Many UK Electronics engineers are doing nothing at work

[ocset]

Hi,
Many of my Electronics Engineer friends  in UK  are doing nothing whilst at  work they tell me.
There is no work coming in.
The company keep paying them, though not terribly much.

I must admit at many of the Electronics co's that i have been to, i was aware of  large numbers of UK electronics engineers not being given anything to do, and often they are moaning about it.

How do these companies manage to keep paying them to do nothing?

Does the UK government heavily  subsidize their wages.?

The most classic  and striking example of a member of staff doing nothing was when I was at Alstom in UK back in 2004…….one particular UK electronics guy used to come in to the office, plonk his bag on the table and not unpack it….pull his chair back from the table, then sit down but not pull his chair back to the table, and sit there facing the  floor for the rest of the day!!

[Echo88]

If they are as competent in their work as you, then its no wonder that their firms dont get orders.

[Ian.M]

And some *still* manage to do nothing even though they appear to be busy working at their desks and benches.

[Zero999]

If they were incompetent or thier firms weren't getting enough orders, they'd be sacked or made redundant eventually.

In some companies there is a cycle of lots of work, followed by nothing for awhile. They could hire contractors or give the work to another engineering firm, but I suspect it makes sense to have permanent staff, who are familiar with how the company operates. Employing contractors or giving the work to another company demands more than double the hourly rate, compared to a permanent member of staff., so it can make sense to hire someone and only use them 50% of the time.

[m98]

How much of an underachiever do you have to be, to be satisfied with just sitting around while doing nothing?
There is always something to do, to learn or to improve in a company.

[dmills]

Indeed, I cannot conceive of a circumstance under which a lack of immediate orders would correspond to no work for an engineer (Maybe for a production guy, but not in development).

I could probably spend a year with nothing further on my plate just tidying up software and documenting things, and I know there are at least half a dozen sort of defined projects that are just waiting for the bandwidth to get them done.

Even if management were not producing requests for new products (and it would be a fairly sad sack sort of product manager who did not have things they wanted designed over and above what R&D could manage), any engineer worthy of the name has a list of existing products that are causing a redesign itch. God knows I do!

Some very large companies do sometimes manage to end up in a rather dilbertesque tieup with the unions that can sometimes result in people being paid to be a bum on a seat, don't work for those guys, nothing good (or interesting) comes of it.

Regards, Dan.

[Domagoj T]

Uh, the only place I would expect people getting paid for no work is the government sector. From what I've seen, private companies tend to keep their employees occupied, especially small to mid sized ones.
I have a to do list with 12 items on it, and by replying to this thread I've realized it's not comprehensive. I could easily add two or three more items to it. Most of these are not projects that take months to complete, but some of them have been on the list for more than a year because other stuff got added and prioritized. 9 out of those 12 on the list involve electronics hardware and some will require a bit of software.
I'm not an EE, but 70% (rough estimate) of my work ends up being roughly that.
Oh and I'm not in UK, so why am I even replying to this thread??

[Ian.M]

Or that 'bum on seat' bag packed engineer may be rostered for emergency field suport, and in industries where a few minutes customer down time can cost thousands of dollars or have human safety implications, its probably worth paying an engineer to twiddle their thumbs if it even shaves two minutes off the emergency response time.   Of course *smart* management will let the on-call duty engineer read books to self-train or for entertainment while waiting for a callout . . .

[Zero999]

Indeed, I cannot conceive of a circumstance under which a lack of immediate orders would correspond to no work for an engineer (Maybe for a production guy, but not in development).

I could probably spend a year with nothing further on my plate just tidying up software and documenting things, and I know there are at least half a dozen sort of defined projects that are just waiting for the bandwidth to get them done.

Even if management were not producing requests for new products (and it would be a fairly sad sack sort of product manager who did not have things they wanted designed over and above what R&D could manage), any engineer worthy of the name has a list of existing products that are causing a redesign itch. God knows I do!

Some very large companies do sometimes manage to end up in a rather dilbertesque tieup with the unions that can sometimes result in people being paid to be a bum on a seat, don't work for those guys, nothing good (or interesting) comes of it.

Regards, Dan.

It depends on whether you're allowed to do any of that. If the boss doesn't want any modifications to existing software, designes, documentation etc. then there's not much you can do. You could start designing something new, but you won't get any appreciation for it or the budget to buy any materials for it and there will be no booking code to put your hours against on the time sheet.

I often spend awhile were I work with not much to do, so I research interesting things on the Internet and occasionally post here.

[basinstreetdesign]

I have been in that situation but I have to go back 30 years to remember it.  It was a spooky experience.  Few engineers complained about it but some did move on to other jobs.  My management at the time was broad-minded enough to allow us to work on whatever we wanted even if it was a personal project as long as it didn't cost the company any money.  Obviously they were making no money.  Cash was always tight. When payday came around there was literally a footrace by everybody to the bank to get their paycheck certified. Some didn't make it in time...the well was dry.

My business was the broadcast video industry and there were several large trade shows that our industry had to show at or lose market share.  The wish list of products was always long and making it to the show on time was always a race.

Once, I did work for the Canadian government and I can honestly say that is the only organization which can tolerate a lack of work for employees for the long term.  It was generally considered that if you had a Gov job you could not be fired and some people seriously flaunted that.

[floobydust]

Is this due to economic downturn in the UK, from Brexit-related drama?

[dmills]

The Brexit insanity is mostly still restricted to Westminster (where it is causing some of the best comedy in the house in years), it will undoubtedly cause all sorts of gyp, but we are really not seeing it yet (And in fact that the pound in the toilet is making exports wonderfully cheap, but my trip to Leipzig over Christmas expensive )....

There is actually plenty of work out there, to the point that we are finding that we have to process CVs and set up interviews FAST, because the good people are only on the market for a few days.

Regards, Dan. 

[tggzzz]

It is always worth examining the motivations behind a question and the credibility of whoever is posing the question. In this case that means the OP.

In that rather limited sense, post modern literary criticism (pomo litcrit) can have some value

[KJDS]

I've contracted at a lot of companies over the years. The fact that I was contracting there meant they were having a busy period. During quieter times then the permies weren't too rushed, but it's rare that anyone ever stays very lightly loaded for any length of time.

Having said that, I once spent seven months as a contractor waiting for a big design package to start, which was always between one and two weeks away. It's very hard work trying to be in an office for 40 hours a week when there's nothing to do.

Is this due to economic downturn in the UK, from Brexit-related drama?

If you read the other threads the OP has started, then you'll realize that the "drama" of this thread has nothing to do with brexit and a lot to do with the OP.

[ocset]

I wonder how these companies pay all these UK engineers to do nothing?
It must be from a government grant...in other words, the UK taxpayer is paying for it.

[ocset]

I often find that the  UK companies concerned just want the unoccupied engineers to sit  and do  nothing…the company certainly doesn’t want them to do any kind of training….likely because they are worried that if they do training they will learn new skills and possibly go and use those skills to procure employment somewhere else.
A friend told me that a company that was paying him to persistently do nothing got very upset when he told them he would like a reference to apply for other jobs….these companies just want  a good proportion of their engineers to sit and do nothing….bizarre!
Sometimes, the companies give the unoccupied engineers “duff” jobs……

…One ex-colleague from Alstom told me that he was once asked to investigate possible leaks coming out of cone-to-cone joints in an electric drive liquid cooling system.( Cone-to-cone joints are well known to be able to stop liquid hydrogen leaking out if they are assembled properly).....
....The company insisted that he  just stand  by the test jig all day for several weeks…every hour he had to unwrap  pieces of toilet tissue that he had wrapped round the outside of the cone-to-cone  joints in order to see if moisture specks were on the tissue (due to fluid having possibly  leaked out of the joints). It seemed ridiculous……..all that needed to be done was  to measure the amount of fluid in the test jig at the start….then leave it running for weeks…then re-measure the amount of fluid at the end of the few weeks.

[MK14]

I wonder how these companies pay all these UK engineers to do nothing?
It must be from a government grant...in other words, the UK taxpayer is paying for it.

You are 100% correct!
It is called the LED or L.E.D. grant.
Lazy Engineers Do (nothing) all day, grant.

[Gyro]

Sadly, treez carries such a large chip on his shoulder that nothing short of psychological help is likely to improve things.

If you look at his posting history, you will find that he starts such threads most weekends with anecdotes and 'experiences' of the UK Electronics industry. That and dodge LED lighting design related questions on the themes of 'no space to do it properly', 'fails EMC', 'gets too hot / blows up', 'why can the Chinese do it cheaper', 'Philips et-al are out to get me'.


Why do I care? Because it portrays the rest of us, with distinctly different and more professional experiences, in a bad light to those unfamiliar with the UK. 

 

[tggzzz]

Is this due to economic downturn in the UK, from Brexit-related drama?

If you read the other threads the OP has started, then you'll realize that the "drama" of this thread has nothing to do with brexit and a lot to do with the OP.

That does seem to be the case. Unfortunately too many people accept the OP's question's presumptions without that context.

[tggzzz]

Sadly, treez carries such a large chip on his shoulder that nothing short of psychological help is likely to improve things.

If you look at his posting history, you will find that he starts such threads most weekends with anecdotes and 'experiences' of the UK Electronics industry. That and dodge LED lighting design related questions on the themes of 'no space to do it properly', 'fails EMC', 'gets too hot / blows up', 'why can the Chinese do it cheaper', 'Philips et-al are out to get me'.

Why do I care? Because it portrays the rest of us, with distinctly different and more professional experiences, in a bad light to those unfamiliar with the UK. 

Agreed.

His posts might have been mildly amusing once, but they are becoming repetitive and tiresome.

[chris_leyson]

How much of an underachiever do you have to be, to be satisfied with just sitting around while doing nothing?
There is always something to do, to learn or to improve in a company.

I couldn't agree more, it's quite difficult for an engineer to sit around doing nothing. Right now we're working on the next generation of product, taking into account lessons learn from the last generation, so no time to sit around doing nothing.

[coppice]

How much of an underachiever do you have to be, to be satisfied with just sitting around while doing nothing?
There is always something to do, to learn or to improve in a company.

I couldn't agree more, it's quite difficult for an engineer to sit around doing nothing. Right now we're working on the next generation of product, taking into account lessons learn from the last generation, so no time to sit around doing nothing.

I think this depends a lot on whether the job market is good or bad. Only a fool would walk out of a bad job when the alternative is no job at all.

[Kjelt]

I do not recognize the OPs situation.
Going to the end of the year the budgets for next year need to be made so managers are busy with their hoolahoop dances on higher levels to grab the budgets they can.
The engineers that have no direct project to work on have lots of options:
- update the technical documentation
- investigate returns / failures from the field
- learning from other designs from colleagues or competitors
- R&D new stuff or lowering BOM
There are not much xtra costs involved, so
No excuse for any engineer to start picking their nose.

[tggzzz]

How much of an underachiever do you have to be, to be satisfied with just sitting around while doing nothing?
There is always something to do, to learn or to improve in a company.

I couldn't agree more, it's quite difficult for an engineer to sit around doing nothing. Right now we're working on the next generation of product, taking into account lessons learn from the last generation, so no time to sit around doing nothing.

I think this depends a lot on whether the job market is good or bad. Only a fool would walk out of a bad job when the alternative is no job at all.

Er, yes - but your comment has no useful relationship to finding a way to not sit around foing nothing. Doubly so when that activity could enable you to re-skill yourself for another job!

[ocset]

These unoccupied UK staff are not allowed to do anything unless their boss gives them permission......if they do,  they get spoken to....they get left doing nothing.
If they start doing some training of their own accord they are spoken to...and told not to.
if they start working  on product improvement of their own accord, they are told to "not have ideas above their station", and stop doing it.

My point is that the British government is paying for all this inactivity...its throwing UK public  money down the drain....your money in many cases judging by the Flags here.

Given this fact, here is a better use of this  British government money...

https://massey276.wixsite.com/government

would you agree?