Logitech new business model - own nothing & be happy with subscription

[IanB]

It is fine, it is not like there is lack of decent mice. Although my current mouse is Logitech and I love it, there is zero chance I'm paying for a subscription.

And really, the only reason my mouse is Logitech is that I have not bothered to look for mice with similar features from other vendors. I can't see how this is a good idea to force your customers do market research.

Good luck with finding other decent mice.

I have, from time to time, done intensive mouse searches, and I keep coming back to Logitech. I have had good Microsoft mice in the past, but they were either discontinued, or broke. Also, Microsoft has been withdrawing from the hardware business.

Gaming mice exist, but they tend to be really expensive.

Overall, when I use Logitech mice (and keyboards, they are also excellent) they ask me to install the special Logitech software. I usually say "no" and use the default USB drivers. A subscription charge will make me even more likely to say "no".

I had to deliberately uninstall one Logitech driver recently, because it was causing a blue screen on my work computer. If your computer blue screens, 90% of the time it is a faulty driver, the other 10% it is failing hardware.

The golden mantra of engineering is "add simplicity". Adding simplicity means no special software, no AI, no Copilot, no unwanted "clever stuff". People call me "old", and that I need to get "with it", and join the Gen Z crowd. No thank you. I will use things if they are useful, not because they are fashionable.

[coppercone2]

You know I read that woman's interview again. That just makes me ... well angry.    I don't know how else to describe it. Grrrrr. I need a drink I guess to calm down. Where have all the inventors gone? 

there is a lack of innovation and the innovation becomes essentially over management. They don't notice it, but the external observer notices that the offerings basically the same thing with fancy packaging, arranging and assurances

[SiliconWizard]

AI is all the innovation now!

[coppercone2]

Ai is management . IMO often of complex tools that have poor UI

[floobydust]

MBA's are neurotic, insecure and demand "recurring revenue" so they know a steady amount of subscription money is going to be coming in. Instead of the scary unknown when the quarterly financials come in, the phobia over "will we meet expected earnings?". Poor Wall Street clowns can't take the unknown, the undefined.

Logitech isn't anything special - many companies making mice and keyboards. Some of their mice/keyboards I've used are terrible, not ergonomic and poor wireless range/performance. Their gaming mice are $200. M325 wireless poor range and kept cutting out. Tried to get parts for a Logitech $300 gaming headset and nope, toss it in the garbage is the support you'll get.
They could innovate and make some great new products instead of all the resources going into the pivot to your rental mouse like a HP inkjet printer lol.


Investors are already realizing AI is like the dot.com bust - it's another boom and then the bust. Fueled by hype. How do you monetize AI? Where are the profits?
How can AI extract cash from the People? Until that question comes up, AI everywhere!

[gabiz_ro]

Why would I want to speak to a mouse when it is inherently tied to a PC that can already do all that?

It looks like in Star Trek history it was the case
https://youtu.be/hShY6xZWVGE?si=rNQCzmvVamlXKiDd

[ebastler]

"We have come to the painful realization that our mice last too long -- despite our best efforts to use cheap buttons. How are we going to make enough money?! We have considered adding non-replaceable LiPo batteries or other short-lived components, but prefer the revolutionary idea of charging a subscription fee."

 

[MK14]

The reality is (as I understand it), this has happened, often with a number of things, in the past.

E.g. A very long time ago, a computer printer (Dot-matrix) was a genuine item.
You paid perhaps £200/$200 for the printer, and occasionally something like £5/$5 for a new ink ribbon.

The greedy printer businesses, decided they were not happy with that way of doing business.

So, they sold the printers (then ink-jet), for perhaps £50/$50.  But charged perhaps £20/$20 for each ink colour cartridge, which only had an all too small, amount of actual ink in it.  So, 20 .. 50 (or some amount) of printed pages later, the cartridge(s) would need renewing.

Cheap projectors, but the replacement bulbs cost hundreds of pounds/dollars, and only last, perhaps 500 or a thousand hours, each.

Reportedly, there are such schemes for Razors (wet ones), where the handles are amazingly cheap but the replacement blade things, are expensive.

Reportedly, Microsoft, is doing stuff like that, with Windows 11.  It shows adverts which say something like, let me backup your computer.
Then as soon as you exceed/reach 5 GB, it insists you have to pay a monthly subscription.

So, perhaps mice are heading in the same direction.

[ebastler]

So, they sold the printers (then ink-jet), for perhaps £50/$50.  But charged perhaps £20/$20 for each ink colour cartridge, which only had an all too small, amount of actual ink in it.  So, 20 .. 50 (or some amount) of printed pages later, the cartridge(s) would need renewing.

Cheap projectors, but the replacement bulbs cost hundreds of pounds/dollars, and only last, perhaps 500 or a thousand hours, each.

Reportedly, there are such schemes for Razors (wet ones), where the handles are amazingly cheap but the replacement blade things, are expensive.

I am sure they had brainstorming sessions at Logitech to come up with consumables for mice!

Like those fancy electric razors with cleaning stations, whose only purpose seems to be that they consume a proprietary cleaning fluid. Lest the poor manufacturers would have to wait two full years until the customer buys a new shaving head...

[MK14]

I am sure they had brainstorming sessions at Logitech to come up with consumables for mice!

A new type of OLED RGB, flashing lights inside the mouse.  Which needs 'Organic LED fluid', refills every week, to keep them well oiled and vitalized.

This (mouse) OLED Organic fluid refill, costs less than a full tank of car fuel, each week, so not too expensive. (Joke advertising slogan).

If/when electric cars, become much more common-place.  Some kind of road distance subscription/charging scheme, may come in to play.  To make up for the lack of fuel duties, in some countries.

"Your brand new Logitech Mouse, comes with, free (yes absolutely FREE), 35 days worth of usage (cleverly checked by this patented high security chip, inside the mouse).  After which we have generously kept the subscription costs, down, to affordable levels, by most rich peoples standards."
{Joke advert, made up by me}.

[ebastler]

My favorite in the "Let's go subscription!" category is BMW's plan to charge a subscription fee for activating the pre-installed heated car seats. Good to see that customers just wouldn't have that and common sense prevailed: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated-seat-subscription-microtransaction

[tszaboo]

"We have come to the painful realization that our mice last too long -- despite our best efforts to use cheap buttons. How are we going to make enough money?! We have considered adding non-replaceable LiPo batteries or other short-lived components, but prefer the revolutionary idea of charging a subscription fee."

 

What they are doing now is the rubber coating. It's 100% intentional that it's on all the high end mice nowadays and it's the first thing to go. My mouse at home has maybe 2-3 years lifetime before it looks like a dog chew on it. This seems to be constant across their high end range.
It's not difficult to make a high end mouse last almost forever. We can already do that with keyboards. There is a large community of keyboard builders, that will use machined aluminium cases, custom layouts, high end mechanical switches to customize they keyboard to your own liking, and custom color keycaps.
I can totally see this happening to computer mice. There are SLS printers that can print objects that are nice to touch. Or after a nice shape is found (reverse engineered) a community of people can throw together the money for an injection mould. This is not rocket science, and they don't have monopoly on the high end mouse market.

If logitech goes this subscription model, so be it, no more sales to me. Same for printers, I went paperless.
You are not going to charge me money for these things. Screw your agenda WEF.

[coromonadalix]

Logitech softwares who tries to install itself in win11 when you have their peripherals ...

[MK14]

My favorite in the "Let's go subscription!" category is BMW's plan to charge a subscription fee for activating the pre-installed heated car seats. Good to see that customers just wouldn't have that and common sense prevailed: https://www.theverge.com/2023/9/7/23863258/bmw-cancel-heated-seat-subscription-microtransaction

There was huge outcries, when Intel was discussing, having some CPU features, that could be enabled (after purchase), by paying Intel money, to allow/enable, extra features.

This was largely hated by users (comments, fortunately before they actually implemented it for real).  Because in effect, you would have to pay for your CPUs, twice.  Once to the seller, and a second time, when enabling the extra features.

I'm happy for Logitech, to sell differing priced mice.

E.g. a Cheap one for £6, and an all singing and dancing, feature packed one for £60.  Users can then choose, which suits their preferences and use cases, best.

But, subscriptions are no good, because if the subscription was £10/month, and you keep/use the mouse for 10 years.

That would be £10 x 12 months x 10 years = £1,200 plus the subscription costs, may go up, in time.

£1,200 is ridiculous!

But I get the impression, that not everyone realizes how much subscriptions can mount up to, in the longer term.

[Nominal Animal]

Oh well.  I suppose future me has to construct my own mice, too...  a nice wood burl, maybe?  I like beeswaxed baltic birch.

The annoying part is the sensors and the lenses, they're not at all easy to obtain for a hobbyist.  PixArt only sells to large vendors.  There are some AliExpress/eBay sellers; standard warnings apply.

[xrunner]

Remember the other "trick" they all use - autorenewing subscriptions -

Yes dear Logitech customers - we have removed another hassle in your life - having to renew the subscription to your forever mouse (or fill in the blank ______ ). Doesn't a Forever Mouse deserve a Forever Subscription? We have made it so for you! You have such busy lives that and we have worked hard to remove this task for your convenience. Your Forever Mouse subscription will auto-renew unless you email (sorry no phone number) our friendly and courteous help line and cancel. ¹


1. Cancelling comes with a 20% processing fee and must be done within 24 hours of the official subscription end date other terms apply please read the terms and conditions attached with your forever mouse subscription. Cancelling outside of the window will attach a 50% fee. This subscription is non-transferable.

[themadhippy]

It's not difficult to make a high end mouse last almost forever.

Microsoft seemed to have manage it,my everyday driver is one of there trackballs thats  over 25 years old.

[Bud]

Why stop with mice, do keyboards/keypads too, the display or the power cord. Put an authentication chip in the power cord, done.

[madires]

What they are doing now is the rubber coating. It's 100% intentional that it's on all the high end mice nowadays and it's the first thing to go. My mouse at home has maybe 2-3 years lifetime before it looks like a dog chew on it.

And after a few years more that rubber coating becomes a sticky mess. I had this pleasure with a Logitech trackball. BTW, if you're looking for a wired trackball check out Elecom. Some models have an extra button for changing the DPI value while being pressed (great for CAD/CAE). I guess I won't buy any Logitech stuff in the future because of declining product quality, poor price-performance ratio, and the subscription nonsense they are thinking about.

[IanB]

On my Microsoft mouse, when that soft rubber coating deteriorated it got inside the bearing of the mouse wheel and stopped it from turning smoothly, which rendered the mouse useless. Very annoying.

[tom66]

I have a simple business model for Logitech: if they do this I will own nothing of theirs & they will not get my subscription.

I do own a few Logitech products and, barring some misuse on my part (spills and dropped keyboards) they seem to be reasonably resilient.  If the major cause of death for these products is in fact external factors, I can't see how a subscription model solves things.  Sure, there are possibly a few keyboards with worn keys and mice with broken buttons, but those take quite some time to set in if the manufacturer has put even half-decent components in them.

[coppice]

The major cause of Logitech mice failures are:

• They can't stick the slippery feet on properly, for anything but the most expensive mice. Once you lose those the mouse just won't slide well.
• The combination of the button switches they use, and some lousy debouncing techniques, mean the buttons start double clicking on a single press.

I can see a subscription feet service working, but subscription replacement of the switches seems like a problem.

[pdenisowski]

Why would I want to speak to a mouse when it is inherently tied to a PC that can already do all that?

It looks like in Star Trek history it was the case
https://youtu.be/hShY6xZWVGE?si=rNQCzmvVamlXKiDd

Dang!  Beat me to it.   That's one of the best scenes in the "original" Star Trek movies

[IanB]

The major cause of Logitech mice failures are:

• They can't stick the slippery feet on properly, for anything but the most expensive mice. Once you lose those the mouse just won't slide well.
• The combination of the button switches they use, and some lousy debouncing techniques, mean the buttons start double clicking on a single press.

Interesting. I have never had any of those failures on my Logitech mice.

[metrologist]

I remember a  long ago interview with Bill Gates discussing why you should continue to pay for his software - because it's doing work for you.

Then I considered benign tools like screwdrivers and hammers are doing work for me too.

And now we have cordless power tools that need to be activated before they will function and I expect they will also take up the subscription model.