'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[madires]

master is a very broad term. it's even used in the context of learning something practical, you master a skill, you become a master craftsman. People wanting to get rid of master must have very limited exposure to the full extent of the english language.

More likely languages in general, because most languages share the same principle of words having multiple meanings based on the context they are used in. In German the master of a slave would be "Herr" which is also used to address male persons besides many other meanings. For example, Christians call their god "Herr".

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

it's not even SDI SDO, it's the fact that they didn't just say SPI [...]

Sometimes the manufacturers use different names to avoid paying royalties, e.g. they say in the datasheet "two wire protocol" instead of i2c, or avoid "SDCard" like the plague and say "flash card" instead, the same goes for "One Wire", etc.

If that's an old Texas Instruments datasheet, perhaps they didn't want to pay Motorola? (just guessing).

[Kjelt]

They should have called it SIWSCADLNTBCWI2SWIIN¹ that would cover it 


¹Serial Interface With Seperated Clock And Data Lines Not To Be Confused With I2S Which It Is Not.

[Simon]

master is a very broad term. it's even used in the context of learning something practical, you master a skill, you become a master craftsman. People wanting to get rid of master must have very limited exposure to the full extent of the english language.

More likely languages in general, because most languages share the same principle of words having multiple meanings based on the context they are used in. In German the master of a slave would be "Herr" which is also used to address male persons besides many other meanings. For example, Christians call their god "Herr".

I always thought that an unmarried man was a master and again historically while a servant may have refereed to their employer as "sir" they would have called the son "master". It is certainly not that much status but a word used to differentiate from the one with actual authority the mr or sir of the house.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Now we really go off the deep end: https://hackaday.com/2020/06/29/updating-the-language-of-spi-pin-labels-to-remove-casual-references-to-slavery/

Purging the language to eliminate evil... won't work. The problem with taking things too far like this is that people will tune out, or worse make a counter reaction. I guess refusing to change my schematics now makes me a racist, as does not wearing a poppy or saluting the flag make me a communist or something. 

[Simon]

I stopped wearing a poppy a while ago but still donate to every poppy seller see. The symbol has lost meaning. It was meant as a symbol to remember what had passed and those that fought on the side of good. And yet here we are in a world of war and an ever divided society. I once listened to a radio show called "an inspector calls" written in 1948 I think, but for the odd term or reference it's a story that still reflects the current state of affairs. The symbol of the poppy is wasted and now idolized by right wing fanatics.

[paulca]

I stopped wearing a poppy a while ago but still donate to every poppy seller see. The symbol has lost meaning. It was meant as a symbol to remember what had passed and those that fought on the side of good. And yet here we are in a world of war and an ever divided society. I once listened to a radio show called "an inspector calls" written in 1948 I think, but for the odd term or reference it's a story that still reflects the current state of affairs. The symbol of the poppy is wasted and now idolized by right wing fanatics.

A rather drunk conclusion fell upon me the other night. 

When you can no longer point to someone and say, "They fought and died for your freedom.  He lost his brothers.  She lost her sons.  He lost his child.  That whole family fell.  When we can no longer point the youth to these people, is war inevitable?

[PlainName]

SDI and SDO names have been used in SPI and SPI-like device specifications like forever. I like MISO and MOSI instead because they are super-explicit and spell everything out for you.

Anyone considered that SPI doesn't have to mean 'master/slave'? Sometimes it is just peer-to-peer data, spat out when it's available rather than triggered by one end or the other. Master/slave would be appropriate for multidrop, but otherwise who is in control and who is being controlled is a purely software thing, so not really appropriate at the hardware level. Indeed, if it were a software stack there would be too much cohesion between the two levels if you did that.

[donotdespisethesnake]

SDI and SDO names have been used in SPI and SPI-like device specifications like forever. I like MISO and MOSI instead because they are super-explicit and spell everything out for you.

Anyone considered that SPI doesn't have to mean 'master/slave'? Sometimes it is just peer-to-peer data, spat out when it's available rather than triggered by one end or the other. Master/slave would be appropriate for multidrop, but otherwise who is in control and who is being controlled is a purely software thing, so not really appropriate at the hardware level. Indeed, if it were a software stack there would be too much cohesion between the two levels if you did that.

That is not true. SPI is a hardware standard, what the software transfers is irrelevant. The master drives the slave select signals and the clock. Those signals are always inputs on the slaves.

The master always initiates an SPI transaction. In the sense that the slave monitors signals from the master, the slave is an observer. Therefore I propose IOOI and IIOO, then there will be no confusion.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Quoted here because it will get deleted soon :

One thought on “A Resolution to Redefine SPI Pin Names”

    Mcken says:   
    June 29, 2020 at 9:21 am

    This is the most sorry piece of white guilt writing I’ve ever read. Slavery isn’t exclusive to people of color, it permeated society for millions of years, and literally nobody else has a problem with using those words for hardware. The sorry state of society we’re in that we must need to create our own problems when we don’t want to deal with real problems. How about addressing the rampant gangs that destroyed our cities, or the militant takeover of Seattle. Nope, we’re going to fix the problem by frying electronic devices because no one knows which way they need to be connected. What’s next, are you going to petition BDSM clubs to stop using words master and slave.

The blogs promoting the "SPI resolution" are censoring people with opposing opinions, somewhat ironic.

[Simon]

SDI and SDO names have been used in SPI and SPI-like device specifications like forever. I like MISO and MOSI instead because they are super-explicit and spell everything out for you.

Anyone considered that SPI doesn't have to mean 'master/slave'? Sometimes it is just peer-to-peer data, spat out when it's available rather than triggered by one end or the other. Master/slave would be appropriate for multidrop, but otherwise who is in control and who is being controlled is a purely software thing, so not really appropriate at the hardware level. Indeed, if it were a software stack there would be too much cohesion between the two levels if you did that.

wrong, so the chip in question can generate it's own clock and has chip select pins to pick who it is sending data to? SPI is master/slave, only one device can control. Yes it is possible to have a multi-master situation but I think that is very rare and probably only happens between micro controllers. Peripheral chips never really have the ability to control the bus. SPI is so ubiquitous because it makes life so easy, a single clock, MISO and MOSI and you can talk to as many other chips as you have pins to enable them with with no buggering about with addresses like other protocols require where you often can't have 2 or more of the same chip on the bus and also have to hope that different chips don't have the same address.

[ElectonRob]

Just signed up to post this. So angry.

Long time lurker.

https://www.oshwa.org/2020/06/29/a-resolution-to-redefine-spi-pin-names/#comment-499399

Can a few others leave some sensible comments here please. This is going too far in general. I'm positive that none of the people who post in this forum are 'white supremacists' as this article suggests. I, throughout my career have met EE of many races and colours and none of them understand what the hell is going on, none of them have any issue with the terms MASTER and SLAVE, these are word that perfectly describe a FUNCTION. The words do not belong to one race and while I completely disagree with racism I too disagree with being told what words I do and do not have the right to use.

Rob,

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Quoted here because it will get deleted soon :

One thought on “A Resolution to Redefine SPI Pin Names”

    Mcken says:   
    June 29, 2020 at 9:21 am

    This is the most sorry piece of white guilt writing I’ve ever read. Slavery isn’t exclusive to people of color, it permeated society for millions of years, and literally nobody else has a problem with using those words for hardware. The sorry state of society we’re in that we must need to create our own problems when we don’t want to deal with real problems. How about addressing the rampant gangs that destroyed our cities, or the militant takeover of Seattle. Nope, we’re going to fix the problem by frying electronic devices because no one knows which way they need to be connected. What’s next, are you going to petition BDSM clubs to stop using words master and slave.

The blogs promoting the "SPI resolution" are censoring people with opposing opinions, somewhat ironic.

Yeah, thanks, take note guys:

Endorsements
Individuals and companies welcome (Email info@oshwa.org to be added to the list below)

Adam Benzion, Hackster.io
bunnie, bunniestudios
Glenn Samala, Sparkfun
Harris Kenny, OSHdata
Jason Huggins, Tapster Robotics
Jonathan Georgino, Binho LLC
Joshua Lifton, Crowd Supply
Libi Striegl, Media Archaeology Lab
Limor Fried, Adafruit Industries
Matthias Tarasiewicz, RIAT Institute
Nathan Seidle, SparkFun Electronics
Phil Torrone, Adafruit Industries
Shawn Hymel, Hello Blink Show
Steven Abadie, OSHdata
Tod Kurt, ThingM
Tom Igoe, NYU ITP
Joel Murphy, Pulse Sensor
Yury Gitman, Pulse Sensor

[PlainName]

The master drives the slave select signals and the clock.

Yes, fair enough 

[ElectronRob]

Comments already disabled, I guess telling people what they can and cannot say is easier if you also delete all the historical words you disagree with.

[coppice]

The master drives the slave select signals and the clock.

Yes, fair enough 

Notice how the poor old master is doing all the work there, and the slave can just sit back and let things happen. 

[madires]

Comments already disabled, I guess telling people what they can and cannot say is easier if you also delete all the historical words you disagree with.

When the Open Source Hardware Association censors non-offensive free speech then it should be renamed into Closed Source Hardware Association.

[Simon]

Comments already disabled, I guess telling people what they can and cannot say is easier if you also delete all the historical words you disagree with.

When the Open Source Hardware Association censors non-offensive free speech then it should be renamed into Closed Source Hardware Association.

OK maybe i went too far calling the author "shit for brains"...... or hit too close to home.

[donotdespisethesnake]

The weird thing is I am what people what describe as a progressive liberal. I'm that guy who asks people not to use sexist or homophobic language. Now I suddenly find I am on "the wrong side", and the mob has pitchforks and they are coming for me.

Because apparently, if I am against this pointless renaming, I am pro-slavery, and the mob will make it hard for me to find a job.

I think that the people who are already having a hard time finding jobs because of racial bias and discrimination don’t particularly care that you’re having trouble finding a job because you apparently talk about how much you love master/slave terminology on the internet.

The threat "what you write on the internet will be used against you" is not a joke. People lives get ruined, even by case of mistaken identity https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/what-its-like-to-get-doxed-for-taking-a-bike-ride.html

Needless to say, my followup to that comment was censored. I guess you never realize the power of the mob until they turn on you.

[coppice]

The weird thing is I am what people what describe as a progressive liberal. I'm that guy who asks people not to use sexist or homophobic language.

That's sooooo last year. This year you are only termed a progressive liberal if you are authoritarian, racist, sexist, and homophobic. Remember that names are not chosen to illuminate, but to obscure.

[SilverSolder]

The weird thing is I am what people what describe as a progressive liberal. I'm that guy who asks people not to use sexist or homophobic language. Now I suddenly find I am on "the wrong side", and the mob has pitchforks and they are coming for me.

Because apparently, if I am against this pointless renaming, I am pro-slavery, and the mob will make it hard for me to find a job.

I think that the people who are already having a hard time finding jobs because of racial bias and discrimination don’t particularly care that you’re having trouble finding a job because you apparently talk about how much you love master/slave terminology on the internet.

The threat "what you write on the internet will be used against you" is not a joke. People lives get ruined, even by case of mistaken identity https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/what-its-like-to-get-doxed-for-taking-a-bike-ride.html

Needless to say, my followup to that comment was censored. I guess you never realize the power of the mob until they turn on you.

Why would anyone use an app that publishes your personal information /whereabouts.   So touchingly naive...

[madires]

Another tidbit about the OSHWA's resolution is that they associate slaves with black people which can be seen as racist. Oopsie! Are words racist or people? Maybe the OSHWA should ban itself.

[nuclearcat]

Oh well, this stupidity hit hackaday as well.
https://hackaday.com/2020/06/29/updating-the-language-of-spi-pin-labels-to-remove-casual-references-to-slavery/
Someone coined very well in comments:
"This is what psychologists call “displacement activity”. When you can’t directly change something, people change something else that they can, even if it is not relevant."
And worst part, those who push those changes often belongs to ancestors of enslavers. Either they feel guilt, but dont want to do something real, either just trying to close our eyes to the shameful past of their ancestry.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Someone coined very well in comments:
"This is what psychologists call “displacement activity”. When you can’t directly change something, people change something else that they can, even if it is not relevant."

Thanks 

[langwadt]

Quoted here because it will get deleted soon :

One thought on “A Resolution to Redefine SPI Pin Names”

    Mcken says:   
    June 29, 2020 at 9:21 am

    This is the most sorry piece of white guilt writing I’ve ever read. Slavery isn’t exclusive to people of color, it permeated society for millions of years, and literally nobody else has a problem with using those words for hardware. The sorry state of society we’re in that we must need to create our own problems when we don’t want to deal with real problems. How about addressing the rampant gangs that destroyed our cities, or the militant takeover of Seattle. Nope, we’re going to fix the problem by frying electronic devices because no one knows which way they need to be connected. What’s next, are you going to petition BDSM clubs to stop using words master and slave.

The blogs promoting the "SPI resolution" are censoring people with opposing opinions, somewhat ironic.

Yeah, thanks, take note guys:

Endorsements
Individuals and companies welcome (Email info@oshwa.org to be added to the list below)

Adam Benzion, Hackster.io
bunnie, bunniestudios
Glenn Samala, Sparkfun
Harris Kenny, OSHdata
Jason Huggins, Tapster Robotics
Jonathan Georgino, Binho LLC
Joshua Lifton, Crowd Supply
Libi Striegl, Media Archaeology Lab
Limor Fried, Adafruit Industries
Matthias Tarasiewicz, RIAT Institute
Nathan Seidle, SparkFun Electronics
Phil Torrone, Adafruit Industries
Shawn Hymel, Hello Blink Show
Steven Abadie, OSHdata
Tod Kurt, ThingM
Tom Igoe, NYU ITP
Joel Murphy, Pulse Sensor
Yury Gitman, Pulse Sensor

When there's a lynch mob with pitch forks outside saying what they want to hear is the easy way to avoid trouble

That is just one of the reasons voting in elections are secret