'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[Zero999]

I love how reactionary Conservatives virtue signal by crying about how other people are virtue signalling. It's hilarious.

Anyway, point of my two links I posted on this topic today is it looks like despite the collective tantrum and echo chambering we are seeing in here from a handful of dedicated reactionaries and a couple of impressionable followers, it's gaining momentum in the real world.

Oh. And I'm not really concerned by people changing my SPI naming convention in any designs I do.... Chances are, if a couple of letters in a simple and standard serial comms convention are enough to throw you off your game that you can't work without changing it, well, there'll be other things that need rework in your "finished" job, and I'll change it back again while I'm fixing those mistakes anyway.

This is no echo chamber. Others who share your view have posted here. It's just the majority on this forum, including those from countries with mostly non-white populations and I dare say most engineers, dissagree with you.

Stop making unfounded presumptions. Like many others here, I'm no conservative. I agree with gay marriage, equal rights for minorities and that governments should be tough on those who dodge tax. I support strict gun laws, universal healtcare and good education for all.

I'm against the word police, like you. It's not about left vs right, but free vs censorship.

Dude. How do I soar?

PM me.

What do you mean?

If you want to discuss this with me, do so on the forum, rather than PM.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I love how reactionary Conservatives virtue signal by crying about how other people are virtue signalling. It's hilarious.

Anyway, point of my two links I posted on this topic today is it looks like despite the collective tantrum and echo chambering we are seeing in here from a handful of dedicated reactionaries and a couple of impressionable followers, it's gaining momentum in the real world.

Oh. And I'm not really concerned by people changing my SPI naming convention in any designs I do.... Chances are, if a couple of letters in a simple and standard serial comms convention are enough to throw you off your game that you can't work without changing it, well, there'll be other things that need rework in your "finished" job, and I'll change it back again while I'm fixing those mistakes anyway.

This is no echo chamber. Others who share your view have posted here. It's just the majority on this forum, including those from countries with mostly non-white populations and I dare say most engineers, dissagree with you.

Stop making unfounded presumptions. Like many others here, I'm no conservative. I agree with gay marriage, equal rights for minorities and that governments should be tough on those who dodge tax. I support strict gun laws, universal healtcare and good education for all.

I'm against the word police, like you. It's not about left vs right, but free vs censorship.

Dude. How do I soar?

PM me.

What do you mean?

If you want to discuss this with me, do so on the forum, rather than PM.

OK.
 

[EEVblog]

A work colleague got me to do a questionnaire that I think was on the Guardian website. He was amazed when I scored just left of the middle, it was some 4 quadrant thing with different figures of political past for each.

That sounds like the political compass test I'm talking about.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to have become the defacto standard.

[EEVblog]

So does this mean that we can no longer have black wires, and red and *black* playing cards? What about black chess pieces? Will we be allowed to say that there are stars in a black sky? Will "black level" need to be removed from TV specs? Where does this end? 

It doesn't end.
Yes, chess is racist apparently. The "debate" made our national TV morning show here in Australia.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/abc-is-chess-racist-debate-garry-kasparov-slams-broadcaster/news-story/bf497773690718a9cfca1b2746e3e7b5

[Halcyon]

The world is getting stupid, beyond stupid, simply ignorant and unintelligent.

Who wants to go in and buy part share in an island somewhere? The intelligent and those who can contribute meaningfully to a society need only apply. ;-)

[Ed.Kloonk]

The world is getting stupid, beyond stupid, simply ignorant and unintelligent.

Who wants to go in and buy part share in an island somewhere? The intelligent and those who can contribute meaningfully to a society need only apply. ;-)

Private islands are pretty dicey. For the record, Ed Kloonk didn't kill himself.

[maginnovision]

A work colleague got me to do a questionnaire that I think was on the Guardian website. He was amazed when I scored just left of the middle, it was some 4 quadrant thing with different figures of political past for each.

That sounds like the political compass test I'm talking about.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to have become the defacto standard.

I can't honestly agree with a poll when it doesn't have an I don't care option. That said I scored 2.38/-2.56.

[John B]

In regards to this article:

https://cdm.link/2020/06/lets-dump-master-slave-terms/

The body of the article is essentially not worth acknowledging, but the end of the article references a tweet from the creator of Reaper saying that the June 15th release version of reaper would remove references to master/slave.

Well, it's July now, and he didn't do exactly that. There is now a "black lives matter" reference in the about/credits, which is rather out of place to see in the program, but it's in the same vein as someone dedicating the program to god. It's just a personal statement by the author.

One menu that I can find has changed to "lead/follow" terminology, but the word master is still present everywhere in the program. Perhaps he realised that promising to remove the word master from a DAW was a very, very stupid thing to promise. He's essentially made a giant rod for his own back.

[Ed.Kloonk]

In regards to this article:

https://cdm.link/2020/06/lets-dump-master-slave-terms/

The body of the article is essentially not worth acknowledging, but the end of the article references a tweet from the creator of Reaper saying that the June 15th release version of reaper would remove references to master/slave.

Well, it's July now, and he didn't do exactly that. There is now a "black lives matter" reference in the about/credits, which is rather out of place to see in the program, but it's in the same vein as someone dedicating the program to god. It's just a personal statement by the author.

One menu that I can find has changed to "lead/follow" terminology, but the word master is still present everywhere in the program. Perhaps he realised that promising to remove the word master from a DAW was a very, very stupid thing to promise. He's essentially made a giant rod for his own back.

Oh, wow I hadn't thought about that. Alsa/PulseAudio. Now there will be even more ways for sound to be broken on Linux.

[John B]

To be specific, here is the exact response:

The next release (today!) will have Lead/Follow for groups, other terms renamed

So, technically he promised one menu. But if you are operating under the assumption that master is somehow a racially loaded term, why would you only change things in one menu? If you are operating under consistent principles, they all have to go.

[Ed.Kloonk]

To be specific, here is the exact response:

The next release (today!) will have Lead/Follow for groups, other terms renamed

So, technically he promised one menu. But if you are operating under the assumption that master is somehow a racially loaded term, why would you only change things in one menu? If you are operating under consistent principles, they all have to go.

From a software standpoint, it actually should in theory we quite simple to change terms. Mature software packages that have vast international support usually have a separate file to define every message and every button label in every language.

[SilverSolder]

A work colleague got me to do a questionnaire that I think was on the Guardian website. He was amazed when I scored just left of the middle, it was some 4 quadrant thing with different figures of political past for each.

That sounds like the political compass test I'm talking about.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to have become the defacto standard.

I can't honestly agree with a poll when it doesn't have an I don't care option. That said I scored 2.38/-2.56.

It is probably intentional, to "force you off the fence" - which side would you jump to?

[MK14]

So does this mean that we can no longer have black wires, and red and *black* playing cards? What about black chess pieces? Will we be allowed to say that there are stars in a black sky? Will "black level" need to be removed from TV specs? Where does this end? 

It doesn't end.
Yes, chess is racist apparently. The "debate" made our national TV morning show here in Australia.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/abc-is-chess-racist-debate-garry-kasparov-slams-broadcaster/news-story/bf497773690718a9cfca1b2746e3e7b5

They are talking complete and utter nonsense. Because they are putting their own (incorrect) interpretation, on what the white and black colours mean. I.e. they are creating the racism in a silly way.
The Black and White, chess pieces, at least as regards the game and playing it. Has got nothing to do with human beings, black/white or any other colour. If anything, it has got to do with the colour of the army units (e.g. tanks in modern terms) and/or their uniforms.

I.e. Castles (Rooks) PAINTED black/white or whatever, or made out of black/white bricks.
Knights are men wearing armour on horses.
It is NOT black men vs white men. Fact! (i.e. any coloured humans, wearing Black or White army, uniform colour).
 
Maybe they think clouds are racist (as they are usually white), the sun is racist because it only shines white/yellow.
The Moon is racist and we should send men to repaint it black.
All teeth are racist, as every other tooth should be black.

Anyway, since chess has both White and Black pieces, is that not fair enough ?
Snooker is highly racist, because the Black ball is the most important (high scoring one). Maybe that is unfair on white people ?   

I think I will just have to blacklist  this thread. 
Pencils are racist to white people, because they are nearly always write in black/grey.

White lights are racist, because they always light up in white. Let's make bulbs fairer to black people, which give out useful black light at night. It would reduce the electricity consumption to zero, so 'greens' would be happy, as well.

tl;dr
If this carries on, they will make silly interpretations of innocent things, and it can be problematic.
The 'Dim' command in the Basic language will be banned, because it is rude about dim witted people.
Linux/Unix will be banned because of its 'kill' command.
We need to find a 'white' oil, version of engine oil. Because the current 'black' engine oil, is too racist.

Worldwide ban on milk, because it is white, which is totally racist and unfair.

[Ed.Kloonk]

A work colleague got me to do a questionnaire that I think was on the Guardian website. He was amazed when I scored just left of the middle, it was some 4 quadrant thing with different figures of political past for each.

That sounds like the political compass test I'm talking about.
https://www.politicalcompass.org/

I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to have become the defacto standard.

I can't honestly agree with a poll when it doesn't have an I don't care option. That said I scored 2.38/-2.56.

It is probably intentional, to "force you off the fence" - which side would you jump to?

Yes. These things are bogus.

[John B]

Worldwide ban on milk, because it is white, which is totally racist and unfair.

Oh you sweet summer child.

Milk has been racist for years.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/milk-white-supremacy-racism_n_5bffad35e4b0864f4f6a3e28?ri18n=true

[MK14]

Worldwide ban on milk, because it is white, which is totally racist and unfair.

Oh you sweet summer child.

Milk has been racist for years.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/milk-white-supremacy-racism_n_5bffad35e4b0864f4f6a3e28?ri18n=true

It was suppose to be a joke.
The thing is, things are naturally various colours. Which is something we all should just be accepting, and not trying to call it racial names. Such as Black/White Chess pieces. They are just those colours for convenience and easy manufacture.
This racial thing seems to be all in the minds of those making up this nonsense.

[maginnovision]

Worldwide ban on milk, because it is white, which is totally racist and unfair.

Oh you sweet summer child.

Milk has been racist for years.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/milk-white-supremacy-racism_n_5bffad35e4b0864f4f6a3e28?ri18n=true

It was suppose to be a joke.
The thing is, things are naturally various colours. Which is something we all should just be accepting, and not trying to call it racial names. Such as Black/White Chess pieces. They are just those colours for convenience and easy manufacture.
This racial thing seems to be all in the minds of those making up this nonsense.

That's the point. The racists are inside the house!

[nuclearcat]

I think techies, (may i say "we"?) need to make statement, to outlaw politics in technical matters.
If decision makers in industry think English is so shitty and need adjustments, don't stop, just rewrite the freaking labels, notation, whatever in Chinese, Russian, Esperanto, and stop changing them.
And i believe we need to establish "quid pro quo moves". Like if anyone who believes that a person (or worse - his friends) can be harassed, fired, or bullied for speaking up - should themselves be bullied for similar matters. Let them taste their own medicine.
Don't sit still. Maybe then we can have adult conversation about all this madness.

[EEVblog]

So does this mean that we can no longer have black wires, and red and *black* playing cards? What about black chess pieces? Will we be allowed to say that there are stars in a black sky? Will "black level" need to be removed from TV specs? Where does this end? 

It doesn't end.
Yes, chess is racist apparently. The "debate" made our national TV morning show here in Australia.
https://www.news.com.au/sport/more-sports/abc-is-chess-racist-debate-garry-kasparov-slams-broadcaster/news-story/bf497773690718a9cfca1b2746e3e7b5

They are talking complete and utter nonsense. Because they are putting their own (incorrect) interpretation, on what the white and black colours mean. I.e. they are creating the racism in a silly way.

And people behind this wonder why people are kicking up such a fuss about this and not simply complying.
I hate racists, and all I see from these people pushing this stuff is racism and the fueling of it.
This is why I am so adamant about resisting this sort of stuff, because it is childish, racist, and for the hundredth time, there is no end to it.

[EEVblog]

Don't sit still. Maybe then we can have adult conversation about all this madness.

These people do not want conversation or rational or nuanced discussion, they want full and unquestioned compliance with their fantasy demands.
Unfortunately, at the moment, the "cancel culture" built up around this forces compliance from large organisations who don't want to be seen to be offending anyone. And those glorious woke points incentivise penalising employees and even customers who dare speak up that this is just crazy.

[magic]

If decision makers in industry think English is so shitty and need adjustments, don't stop, just rewrite the freaking labels, notation, whatever in Chinese, Russian, Esperanto, and stop changing them.

Do you realize that other languages are even shittier and need more adjustment?
Do you know there were already ideas suggested by Americans to make Spanish fully gender neutral, for example?

I humbly propose to keep Western politics contained in the West, where they duly belong

And there is no "we". The "we" fallacy is exactly why Westerners go along with any bullshit they see on TV/Twitter - all of it is designed to make them feel like "everybody" is already with "us" and they just keep falling for it again and again. They yield to peer pressure, they underestimate the amount of resistance they will meet, they remain ignorant of problems until it's too late. This applies about equally to all the "classic liberals", "libertarians", "neoliberals", "fascists", you name it. It's all a popularity contest and intimidation game.

They have no problems saying "look, everybody is with us, join us or you will be the weird one left out" in one sentence only to say "look, everybody is against us, join us or the world will collapse" in the next one.

How is a bunch of blue checkmarks campaigning for language changes a big deal if the silent majority is clearly against? Why not just ignore them? Why do they keep winning?
How is it a problem that they stir up racism if racism is illogical and nobody intelligent could possibly believe it?
If there is so many idiots who believe illogical things, why even bother with that "popular democracy" thing, when it clearly should be some brand of merito-authoritarianism instead?
 

The left is doomed to eat their own.

[PlainName]

if the silent majority is clearly against

How do you know they're against if they're silent?

[james_s]

if the silent majority is clearly against

How do you know they're against if they're silent?

You don't, however most people who are for this sort of thing are not the least bit shy about it. Many who are against it are quiet because they've seen the way those who are for it bully anyone who dissents. I suspect in many cases the vast majority are actually completely unaware that there's even a debate, or don't give a rat's ass because it isn't something that affects them.

[nuclearcat]

Don't sit still. Maybe then we can have adult conversation about all this madness.

These people do not want conversation or rational or nuanced discussion, they want full and unquestioned compliance with their fantasy demands.
Unfortunately, at the moment, the "cancel culture" built up around this forces compliance from large organisations who don't want to be seen to be offending anyone. And those glorious woke points incentivise penalising employees and even customers who dare speak up that this is just crazy.

That can be countered by slightly less "cancellation" force with different polarity, if they bend over too much and implement any sort of bullshit.
Organizations might keep promising, make empty statements, but as soon as they really start to promote bullshit, i will not buy their products/renew subscriptions, if i have alternatives.
The most important thing is not to overdo it, otherwise it will turn into a self-oscillating process and might even resonate, destroying industry further.
This is typical case of "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority" by Taleb, and as he suggest solution is to decentralize.
Means we dont need one huge organization, but we need several of them, like as example - opensource certification bodies, where most of them cooperate, each has their own audience with suitable policies. We will not suffer then from lack of choice, when one of them go nuts and start to play politics, instead of doing their job.
Good example is OpenSSL, when they started to screw up, immediately appeared LibreSSL, BoringSSL. I guess same have to be applied to OSHW now.

[EEVblog]

You don't, however most people who are for this sort of thing are not the least bit shy about it. Many who are against it are quiet because they've seen the way those who are for it bully anyone who dissents.

I tweeted about this topic when it first surfaced back in 2018 I think it was. Quite a popular tweet IIRC, got likes of likes and comments like "this is stupid" etc.
Now that old tweet has recently been bought up again as part of the latest BLM fueled outrage mob on Twitter by people who are out to "cancel" me, or otherwise prove that I'm "racist" etc. They are going through all my old tweets for an skerrick of ammunition they can use against me.
So yeah I don't blame anyone for keeping their head low on this one, especially if they are in a position at a woke company (now or in the future) etc, and could possible lose their job.

But even in the recent climate, Hackaday still got such a backlash on this that they had to lock the comments thread.