'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[SilverSolder]

I just hope modern schools are not teaching the same ryhme/mnemonic for the resistor color code that they did in my engineering class. Because that would be really bad. No REALLY bad.

What? Black boys rape our young girls but violet gives willingly? That's what we were taught, but in recent years it's become bad boys...

It was "bad boys" even when I learned it in the 70's,  perhaps a distant precursor to today! 

[Sal Ammoniac]

"Black boys" is better than "bad boys" because with bad boys you don't know whether black or brown comes first.

[Syntax Error]

By my era, we were taught that Virgins went Without.

I assume the term 'antenna diversity' is not yet a thought crime; unless it's a 5G antenna made by Huawei?

[Sal Ammoniac]

I assume the term 'antenna diversity' is not yet a thought crime; unless it's a 5G antenna made by Huawei?

I heard that it is in the UK where roving gangs are setting fire to 5G towers because they think they help spread Covid-19.

[Syntax Error]

I assume the term 'antenna diversity' is not yet a thought crime; unless it's a 5G antenna made by Huawei?

I heard that it is in the UK where roving gangs are setting fire to 5G towers because they think they help spread Covid-19.

It's true. Thankfully our nut jobs aint got guns.

Coronavirus: Man jailed for 5G phone mast arson attack https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52966950

[Sal Ammoniac]

I assume the term 'antenna diversity' is not yet a thought crime; unless it's a 5G antenna made by Huawei?

I heard that it is in the UK where roving gangs are setting fire to 5G towers because they think they help spread Covid-19.

It's true. Thankfully our nut jobs aint got guns.

Are you sure about that? From the article you linked to: "The judge said Whitty, who had 29 previous convictions, including for assault and for possession of a firearm"

[nuclearcat]

So crowdsupply decided to engage in conversation.
https://twitter.com/crowd_supply/status/1283102614020734976

Every decision made, including any decision about technology, is political - it reflects how we want to shape the world, whether we're aware of it or not. The proper way to rename something is to start talking about it, which is exactly what happened here.

But at the very least, what I want to say is that while names of the signals can be pulled into politics, but most of the decisions in electronics are not related to politics, but have roots in physical professions who do not give a damn about politics.
And promoting in the product signal naming CIPO COPI, especially if it is an interface converter, to say it mildly - leads to a mess.

[paulca]

This thread is getting too tedious to bother with. I'm outa here and am going to go work on a SPI slave driver for STM32F7.

What brand?

[tggzzz]

This thread is getting too tedious to bother with. I'm outa here and am going to go work on a SPI slave driver for STM32F7.

What brand?

Ownership was traditionally denoted by the master's brand. <GD&R>

[james_s]

And why is GND always black and has a lower potential than any other colour?

In US mains cables white is neutral and black is live.

Typical terminology here, black is "hot" and white is "neutral".

[Nominal Animal]

This stuff is seriously weirding me out.

It's like overhearing someone tell how they were flipping through the morning newspaper with their left hand, munching on a breakfast cookie in their right hand, and petting their treecat with their gripping hand.

[TimFox]

I always wondered why those colors were chosen (white for neutral and black for line).  I asked a professional electrician, and he replied "black means death", but I think that is just what he was taught as a safety mnemonic when an apprentice. 
As I understand the US code, white (rarely grey) is reserved for neutral, green and green/yellow are reserved for protective ground, and any other color (typically black, red, and blue) can be used for line (especially in three-phase power).  The normal European code has blue for neutral and brown for line, with green/yellow for protective earth.
Could be worse:  in some European countries years ago, the color for protective earth (ground) was red--go figure.

[fourfathom]

On boats (and cars, I suppose) black was for battery(-), usually ground, and red was for battery(+).  When a boat also had shore-power AC wiring then we had a potential problem where a black wire could either be DC ground or AC hot.  Yellow is now more commonly used for battery (-), but it's hardly consistent.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that we change color codes and wiring practices, or are we just riffing?

And I hope you noticed my clever play on words above.

[SkyMaster]

And why is GND always black and has a lower potential than any other colour?

In US mains cables white is neutral and black is live.

Typical terminology here, black is "hot" and white is "neutral".

Canadian and American electrical codes are racists. Both codes have to be rewritten, and all wires shall be grey in colour. Tracer will be used to differenciate the wires, but the tracers shall be grey in colour.

 

[james_s]

I always wondered why those colors were chosen (white for neutral and black for line).  I asked a professional electrician, and he replied "black means death", but I think that is just what he was taught as a safety mnemonic when an apprentice. 
As I understand the US code, white (rarely grey) is reserved for neutral, green and green/yellow are reserved for protective ground, and any other color (typically black, red, and blue) can be used for line (especially in three-phase power).  The normal European code has blue for neutral and brown for line, with green/yellow for protective earth.
Could be worse:  in some European countries years ago, the color for protective earth (ground) was red--go figure.

The precise reasons may well be lost to time. Perhaps looking back to the original materials used for wire insulation will provide clues? Natural rubber for example is black, so maybe they first insulated live wires with rubber? I really don't know, but either way they had to choose colors at some point and no matter what they chose somebody is eventually going to wonder why.

[SkyMaster]

I always wondered why those colors were chosen (white for neutral and black for line).  I asked a professional electrician, and he replied "black means death", but I think that is just what he was taught as a safety mnemonic when an apprentice. 
As I understand the US code, white (rarely grey) is reserved for neutral, green and green/yellow are reserved for protective ground, and any other color (typically black, red, and blue) can be used for line (especially in three-phase power).  The normal European code has blue for neutral and brown for line, with green/yellow for protective earth.
Could be worse:  in some European countries years ago, the color for protective earth (ground) was red--go figure.

The precise reasons may well be lost to time. Perhaps looking back to the original materials used for wire insulation will provide clues? Natural rubber for example is black, so maybe they first insulated live wires with rubber? I really don't know, but either way they had to choose colors at some point and no matter what they chose somebody is eventually going to wonder why.

I was still in liquid form at the time, but I think that way back in time, there was wire used that were not even insulated (in houses). Later, the insulation used was somekind of fabic. Then PVC replaced the fabric.

 

[themadhippy]

When a boat also had shore-power AC wiring then we had a potential problem where a black wire could either be DC ground or AC hot.

Here in  the uk pre 2004 the fixed wiring colour code was    black  neutral and the 3 phases were red yellow and blue .Post 2004 the phase colours changed to  brown grey and black with neutral becoming blue.Makes for interesting times when working on older installations with mixed colours.

[pardo-bsso]

While I catch up with the newer posts I leave here this very apropos quote of Nietzsche:

"this has caused me the greatest trouble, and still causes me the greatest trouble: to realize that what things are called is unspeakably more important than what they are"

Has anybody yet made the suggestion to start using rot13-ed English as an universal engineering language?

[SilverSolder]

While I catch up with the newer posts I leave here this very apropos quote of Nietzsche:

"this has caused me the greatest trouble, and still causes me the greatest trouble: to realize that what things are called is unspeakably more important than what they are"

Has anybody yet made the suggestion to start using rot13-ed English as an universal engineering language?

Nietzsche - the favourite philosopher of the Nazis - maybe not a good example in general! 

[Nominal Animal]

Nietzsche - the favourite philosopher of the Nazis - maybe not a good example in general! 

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

Nietzche died in 1900.  He was a philosopher, asking questions, not telling others what to do.  He correctly predicted what the "death of God", people shifting away from religion as the central structure of their lives, would cause.  He is aemong the dozen or so western philosophers in the last two hundred years or so who have had major impact on our societies.

But no, because there have been people who cherry-picked some of his ideas to bolster their own murderous ideology, you claim that Nietzche himself is suspect: guilty by association.

At the same time, actual Marxists walk around killing people, and nobody bats an eye.

I expected a lot more from you, SilverSolder.  That was an idiotic statement I would not have expected from you.

[fourfathom]

Has anybody yet made the suggestion to start using rot13-ed English as an universal engineering language?

For extra security I use double-ROT-13.

[SilverSolder]

Nietzsche - the favourite philosopher of the Nazis - maybe not a good example in general! 

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?

Nietzche died in 1900.  He was a philosopher, asking questions, not telling others what to do.  He correctly predicted what the "death of God", people shifting away from religion as the central structure of their lives, would cause.  He is aemong the dozen or so western philosophers in the last two hundred years or so who have had major impact on our societies.

But no, because there have been people who cherry-picked some of his ideas to bolster their own murderous ideology, you claim that Nietzche himself is suspect: guilty by association.

At the same time, actual Marxists walk around killing people, and nobody bats an eye.

I expected a lot more from you, SilverSolder.  That was an idiotic statement I would not have expected from you.

Note that I didn't say Nietzche was a nazi, I said the Nazis liked Nietzche.

Don't shoot the messenger - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_and_reception_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche#Nietzsche_and_fascism

[EEVblog]

So crowdsupply decided to engage in conversation.
https://twitter.com/crowd_supply/status/1283102614020734976

Every decision made, including any decision about technology, is political - it reflects how we want to shape the world, whether we're aware of it or not. The proper way to rename something is to start talking about it, which is exactly what happened here.

But at the very least, what I want to say is that while names of the signals can be pulled into politics, but most of the decisions in electronics are not related to politics, but have roots in physical professions who do not give a damn about politics.

Exactly.
People choose to view it through a political lens, and to do so where none existed in the first place. Somehow they think this is righteous. Why?
(I know why, it's a rhetorical question)

[Nominal Animal]

Saying Nietzche was in favour of the Nazis (having been already dead for a couple of decades), and therefore you should ignore everything Nietzche said or wrote,
is exactly like banning terms or speech because somebody ostensibly gets offended by the terms by reinterpreting them in a completely different context.

It's the same thing with statues and memorials.  They exist for us to remember.  They are not something we worship; they are there to teach us.  You only tear them down when you want everyone to forget them and the history they represent.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Nietzches cogitation about human psyche and cultures, if you ignore his work completely, you are doing exactly the same utterly inane thing these crazy leftists are doing by banning terms and speech: lalalalalalala I can't hear you, so you don't exist go away lalalalalala –– instead of actually learning from history and doing better.

If you do that, you're just as horrible as the term-banning twats.

[james_s]

Note that I didn't say Nietzche was a nazi, I said the Nazis liked Nietzche.

Don't shoot the messenger - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_and_reception_of_Friedrich_Nietzsche#Nietzsche_and_fascism

That's an excellent example of something someone mentioned earlier. Far too often "Person A knew/liked/quoted person B" becomes "person B had the same ideologies as or supported person A". It's like the whole world has collectively lost their minds and forgotten how to have a rational conversation.