'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[Simon]

It's a question of where you stand, if your on the extreme left you just call everyone right wing because we have lost a sense of diversity and nuance. People on the one hand think I am left wing when I defends peoples rights and right wing when I want to see accountability in the general population and law enforcement. I am neither but it's all gone black/white these days - oops who did I just offend there......

Standing in the middle of the road is very dangerous;
you get knocked down by the traffic from both sides.
-- Margaret Thatcher

Yes because the political system in the UK is build around polarization of just two opposites that are heavily partisan. You are either one or the other with no debate in the middle, those that want to debate effectively just get run over, as politicians they will not be polarized enough to sway the masses of the left or right only the sentient few in the middle and as a voter because of the former you are wasting your time. The last count I went to I saw a much increased amount of spoiled ballots, mine will be joining them too next time. The local MP won't even come to hustings because he knows he has it in the bag and if only the poor sods that vote for him looked at his voting record.

[paulca]

Slovakia

Talking of which.
That is where (Slav / Slovakia) the word SLAVE, comes from.
Also, they were (I believe), WHITE.

Ironically, it was actually 'people of colour' or whatever neutral word(s) I should be using. That enslaved them.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

SJWs dealing with that one:

[daqq]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. It just seems to me that way.

Slovakia

Talking of which.
That is where (Slav / Slovakia) the word SLAVE, comes from.
Also, they were (I believe), WHITE.

Ironically, it was actually 'people of colour' or whatever neutral word(s) I should be using. That enslaved them.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

Yup, I know.

Sadly, if you look at history, the summary is that most every nationality, ethnicity and race has been, at some point, in some proportion on both the shitty end and the other end of that stick. Note that I am not endorsing the abhorrent concept of slavery, nor trying to downplay the suffering of any individuals/groups involved.

Sadly, even in this day slavery is, in varying forms sadly alive and well, although no longer state endorsed (unofficial exceptions apply, see Qatar).

[Simon]

Slovakia

Talking of which.
That is where (Slav / Slovakia) the word SLAVE, comes from.
Also, they were (I believe), WHITE.

Ironically, it was actually 'people of colour' or whatever neutral word(s) I should be using. That enslaved them.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

wow how did you dig that up, looks like something out of the nineties they forgot about.

[Simon]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. It just seems to me that way.

Slovakia

Talking of which.
That is where (Slav / Slovakia) the word SLAVE, comes from.
Also, they were (I believe), WHITE.

Ironically, it was actually 'people of colour' or whatever neutral word(s) I should be using. That enslaved them.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

Yup, I know.

Sadly, if you look at history, the summary is that most every nationality, ethnicity and race has been, at some point, in some proportion on both the shitty end and the other end of that stick. Note that I am not endorsing the abhorrent concept of slavery, nor trying to downplay the suffering of any individuals/groups involved.

Sadly, even in this day slavery is, in varying forms sadly alive and well, although no longer state endorsed (unofficial exceptions apply, see Qatar).

It's OK, we are normal here, you don't need to make a speech about how you do not condone the facts that you are talking about, that's what you have to do when talking to SJW's

[themadhippy]

The local MP won't even come to hustings because he knows he has it in the bag and if only the poor sods that vote for him looked at his voting record.

Toe the party line or risk expulsion,regardless of what the voting majority there supposedly working for want,around here its HS2,our local mp wanders around the constituency saying  hs2 bad mmkay,there parliamentary  voting record  tells a different story
Its about time manifesto promises becomes a legally binding contract,maybe include  each candidates  parliamentary voting record on there vote for me leaflets for good measure

[paulca]

What were we talking about again?

[Simon]

I'm sure someone will remember soon.

[MK14]

Slovakia

Talking of which.
That is where (Slav / Slovakia) the word SLAVE, comes from.
Also, they were (I believe), WHITE.

Ironically, it was actually 'people of colour' or whatever neutral word(s) I should be using. That enslaved them.

Source:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter1.shtml

wow how did you dig that up, looks like something out of the nineties they forgot about.

As funny as the following might sound, it is NOT a joke. I think it would really happen.
If I posted part of it on the BBC website (where user comments are allowed), it could get moderated and/or banned. On racial grounds.
Also, they might not be able to publish things like that, nowadays.

I already knew (the gist) about 'Slav's', and googled it to get a reference. The BBC looked like a nice reliable source.

The origins of many innocent/innocuous sounding words. Can be pretty terrible/horrible, if you bother to look at how the word was originally created.

E.g. February has so few days in it. Because past Roman emperors 'stole' the days from it, so their own months could get 30/31 days in it.
E.g. August (Augustus Caesar), which actually was originally suppose to be called 'Sextilis' / 6 or 6th.
But that is a story for another day.

[paulca]

Would be interesting to share a link on the comments section.  With a suitable (out of context) appetiser quote... just like they do.

[MK14]

Would be interesting to share a link on the comments section.  With a suitable (out of context) appetiser quote... just like they do.

I DON'T know what you are talking about.
Actually yes, I ........   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Do,_I_Do,_I_Do,_I_Do,_I_Do

[TimFox]

All I ask is that any replacement technical terms to satisfy the current fashions should be as specific to the technical meaning as were the discarded words that we shove down the memory hole.  I haven’t seen any good replacements for master/slave yet—perhaps we need totally new words instead of repurposed existing words?

[Simon]

E.g. February has so few days in it. Because past Roman emperors 'stole' the days from it, so their own months could get 30/31 days in it.
E.g. August (Augustus Caesar), which actually was originally suppose to be called 'Sextilis' / 6 or 6th.
But that is a story for another day.

Oh, pray do tell. What baffles me is that when you study a language beyond learning it you learn the origins of words and usually they had a reason to be created and the word is linked to the thing in history that created it. I thought lefty loonies all went to uni, obviously they ones that did did media studies not linguistics or the few that did linguistics are too scared to speak up.

As I mentioned several 10's of pages ago, the word vagina comes from Latin and means scabbard, the thing you put your sword in if you are a roman soldier. I'm sure you can well imagine what saucy humor between roman soldiers that word came from and today it is part of technical medical language.

[MK14]

I don't know what the word "Conservative" means today

lying through your teeth,lining your pockets with no regard for  others  and passing the blame onto some else seems to be the uk meaning

Actually, some of the tricks are quite clever.

If I'm ever asked to change all Master/Slave references somewhere, I can say ..
"No problem, it will be done by 2027**".  ** = See thread about Huawei removal date by UK Gov.

Then do nothing, and hope (in all likelihood) that by 2027, everyone will have forgotten about it, so no action needed.

[Simon]

All I ask is that any replacement technical terms to satisfy the current fashions should be as specific to the technical meaning as were the discarded words that we shove down the memory hole.  I haven’t seen any good replacements for master/slave yet—perhaps we need totally new words instead of repurposed existing words?

This is what I said many pages back. Each word has a specific meaning and master / slave happen to be the precise ones needed to accurately describe the functions. The only way as you say is to actually invent a new word because all the others have their own nuanced meaning. I don't know..... what's the greek or latin for gagged and beaten by SJW's? I'm sure we can pull a poncy term or two out of that to keep them happy.

[james_s]

This is no echo chamber. Others who share your view have posted here. It's just the majority on this forum, including those from countries with mostly non-white populations and I dare say most engineers, dissagree with you.

Stop making unfounded presumptions. Like many others here, I'm no conservative. I agree with gay marriage, equal rights for minorities and that governments should be tough on those who dodge tax. I support strict gun laws, universal healtcare and good education for all.

I'm against the word police, like you. It's not about left vs right, but free vs censorship.

Likewise I'm no conservative, for most of my life I self identified as a liberal and all things considered I'm still markedly left of center. The fact that I'm not far fringe leftist loony and refuse to yield to the incessant push of fake solutions and the ridiculous euphemism treadmill created by all the useful idiots trying to fix problems by banning words does not make me a conservative. It's only the fact that the far left is making so much noise lately that forces me to go on the defense and pushes me a bit toward the right who are at this moment not attacking me, but I know full well that if they come into power I'll be pushed back the other way.

Bottom line is I'm against authoritarianism, whether from the right or the left. You do you, live your own life as you see fit and leave me alone to live mine.

[james_s]

This is what I said many pages back. Each word has a specific meaning and master / slave happen to be the precise ones needed to accurately describe the functions. The only way as you say is to actually invent a new word because all the others have their own nuanced meaning. I don't know..... what's the greek or latin for gagged and beaten by SJW's? I'm sure we can pull a poncy term or two out of that to keep them happy.

But no matter what you call it, it's still going to be a euphemism for master/slave, because the master/slave relationship accurately describes the relationship between inanimate objects under discussion. I have a really difficult time understanding how anyone cannot see this, and what they think will be solved by changing what we call something. I feel like the people who want to do that live in some alternate reality because what they're pushing to do appears to be so utterly irrational and makes absolutely no sense to me.

[MK14]

E.g. February has so few days in it. Because past Roman emperors 'stole' the days from it, so their own months could get 30/31 days in it.
E.g. August (Augustus Caesar), which actually was originally suppose to be called 'Sextilis' / 6 or 6th.
But that is a story for another day.

Oh, pray do tell.

I've forgotten the source, but it might come back.

But, there were suppose to be 10 months (which would be really sensible, mathematically speaking).
Hence Oct = 8th = October
Dec = 10th = December.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September

September (from Latin septem, "seven") was originally the seventh of ten months in the oldest known Roman calendar, the calendar of Romulus c. 750 BC

From https://www.dictionary.com/e/s/offensive-words-hiding-plain-sight/#1

hysterical actually comes from the word 'womb' 

hysterical comes from the Greek word for "womb." It was once believed that hysteria was a disorder only suffered by women—and caused by disturbances in the uterus.

'sold down the river', completely innocent, right ?, right ... ?
No..
Slavery ..

synonymous with betrayal. But you should avoid using it: it probably originated as an allusion to selling enslaved people and transporting them down the Mississippi River. The phrase is recorded in the 1800s.

Surely 'fuzzy-wuzzy' is ok, not racist or anything.
Think again..

Fuzzy-wuzzy was a racist term for Black people (as from Africa, Australia, or Papua New Guinea), stereotyped for their hair texture. The term was used by British soldiers in the 1800s. The offensive term then made its way into a nursery rhyme and a Rudyard Kipling poem.

'uppity', is ok, surely ?
No.

Uppity means "haughty" and "snobbish"—putting on airs, being stuck up. But it has a very racist past, used especially to disparage Black people as "not remembering their place as inferior." Given this explicitly racist past, it's wise to put down uppity.

[themadhippy]

Surely 'fuzzy-wuzzy' is ok, not racist or anything.

you never watched dads army then

[MK14]

Surely 'fuzzy-wuzzy' is ok, not racist or anything.

you never watched dads army then

I did.
Author Lowe's (Captain Mainwaring) treatment of Pike, would probably NOT be considered politically correct, these days.

I meant, the Led is flashing in a 'fuzzy-wuzzy'/intermittent kind of way, sort of expression.

[james_s]

The hyper sensitive rabid outrage would be multiplied by several orders of magnitude if posted on twitter. And that's not an exaggeration. And I have always considered myself quite far left, until the Overton window shifted so far left it fell off a communist cliff. I'm still standing where I always have, but I need binoculars to see the new age crazy town.

That mirrors my thoughts exactly. I'm about as liberal as I've ever been, but I hesitate to call myself "liberal" anymore because it has become associated with what I would tend to call far leftist authoritarianism. It's a really bizarre thing that is going on lately, we have a positive feedback loop going on social media and I see nothing to slow it down. It may just rev higher and higher until it finally flies to pieces.

At any rate I don't particularly care what your personal political views are, I enjoy the videos and the forum and the relative lack of politics is refreshing. It seems like these days politics get thrust into absolutely everything and just saying "look I want to talk about xyz here, not about this or that cause" sparks some kind of outrage because not expressing an opinion on a matter or event is equated to supporting whatever is opposite of that cause. It's like the whole world has gone completely insane and simply disagreeing about something is a capital crime.

[SilverSolder]

This is no echo chamber. Others who share your view have posted here. It's just the majority on this forum, including those from countries with mostly non-white populations and I dare say most engineers, dissagree with you.

Stop making unfounded presumptions. Like many others here, I'm no conservative. I agree with gay marriage, equal rights for minorities and that governments should be tough on those who dodge tax. I support strict gun laws, universal healtcare and good education for all.

I'm against the word police, like you. It's not about left vs right, but free vs censorship.

Likewise I'm no conservative, for most of my life I self identified as a liberal and all things considered I'm still markedly left of center. The fact that I'm not far fringe leftist loony and refuse to yield to the incessant push of fake solutions and the ridiculous euphemism treadmill created by all the useful idiots trying to fix problems by banning words does not make me a conservative. It's only the fact that the far left is making so much noise lately that forces me to go on the defense and pushes me a bit toward the right who are at this moment not attacking me, but I know full well that if they come into power I'll be pushed back the other way.

Bottom line is I'm against authoritarianism, whether from the right or the left. You do you, live your own life as you see fit and leave me alone to live mine.

That is really the other important dimension in the "political quadrature" that we live in:   Right <--> Left,  and  Authoritarian <--> Liberal

A lot of problems that we are having is from people insisting on collapsing a two (or more) dimensional problem onto a single line or even a point...

[MK14]

It seems like these days politics get thrust into absolutely everything.

As much as I like discussing political things. It is so annoying, that the coronavirus, is made so political.
E.g. Politicians saying DON'T wear masks etc.

It is NOT political (as such), and should be treated in a scientific/medical manor.

Putting politics into it (coronavirus ignores politics, obviously), and having demonstrations during a major virus epidemic, are rather/very bad ideas.

Similarly, this Master/Slave renaming stuff, is really politics and political correctness (gone mad), messing around with software sources and things, where it DOESN'T belong.

Software source (and electronics documentation), are NOT political!
Please leave them alone.
In general, no one outside of the software/electronics engineers, usually bothers to read any source code, or electronic systems documentation. Who cares if a technical term can be misunderstood, by someone as being offensive/racist.
tl;dr
It is Political Correctness, taken to silly levels.
What next, THOUGHT POLICE and thought control boxes, fixed directly to our brains ?

[Magnificent Bastard]

I have used the "Master/Slave" terminology for decades for protocols, firmware schemas, automobile brake systems, etc.

I will continue to use these terms, and I refuse to bow down to the "Politically Correct" crowd that seeks to destroy freedom of speech worldwide through bastardization of the language.

Oh and BTW-- I am neither a racist nor do I engage in racial prejudice (some people don't know there is a difference).

[Simon]

in the system i am developing with a subcontractor we did name ECU's that are RS485 coms slaves as satelite ECU's but this was not out of PC, it was because the extra ECU is an expansion of the main ECU remotely carrying out what we can't do from the master ECU but we still refer to the comms as master/slave. It's all nuanced and without it we would not be able to have an hour long conversation at a time over the phone and come to constructive conclusions about progress and decisions. We even named some devices "simple slaves" because they are not generic ECU's but dedicated controllers to one simple task that are slaves in the comms scheme/protocol. The lefties would have a field day with us but our aim is to properly define things so that in a couple of words we know what we mean and save a whole load of time, and time is money.