Many UK Electronics engineers are doing nothing at work

[MK14]

My point is that the British government is paying for all this inactivity...its throwing UK public  money down the drain....your money in many cases judging by the Flags here.

Given this fact, here is a better use of this  British government money...

https://massey276.wixsite.com/government

would you agree?

No, just no.

We have had threads like this 1,000,000,000,000,000,000's of times (by the OP).

Can't the mods do something about this ?

Also this is POLITICAL which I thought was BANNED here ?

[coppice]

My point is that the British government is paying for all this inactivity...its throwing UK public  money down the drain....your money in many cases judging by the Flags here.

How is the British government paying for the inactivity of people in industry? Don't they only pay when the inactivity leads to layoffs?

[2N3055]

Why do I care? Because it portrays the rest of us, with distinctly different and more professional experiences, in a bad light to those unfamiliar with the UK. 

Don't worry, we know the difference.. 

[Simon]

These unoccupied UK staff are not allowed to do anything unless their boss gives them permission......if they do,  they get spoken to....they get left doing nothing.
If they start doing some training of their own accord they are spoken to...and told not to.
if they start working  on product improvement of their own accord, they are told to "not have ideas above their station", and stop doing it.

My point is that the British government is paying for all this inactivity...its throwing UK public  money down the drain....your money in many cases judging by the Flags here.

Given this fact, here is a better use of this  British government money...

https://massey276.wixsite.com/government

would you agree?

Go and spend 2 weeks in a mental asylum and then come back. I have never read such rubbish!

[Simon]

And some *still* manage to do nothing even though they appear to be busy working at their desks and benches.

My boss hardly has a clue what I am doing and I could dissapere into the porta cabin in the carpark with a laptop all day and no one would notice. But I am ovorwhelmed with work or rather there is so much that we should be doing to not always run in crisis mode but I am always in crisis mode, so,

[Ian.M]

@Simon,
That was a somewhat sly dig at our 'beloved' O.P, who I now see is currently Banned.    May I enquire how long do we have to enjoy EEVblog being Treez-free?

[Simon]

   May I enquire how long do we have to enjoy EEVblog being Treez-free?

2 weeks! I'd really love to work in one of the companies treez describes, but they don't exist. This is not the soviet union. Yes there are lazy people, but there are not swathes of people paid to willfully do nothing!

[tggzzz]

These unoccupied UK staff are not allowed to do anything unless their boss gives them permission......if they do,  they get spoken to....they get left doing nothing.
If they start doing some training of their own accord they are spoken to...and told not to.
if they start working  on product improvement of their own accord, they are told to "not have ideas above their station", and stop doing it.

My point is that the British government is paying for all this inactivity...its throwing UK public  money down the drain....your money in many cases judging by the Flags here.

Given this fact, here is a better use of this  British government money...

https://massey276.wixsite.com/government

would you agree?

No. Of course not!

That URL refers to a page about "The  UK Government should fund a Switch Mode Power Supply  (SMPS) design and Manufacture industry in UK. " and other such twaddle which is remarkably similar to Treez' agenda and pontifications.

Since it is signed "Andy", should we infer that is treez' first name? (No, that isn't an invitation to dox him).

Anyway, I don't think Simon's banning you will cause this forum to lose anything useful.

[coppice]

I'd really love to work in one of the companies treez describes, but they don't exist. This is not the soviet union. Yes there are lazy people, but there are not swathes of people paid to willfully do nothing!

Companies like this have existed in the UK, but I think its mostly a bygone thing. In the early 80s I could have taken you to a certain canteen at a certain defence contractor which was full of people, mostly trained mechanics, drinking coffee all day, who were never expected to do a stroke of work.

[Simon]

I'd really love to work in one of the companies treez describes, but they don't exist. This is not the soviet union. Yes there are lazy people, but there are not swathes of people paid to willfully do nothing!

Companies like this have existed in the UK, but I think its mostly a bygone thing. In the early 80s I could have taken you to a certain canteen at a certain defence contractor which was full of people, mostly trained mechanics, drinking coffee all day, who were never expected to do a stroke of work.

I am aware that this could have been the case once, but not anymore.

[Simon]

Since it is signed "Andy", should we infer that is treez' first name? (No, that isn't an invitation to dox him).

Don't worry, it's an entirely stock website, even the contact details i suspect are those of wix. Is that the quality of industry we are to setup?

[Cerebus]

I'd really love to work in one of the companies treez describes, but they don't exist. This is not the soviet union. Yes there are lazy people, but there are not swathes of people paid to willfully do nothing!

Companies like this have existed in the UK, but I think its mostly a bygone thing. In the early 80s I could have taken you to a certain canteen at a certain defence contractor which was full of people, mostly trained mechanics, drinking coffee all day, who were never expected to do a stroke of work.

That was in the days of the Ministry of Defence offering "cost plus" contract terms, which basically meant you could spend whatever you wanted and would get that, plus a fixed percentage for 'reasonable profit', back from the MoD when you invoiced them. It invited behaviour from their suppliers that would be considered fraud under any other remuneration scheme. Those days are, thankfully, long gone.

[coppice]

That was in the days of the Ministry of Defence offering "cost plus" contract terms, which basically meant you could spend whatever you wanted and would get that, plus a fixed percentage for 'reasonable profit', back from the MoD when you invoiced them. It invited behaviour from their suppliers that would be considered fraud under any other remuneration scheme. Those days are, thankfully, long gone.

You really think it has gone? From the things I've seen since the 80s I think things have just morphed into a new way to suck at the public nipple. Does the F35 program look any less messed up that any 70s or 80s cost plus project?

[Kjelt]

Since the TS/OP is benched for two weeks and can no longer respond may I suggest locking this topic also for two weeks.

[Simon]

Since the TS/OP is benched for two weeks and can no longer respond may I suggest locking this topic also for two weeks.

The topic as he intended to discuss it would be deleted quite quickly. As it is here and not going down the tubes right now I have chosen to leave it.

[Simon]

That was in the days of the Ministry of Defence offering "cost plus" contract terms, which basically meant you could spend whatever you wanted and would get that, plus a fixed percentage for 'reasonable profit', back from the MoD when you invoiced them. It invited behaviour from their suppliers that would be considered fraud under any other remuneration scheme. Those days are, thankfully, long gone.

You really think it has gone? From the things I've seen since the 80s I think things have just morphed into a new way to suck at the public nipple. Does the F35 program look any less messed up that any 70s or 80s cost plus project?

We were talking UK, not America. The UK from what i know has cutback so much that there would be none of that and they don't give a toss where their kit comes from. Tho company i worked for once sold aic con gear to a vehicle builder abroad who then sold the vehicle back to the UK. We have not in a long time supplied the MoD directly and while anything military tends to have a higher price tag just for being military the military market itself is now highly competitive.

America on the other hand only buy gear from there own so there is little incentive to be competitive. Tho company I work for infact would love to get into the american market. We once supplied two systems to a project prototype that ended up in america and were told that they would not use one of our systems on the production because they wanted to use their own.

[MK14]

We were talking UK, not America. The UK from what i know has cutback so much that there would be none of that and they don't give a toss where their kit comes from. Tho company i worked for once sold aic con gear to a vehicle builder abroad who then sold the vehicle back to the UK. We have not in a long time supplied the MoD directly and while anything military tends to have a higher price tag just for being military the military market itself is now highly competitive.

America on the other hand only buy gear from there own so there is little incentive to be competitive. Tho company I work for infact would love to get into the american market. We once supplied two systems to a project prototype that ended up in america and were told that they would not use one of our systems on the production because they wanted to use their own.

On the one hand, I can understand, why America wants to make sure their military, is "home grown", as regards suppliers.
But on the other, NATO/Friendly countries, should also be able to supply some military stuff to America, as well.

America would probably gain from it, because (as you already mentioned), it can lower the price they would need to pay, and maybe in some cases, mean they get something better, or as good.
It may even help the fellow NATO/Friendly country, build up their military capabilities.

I guess that the American policy, could be right. As it means that you will have a strong, home grown, military supply base.

I suppose, it is quite a complicated issue, really.

In all fairness, there are often complaints, when the UK Government or military, buys stuff from non-UK sources. Especially, when the UK was able to supply it, and it was just to save a few pennies, that the order(s), were given to a foreign country.

E.g. A very big, UK passport order, being given to France, rather than the long established UK supplier.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43489462

[Simon]

Yes we gave orders for new trains to siemens in germany and the UK supplier made redundancies......

[Simon]

that UK supplier is in turn a customer of ours.....

[MK14]

that UK supplier is in turn a customer of ours.....

If those orders, had been placed in the UK (Passports, Trains, etc), then the UK (government), would have indirectly got some of the money back, because the UK companies would be paying UK taxes, UK VAT (where applicable), UK council bills, etc etc.

So it is very short sighted, to reject an order for (I don't know the real figures, so I made some up) £575,000,000 because a foreign firm will do it for £475,000,000.
Because there are so many ways the UK will rake back some of the £575,000,000 in taxes (and business rates), many jobs, other UK suppliers getting work/business, etc etc.

But, maybe from an economic point of view, they did the right thing ?

[Simon]

No idea, I only remember it making the news about 7 years ago.

[coppice]

We were talking UK, not America. The UK from what i know has cutback so much that there would be none of that and they don't give a toss where their kit comes from. Tho company i worked for once sold aic con gear to a vehicle builder abroad who then sold the vehicle back to the UK. We have not in a long time supplied the MoD directly and while anything military tends to have a higher price tag just for being military the military market itself is now highly competitive.

America on the other hand only buy gear from there own so there is little incentive to be competitive. Tho company I work for infact would love to get into the american market. We once supplied two systems to a project prototype that ended up in america and were told that they would not use one of our systems on the production because they wanted to use their own.

The biggest market for BAe Systems is supplying US defence contractors, who then supply the US and British governments, among others. The British government seldom buys proven off the shelf systems, and has a say in how things are developed. Things are very interwoven in the defence market.

[Simon]

Yes, but America is that big that it can source only internally if it wishes, the UK i suppose may not have all of the desired expertise.

[coppice]

Yes, but America is that big that it can source only internally if it wishes, the UK i suppose may not have all of the desired expertise.

The UK is bigger than France, and a lot bigger than Sweden. Both those countries maintain a high level of autonomy in the supply of their military systems. Even back in the 70s and 80s the biggest push we saw for local supply in UK defence companies was to maintain the ability to sell to governments the US wouldn't let us supply their technology to. I was offered a couple of jobs back then, engineering out US parts to broaden the potential market for a weapon system.

[MrMobodies]

Yes, but America is that big that it can source only internally if it wishes, the UK i suppose may not have all of the desired expertise.

The UK is bigger than France, and a lot bigger than Sweden. Both those countries maintain a high level of autonomy in the supply of their military systems. Even back in the 70s and 80s the biggest push we saw for local supply in UK defence companies was to maintain the ability to sell to governments the US wouldn't let us supply their technology to. I was offered a couple of jobs back then, engineering out US parts to broaden the potential market for a weapon system.

That reminds me of the case of Racal (now Vodafone) and Collins Radio when they were not given a license to build them and had to start their own.