vanquished a second time.

Yes, unfortunately there are many bad vibes in this thread.

Sorry, I can't identify with your Lord of the Rings analogy, as I've never read the book/watched the film.

Exactly what is your position on the subject here and why? You haven't explicitly stated it.

To summarise:
A small minority think it's a good idea to change the words master/slave, because they find them offensive.

Most people disagree with this proposition, as they don't find the words master & slave are offensive. They think it depends on the context and that changing them would require a lot of effort, for no good reason.

The reason for the bad vibes is some large organisations are making changes which will make peoples lives harder, when only a small minority support them.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Can I suggest that we all agree that it's the seemingly invisible, insidious movement that instigated the M/S discussion in the first place is the thing that should receive all our collective venom?

[bd139]

Yes.

[Simon]

Can I suggest that we all agree that it's the seemingly invisible, insidious movement that instigated the M/S discussion in the first place is the thing that should receive all our collective venom?

In that case it would go horribly political fast and get very nasty.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Can I suggest that we all agree that it's the seemingly invisible, insidious movement that instigated the M/S discussion in the first place is the thing that should receive all our collective venom?

In that case it would go horribly political fast and get very nasty.

I didn't say they should do it here.

nonononononononono