Magnets

[EvilLOON]

Hey guys, what do we know about magnetic motors?  Trying to read up on these things.  Finding fact in the piles of fiction is just blowing my mind.  Every one claiming free energy or perpetual motion. 

Answer appreciated and also any reading material is welcomed.

[Len]

Hey guys, what do we know about magnetic motors?

Start with these two facts:
1. All electric motors use magnetism.
2. Any device offering free energy or perpetual motion is bullshit.

[rolycat]

Hey guys, what do we know about magnetic motors?

Start with these two facts:
1. All electric motors use magnetism.
2. Any device offering free energy or perpetual motion is bullshit.

You need to be more careful about your "facts". For example, electrostatic motors don't use magnetism, and a solar panel is a very practical device offering free energy.

For the OP, using Wikipedia instead of YouTube as your information source would be a start.

[Len]

You need to be more careful about your "facts". For example, electrostatic motors don't use magnetism, and a solar panel is a very practical device offering free energy.

Yeah, ok on the electrostatic motor, but "free energy" does NOT mean solar energy or wind energy or your parents pay the electricity bill. When EvilLOON reads about "free energy" on the internet it means energy from nothing and it is a scam.

[EEVblog]

a solar panel is a very practical device offering free energy.

Rubbish. A solar panel is a circa 20% efficient converter of solar insolation into electrical energy.
"Free energy" means a system where "more energy out than put in", "over unity", "perpetual motion" etc, and always involves breaking the known practical laws of physics. If it's not breaking the known practical laws of physics then it's just called "engineering".

[rockets4kids]

The key word there being *converter* of energy!

Also, one thing people often forget is the amount of energy that goes into the production of solar panels.  That actually represents a substantial percentage of their costs.

Furthermore, it is always important to look at the payout on solar systems.  Historically, when panels were more expensive and electricity was cheaper, your typical break-even point was 15 years.  And that figure generally doesn't include the cost of storage batteries.

[BennVenn]

Well while we're on the topic of free energy...

Water evaporates at temperatures far below its boiling point. This is due to random collisions giving other molecules their own kinetic energy allowing a phase change to occur? Does this mean the vapour being liberated is at a higher temperature than the water itself? And the liquid at a lower temp?

[rolycat]

a solar panel is a very practical device offering free energy.

Rubbish. A solar panel is a circa 20% efficient converter of solar insolation into electrical energy.

Not rubbish. Look up "Free energy" on Wikipedia and the pseudoscientific coinage is number three, after its uses in science and the economic sense of renewable energy.

The scam artists and fruitcakes misuse a number of legitimate scientific expressions through ignorance and/or cupidity; that doesn't mean we should abandon them.

[IanB]

You need to be more careful about your "facts". For example, electrostatic motors don't use magnetism, ...

This is pointless pedantry. Within the general meaning of electric motors, as found universally in refrigerators, washing machines, electric drills, DVD players, cooling fans, cars, trains, cordless screwdrivers, escalators, and who knows what else, all use magnetism. Please don't be a jerk.

[rolycat]

You need to be more careful about your "facts". For example, electrostatic motors don't use magnetism, ...

This is pointless pedantry. Within the general meaning of electric motors, as found universally in refrigerators, washing machines, electric drills, DVD players, cooling fans, cars, trains, cordless screwdrivers, escalators, and who knows what else, all use magnetism. Please don't be a jerk.

I know I'm a pedant, but I have no wish to be a jerk. I'd just like to point out that there are far more electrostatic motors in the world than electromagnetic ones 

[calexanian]

Here is a nice page on AC motor operation
http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/resources-for-engineers/ac-motors/principle-of-operation

And here is the counterpart site discussing DC motors. The whole site in good as a matter of fact.

http://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/resources-for-engineers/dc-motors/principle-of-operation

[IanB]

Also a couple of nice "how it works" videos here:

https://youtu.be/-qS85aIvleQ

https://youtu.be/GNTvWxl3Isw

[BennVenn]

I know I'm a pedant, but I have no wish to be a jerk. I'd just like to point out that there are far more electrostatic motors in the world than electromagnetic ones 

OK, I'll bite. Examples please?

[coppice]

a solar panel is a very practical device offering free energy.

Rubbish. A solar panel is a circa 20% efficient converter of solar insolation into electrical energy.
"Free energy" means a system where "more energy out than put in", "over unity", "perpetual motion" etc, and always involves breaking the known practical laws of physics. If it's not breaking the known practical laws of physics then it's just called "engineering".

Rubbish. Free energy means I get out more than I put in. Don't let the crazy people co-opt basic expressions in the English language. Its free if you ain't paying for it, either in cash or consequential damage.

[Tinkerer]

Regardless of their intent, I have heard of a couple arrangements of magents that cause motion, but it seems to demagnetize them in the process. Energy comes from somewhere, in this case by draining the magnets? Dont know, best I heard havent researched it.

[calexanian]

Hey guys, what do we know about magnetic motors?  Trying to read up on these things.  Finding fact in the piles of fiction is just blowing my mind.  Every one claiming free energy or perpetual motion. 

Answer appreciated and also any reading material is welcomed.

What are the signs you are being trolled?
1. The OPs name EvilLOON? Hmm suggestive but not conclusive on it's own. It could be ironic.
2. The low post count? Also not conclusive and we welcome new members.
3. Ending with a direct call for responses? Getting warmer.
4. Posting about "free energy" on a forum where this is a hot button issue? Getting warmer still.
5. Vague topic title. Nice touch.

Missing is a confident assertion about something that is wrong. That is to capture the people who like to denounce someone publicly for being wrong.

Just as any good fisherman knows. It is not just about the bait on your hook. It is also the presentation to the fish and the choice of location.

+1

[SeanB]

Well while we're on the topic of free energy...

Water evaporates at temperatures far below its boiling point. This is due to random collisions giving other molecules their own kinetic energy allowing a phase change to occur? Does this mean the vapour being liberated is at a higher temperature than the water itself? And the liquid at a lower temp?

Yes, the energy of the molecules assumes a distribution about a mean value, which in the bulk water we call temperature. As the molecules with the higher energy leave the liquid to vapour the average energy of the remainder drops, which means the temperature is lower.  Also called evaporative cooling, and can be assisted by having air flowing ofer a water surface to reduce the vapour pressure on the interface so more molecules can leave with only a small energy excess from the bulk.

[ranch varment]

Look man, if you dont think a magnet moves by its own fruition for eternity, I guess you just dont believe your eyes.

Here, think of this,  if magnets werent perpetual energy, your fridge magnets would eventually slip off, and i dont think that happens.

So you lot dont know how illogical you are being.

[hamster_nz]

Look man, if you dont think a magnet moves by its own fruition for eternity, I guess you just dont believe your eyes.

Here, think of this,  if magnets werent perpetual energy, your fridge magnets would eventually slip off, and i dont think that happens.

So you lot dont know how illogical you are being.

Oh, so glue is perpetual energy? As is sticky tape and bluetac :-)

[IanB]

Oh, so glue is perpetual energy? As is sticky tape and bluetac :-)

And gravity of course...

[rolycat]

I know I'm a pedant, but I have no wish to be a jerk. I'd just like to point out that there are far more electrostatic motors in the world than electromagnetic ones 

OK, I'll bite. Examples please?

You've got billions of examples inside you right now. Bacterial flagella are driven by a rotary motor which spins at around 20,000 rpm. They are incredibly efficient nanomachines which are powered by an electrochemical ion pump. This creates an electric charge difference between stator and rotor which together with the differential ion concentration creates a motive force. The exact mechanism is still not well understood, but it seems to be a kind of electrostatic proton turbine.

[Galenbo]

Not rubbish. Look up xxx on Wikipedia ...

Said the noob to the scientist, the noob uses his own definition of energy, and changes that definition when needed.

Rubbish. Free energy means I get out more than I put in. Don't let the crazy people co-opt basic expressions in the English language. Its free if you ain't paying for it, either in cash or consequential damage.

I can give you the address where there's free energy for you.
It's an all-in hotel, when we arrived we discovered there is electricity in the wall, and we didn't have to pay for it.

[EvilLOON]

Ok back to point guys.  What I was asking is can a magnet drive a motor.   Magnets like anything else do have a life span. What I'm trying to find is facts.  I don't believe in free energy.   I appreciate the feedback I have received from people on the site up to this point. The site seems like a good place to have intelligent, open, and fact filled discussions. By no means was the post meant to be a troll.
 
"Every one is claiming free energy or perpetual motion  ", is how that should have read. When you even type stuff like "magnetic motor", into  google, you get a heaps of lies and fiction about magnetically driven motors. I do not believe in any form of "free" energy. I am truly curious, if a simple motor could be built with magnets.
  Can you propel a magnet around a circle with other magnets? That was the question.  I do know magnets do loose their field over time and that under other magnet forces they will become demagnetized.

I type short posts generally because I have nerve damage in my right hand.  I went from typing 90 wpm to about 20. EvilLOON has been my screen name since 1997, and can easily be searched to see I am  a real person.

[BennVenn]

Well while we're on the topic of free energy...

Water evaporates at temperatures far below its boiling point. This is due to random collisions giving other molecules their own kinetic energy allowing a phase change to occur? Does this mean the vapour being liberated is at a higher temperature than the water itself? And the liquid at a lower temp?

Yes, the energy of the molecules assumes a distribution about a mean value, which in the bulk water we call temperature. As the molecules with the higher energy leave the liquid to vapour the average energy of the remainder drops, which means the temperature is lower.  Also called evaporative cooling, and can be assisted by having air flowing ofer a water surface to reduce the vapour pressure on the interface so more molecules can leave with only a small energy excess from the bulk.

Does the vapour loose its gained energy once it leaves the water? Is the vapour cooler, warmer or the same temperature as the water it came from?

Rolycat, 20,000RPM!? I would imagine the drag on the outer surface of the spinning part would be enormous - have such a large surface area to volume ratio that is...

[Galenbo]

I am truly curious, if a simple motor could be built with magnets.

If you are truly curious, you can put a proportionally truly effort in studying existing motors.

The first page on Google won't transfer you to a list of decent literature and study books on the topic, at least not with a short search term.

I can give you a tip: Lookup what books of what autors are used by universities. Most of them cover multiple AC and DC motors, and explain differences between them, in construction, use , performance and rendability.
Some words you will bump into are induction motor, bldc, slipring, synchrone motor, servo, steppermotor, and so on.

If you have the right prior knowledge about math, physics and electrics, then after only 100 hours of dedicated study you will understand the basics. Then it's time to deepen out, or to see if you can change or invent something.