'Master' and 'slave': Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

[Zero999]

The reason for the blue/brown is due to some common colour blindness seeing red and black as the same colour.

Another example of snowflakes interfering. A  colour blindness test used to be part of the interview prosess before being offered an apprenticeship  ,fail it  and  your out.But of course failures not allowed anymore.

10% of men are red-green colourblind.  It's not a small amount of people to reject.

I doubt that has anything to do with it. The idea that true colourblindess is common amongst men is a largely myth. The type of colourblindness which would make it impossible for someone to distinguish red and black, or even red and green is comparatively rare.

Colourblindness is a misnomer. It's true 10% of men fail the colourbliness tests, but that doesn't mean they see the world in greyscale. It's more subtle than that. The most common form of colourbliness is deuteranomaly which is very mild and often given the name red-green colour blindness, but it's not that simple. Most people with deuteranomaly can still distinguish between red and green.

Deuteranomaly is simply an anomaly in the green pigment in the cones of the retina, which shifts their response towards the red end of the spectrum, making it more difficult for someone with this condition to distinguish between some hues in the red-green end of the spectrum. This isn't a problem with bright colours: theey will still be able to tell the difference between fully saturated red, green, orange and yellow, but darker shades can be more challenging to differentiate.

Like many men I have deuteranomaly, but I can still use the resistor colour code in well lit conditions. It's only a problem when it's a bit dark or the paint is poor quality. Some cheap resistors use a dark red paint, which often looks like brown and the yellow often looks like green on blue resistors.

If an optician tells me I'm red-green colourblind, I correct them by telling them I'm brown colourblind. If they don't believe me, I prove to them I have no problem distinguishing between red and green objects, but might struggle with dark red and different shades of brown. Obliviously being brown colourblind means I can't be racist.   

[coppice]

I doubt that has anything to do with it. The idea that true colourblindess is common amongst men is a largely myth. The type of colourblindness which would make it impossible for someone to distinguish red and black, or even red and green is comparatively rare.

Really? Back in the days of colour banded resistors I used to get a LOT of resistors stuck under my nose by some random guy at the next bench, asking me to read them. If it was possible for them to distinguish the relevant colours to some extent, their ability certainly wasn't good enough to give them any confidence.

[james_s]

I would hate to be colorblind. I've always had excellent vision and find lights and bright colors to be very visually stimulating. I've looked at simulations of various forms of colorblindness and was shocked at how dull and drab the world looks.

Actually that makes me wonder if there's any correlation between colorblindness and forms of depression. Drab bland landscapes make me feel gloomy, bright colors make me feel good.

[james_s]

What he says is very accurate, an just like we think not saying nigger anymore means we are not racist anymore is wrong, so is tearing down statues and changing words not going to make a blind bit of difference unless we actually want to get rid of racism.

I don't disagree with him, although I do think that racism is not as common as many think, at least a lot of things that people blame on racism are not. It's one of those things though where if you believe everyone is racist then you're going to see racism everywhere you look whether it is there or not, it's a form of confirmation bias. A great many people project their own racism on everyone else too.

Regarding that word, given how broadly offensive it is to many people it seems better if nobody uses it, at least not in the context of referring to another person. If the black community wants to have it as their word, fine, who am I to tell them not to say it, but as long as people keep saying it, it's going to stay in the vocabulary. As with all these other words that have been discussed though, it's not actually the word itself that's the problem, but the message it is used to carry.

[Simon]

That was my point it's how the word is used and in itself is not offensive but then that is the exact same position we find ourselves in with master/slave while not offensive they are now deemed offensive by some people who want to say they brought about change and solved racism but telling other people what to do.

[Zero999]

I doubt that has anything to do with it. The idea that true colourblindess is common amongst men is a largely myth. The type of colourblindness which would make it impossible for someone to distinguish red and black, or even red and green is comparatively rare.

Really? Back in the days of colour banded resistors I used to get a LOT of resistors stuck under my nose by some random guy at the next bench, asking me to read them. If it was possible for them to distinguish the relevant colours to some extent, their ability certainly wasn't good enough to give them any confidence.

Well I didn't say severe colourblindess doesn't exist, just that it's more rare, than many believe.

What was the lighting like? Let me guess old fashioned low CRI fluorescent, HID or mercury vapour? If he was only slightly colourblind, he probably would have been able to do the job fine under better lighting, but why didn't he just use a multimeter, or were the resistors already fitted to the board? If the latter was true, a small incandescent torch would have helped.

[coppice]

I doubt that has anything to do with it. The idea that true colourblindess is common amongst men is a largely myth. The type of colourblindness which would make it impossible for someone to distinguish red and black, or even red and green is comparatively rare.

Really? Back in the days of colour banded resistors I used to get a LOT of resistors stuck under my nose by some random guy at the next bench, asking me to read them. If it was possible for them to distinguish the relevant colours to some extent, their ability certainly wasn't good enough to give them any confidence.

Well I didn't say severe colourblindess doesn't exist, just that it's more rare, than many believe.

What was the lighting like? Let me guess old fashioned low CRI fluorescent, HID or mercury vapour? If he was only slightly colourblind, he probably would have been able to do the job fine under better lighting, but why didn't he just use a multimeter, or were the resistors already fitted to the board? If the latter was true, a small incandescent torch would have helped.

Many, many, many people, in a variety of places with different lighting conditions (mostly daylight near big windows or fluorescent) have stuck resistors under my nose to be read. Lighting conditions under which I have never had a problem reading resistors, apart from some of the families of early metal film resistors where everyone struggles between red, orange and brown, and the sales people were used to hearing complaints. As for why they didn't use a meter, that was usually my question when they did this too often.

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

Half toasted ones can be almost impossible to decipher. And yes, I have found orange and red difficult to distinguish more than once => ended up with 47k instead of 4k7 :-)

[GeorgeOfTheJungle]

What he says is very accurate, an just like we think not saying nigger anymore means we are not racist anymore is wrong, so is tearing down statues and changing words not going to make a blind bit of difference unless we actually want to get rid of racism.

It isn't really about racism, what this sick minds are asking for is positive discrimination, a sort of privileged carte blanche for their chosen groups (you name it), and if you dare to point that out, in the sick minds' minds you're not allowed to disagree and you're called names or worse.

[paulca]

What he says is very accurate, an just like we think not saying nigger anymore means we are not racist anymore is wrong, so is tearing down statues and changing words not going to make a blind bit of difference unless we actually want to get rid of racism.

It isn't really about racism, what this sick minds are asking for is positive discrimination, a sort of privileged carte blanche for their chosen groups (you name it), and if you dare to point that out, in the sick minds' minds you're not allowed to disagree and you're called names or worse.

You mean fascism?

[Zero999]

What he says is very accurate, an just like we think not saying nigger anymore means we are not racist anymore is wrong, so is tearing down statues and changing words not going to make a blind bit of difference unless we actually want to get rid of racism.

I don't disagree with him, although I do think that racism is not as common as many think, at least a lot of things that people blame on racism are not. It's one of those things though where if you believe everyone is racist then you're going to see racism everywhere you look whether it is there or not, it's a form of confirmation bias. A great many people project their own racism on everyone else too.

There is racism and then there are those with a persecution complex, which might have been brought about by racism, but now they feel as though the world is against them. I've been there myself, not because I've been the victim of racism, but because I was picked on at school. As a late teen-young adult I suffered from depression, social anxiety and went through a phase of being very, paranoid, defensive and aggressive. It didn't sit very well with those who I worked with, at the time, but I didn't lose my job, until there are redundancies on the cards, so I took voluntary, because I felt strongly that I'd be made redundant anyway. I got a big payout, took a year of work to try to get my head straight, found another job, but then went into a downward spiral of depression and an eating disorder, so I lost that one too to redundancy. Eventually I got help, a new job and am mostly fine now, although I accept there will be occasions when I'll have flare ups again, most recently just after returning to work, after lockdown. Fortunately I didn't get involved with gangs or drugs, although I did go through a phase of binge drinking.

I'm not saying everyone is the same, but can understand why someone who's had a hard time may thing the world is against them.

Regarding that word, given how broadly offensive it is to many people it seems better if nobody uses it, at least not in the context of referring to another person. If the black community wants to have it as their word, fine, who am I to tell them not to say it, but as long as people keep saying it, it's going to stay in the vocabulary. As with all these other words that have been discussed though, it's not actually the word itself that's the problem, but the message it is used to carry.

Yes, people get triggered too easily. Notice how when someone is angry, anxious or depressed, they often can't take a joke? This is no different.

[SilverSolder]

What he says is very accurate, an just like we think not saying nigger anymore means we are not racist anymore is wrong, so is tearing down statues and changing words not going to make a blind bit of difference unless we actually want to get rid of racism.

I don't disagree with him, although I do think that racism is not as common as many think, at least a lot of things that people blame on racism are not. It's one of those things though where if you believe everyone is racist then you're going to see racism everywhere you look whether it is there or not, it's a form of confirmation bias. A great many people project their own racism on everyone else too.

There is racism and then there are those with a persecution complex, which might have been brought about by racism, but now they feel as though the world is against them. I've been there myself, not because I've been the victim of racism, but because I was picked on at school. As a late teen-young adult I suffered from depression, social anxiety and went through a phase of being very, paranoid, defensive and aggressive. It didn't sit very well with those who I worked with, at the time, but I didn't lose my job, until there are redundancies on the cards, so I took voluntary, because I felt strongly that I'd be made redundant anyway. I got a big payout, took a year of work to try to get my head straight, found another job, but then went into a downward spiral of depression and an eating disorder, so I lost that one too to redundancy. Eventually I got help, a new job and am mostly fine now, although I accept there will be occasions when I'll have flare ups again, most recently just after returning to work, after lockdown. Fortunately I didn't get involved with gangs or drugs, although I did go through a phase of binge drinking.

I'm not saying everyone is the same, but can understand why someone who's had a hard time may thing the world is against them.

Regarding that word, given how broadly offensive it is to many people it seems better if nobody uses it, at least not in the context of referring to another person. If the black community wants to have it as their word, fine, who am I to tell them not to say it, but as long as people keep saying it, it's going to stay in the vocabulary. As with all these other words that have been discussed though, it's not actually the word itself that's the problem, but the message it is used to carry.

Yes, people get triggered too easily. Notice how when someone is angry, anxious or depressed, they often can't take a joke? This is no different.

On the upside, people who didn't arrive here "by the straight and narrow" often have more interesting perspectives on things, and don't tend to take everything for granted...   Everything in life is life experience, even the hard parts.  (Perhaps especially the hard parts.)

[0culus]

This past week we started getting some emails circulating at work about how they are going to cram 'inclusive' replacements for well established technical terms down our throats. It's quite frankly a total dumpster fire. Many of the proposed new terms totally lose the meaning inherent in the established term. To the point where it's going to turn into a comedy watching people try to explain what they mean in technical documents and such.

And then what happens 5 years later when we decide one of the new terms is now offensive to someone? 

To the folks who think this is a good idea: look at yourself in the mirror. Ask yourself why you think it's going to be effective to upend years of technical jargon. What problem is it solving? If your answer is "because I felt offended", or "I want to virtue signal", here's a hint. Blacklisting (and yes I use this term unapologetically in it's widely accepted meaning in this context) technical language is not solving any real issue that actually affects anyone. Grow up, be an adult and stop looking for reasons to be offended. Instead, direct your energy to solving real problems. Then you can actually feel good about yourself.

[james_s]

At least the "N-word" has no other meaning that I'm aware of, it's relatively unique in that regard, not like it's been used for decades to describe something else that has nothing at all to do with racism the way master, slave and others. I'm much more supportive of voluntarily retiring a word that has no other use other than as a highly offensive slur. As long as people continue to use it, it will remain in circulation but it's easy enough to not use it myself.

[PlainName]

the "N-word" has no other meaning that I'm aware of

Ditto for 'rosbif' and I expect an outcry and complete ban on that too. Hereinafter referred to as the r-word.

[james_s]

Ditto for 'rosbif' and I expect an outcry and complete ban on that too. Hereinafter referred to as the r-word.

I must have missed the memo, what is a rosbif? Did you just make that up or does it actually mean something? A word has to attain widespread meaning and use before it can be considered widely offensive.

I don't think we need to "ban" any words, but I think it's reasonable to take a dim view of people using certain ones that have no purpose beyond offending people. I'm not going to advocate fining someone or throwing them in jail for saying any word but I'm not likely to hang out with someone who has a habit of using the N word, regardless of their race.

[PlainName]

It's what the frogsFrench call the English, 'roast beefs' in the parlance:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2913151.stm

That article is actually pretty relevant, noting how the term came about inoffensively and then got used as an insult.

[james_s]

That just makes me hungry, I love roast beef.

[Ed.Kloonk]

That just makes me hungry, I love roast beef.

In Japan, a waiter was trying to tell me about a lost beef. I wondered why they didn't keep it tied up.

[tggzzz]

the "N-word" has no other meaning that I'm aware of

Ditto for 'rosbif' and I expect an outcry and complete ban on that too. Hereinafter referred to as the r-word.

Ditto "grockle" and the French equivalent "homard". Both are pejorative, the latter directly relates to colour.

[JPortici]

At least the "N-word" has no other meaning that I'm aware of, it's relatively unique in that regard, not like it's been used for decades to describe something else that has nothing at all to do with racism the way master, slave and others. I'm much more supportive of voluntarily retiring a word that has no other use other than as a highly offensive slur. As long as people continue to use it, it will remain in circulation but it's easy enough to not use it myself.

it is litterally a surname here (Negro / dal Negro <- very known local card manufacturer), there are also other "funny" surnames such as a colloquial term for semen but they are all slowly fading away
It's also in the name of some mountains here in the dolomites (Cima Negra / Croda Negra but that must be because the rock is darker, certainly not because they wanted to denigrate african americans. Gladly no propositions of changing mountain names so far, although they did change the name of a few huts like the Negerhütte - because the walls were painted black -)

[Simon]

We have 3 mountains in the lake district, "Cockup" "Little Cockup" and "Great Cockup", no idea how they got those names. Maybe we should change the names as they clearly take the micky out of people that make cockups.

[Ed.Kloonk]

1951.

[stefan_trekkie]

There is many languages in the world. In my own native lang. we use /in translation/ something like - Primary and secondary and also more levels dawn 3-4-5 etc .. But the point, I believe is to erase some history .To be one big happy zombie family in the end  .. There is many bad things happened in the past, specially in 19th and 20th century or just maybe they are more documented by newer technology and we know more about them ..

[EEVblog]

We have 3 mountains in the lake district, "Cockup" "Little Cockup" and "Great Cockup", no idea how they got those names. Maybe we should change the names as they clearly take the micky out of people that make cockups.

Clearly named to spread cis-hetero normative patriarchal oppression. Rename immediately!