Couldn't you make a film camera that was silent by rotating an array of lenses?

[ELS122]

So instead of moving to the next frame, "stopping" the film for the exposure time, and then moving to the next frame. Instead move the film continuously and have a rotating array of lenses that follows the light to each frame without needing to stop the film on every time? Thereby making the camera near silent.

[mikeselectricstuff]

So instead of moving to the next frame, "stopping" the film for the exposure time, and then moving to the next frame. Instead move the film continuously and have a rotating array of lenses that follows the light to each frame without needing to stop the film on every time? Thereby making the camera near silent.

This is how some high-speed film cameras worked, using prisms or mirrors. You probably still need a shutter though

[vad]

Even the slightest speed mismatch, jitter, film movement in a direction perpendicular to the plane of prism rotation, or lack of film flatness during motion would degrade image quality. Resolving all these mechanical issues is possible, but it would entail enormous complexity and cost, making it impractical for the mass consumer market.

[ELS122]

Even the slightest speed mismatch, jitter, film movement in a direction perpendicular to the plane of prism rotation, or lack of film flatness during motion would degrade image quality. Resolving all these mechanical issues is possible, but it would entail enormous complexity and cost, making it impractical for the mass consumer market.

I meant for like the film industry not for the consumer market. Since many people complain how imax cameras are so loud it's impossible to record any audio on set, seeing as those cameras are very expensive already it would seem logical to use something like this if it made them more silent.

[vad]

Well, IMAX is focused on achieving the highest possible image quality. It's likely unfeasible to achieve the same level of quality using a continuously moving film without making the camera excessively large, heavy, expensive, or unreliable.

[TimFox]

Rotary disc shutters are often used for motion-picture cameras:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_disc_shutter

[vad]

According to Wikipedia, the noise from IMAX cameras originates from the vacuum system. The vacuum is applied to the backplate to maintain the flatness of the tremendously large film frame during exposure.

In the case of a hypothetical camera with a continuously moving large format film, the challenge of ensuring film flatness would still need to be addressed, now for a moving film frame. This would require either finding an alternative solution without a vacuum or using the same noisy vacuum system.

[TimFox]

Note that “full” IMAX cameras transport medium-format film (70 mm, similar to 2-1/4 inch 120 still film) horizontally through the camera, rather than the vertical transport in conventional movie cameras.

There is an interesting panoramic film still camera (modern version sold as “Widelux”, q.v.) that pivots the lens mechanically to cover roughly 150 deg.

[ELS122]

According to Wikipedia, the noise from IMAX cameras originates from the vacuum system. The vacuum is applied to the backplate to maintain the flatness of the tremendously large film frame during exposure.

In the case of a hypothetical camera with a continuously moving large format film, the challenge of ensuring film flatness would still need to be addressed, now for a moving film frame. This would require either finding an alternative solution without a vacuum or using the same noisy vacuum system.

Well couldn't you use a centrifugal pump instead of a reciprocating one? Which could be designed to be much more silent. Or a screw type, or any other non-reciprocating pump.

[TimFox]

What type of vacuum pump is used here now?
For this application, one does not need a “high” vacuum (very low absolute pressure) but a high pumping speed to pump air against a high leak around the film handling.

[ELS122]

Note that “full” IMAX cameras transport medium-format film (70 mm, similar to 2-1/4 inch 120 still film) horizontally through the camera, rather than the vertical transport in conventional movie cameras.

There is an interesting panoramic film still camera (modern version sold as “Widelux”, q.v.) that pivots the lens mechanically to cover roughly 150 deg.

Yeah so looking at videos showcasing the mechanism of those cameras it seems there isnt even any rotating lenses, instead it's using a drum shutter and that's enough to have a continuously moving film.
So why not do this in an IMAX camera? but instead of "rewinding" the drum, just rotate it continuously 360 degrees, that wouldn't require the film to "pause" on each frame.

[TimFox]

How would you “delimit” the frames from each other?

[ELS122]

How would you “delimit” the frames from each other?

Well by the drum shutter of course, but since it's not a disc shutter it wouldn't distort the image if the film was continuously moving.

[Siwastaja]

So instead of moving to the next frame, "stopping" the film for the exposure time, and then moving to the next frame. Instead move the film continuously and have a rotating array of lenses that follows the light to each frame without needing to stop the film on every time? Thereby making the camera near silent.

This is how some high-speed film cameras worked, using prisms or mirrors. You probably still need a shutter though

Yes, and film editing tables, too, to project the image on a screen in continuous film motion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steenbeck#/media/File:Steenbeck_16mm_flatbed_ST_921_(6498601571).jpg (I had the same model as pictured lying around, but gave it away. It was nonfunctional due to so much aged electronics, poor connections, capacitors etc.)

In this use case, small amount of image distortion, jitter etc. is not a problem at all.

[mendip_discovery]

They can get up to 120db but reading an article in them they also state they use a rotating mirror to record sound...odd but I'm not a camera tech. But the sound they record is really high quality.

I think that loud cameras on set is nothing new, they just had different solutions to it back then. I wonder if it's the directors who are great visionaries but as nobody will tell them no so they want to do a wide shot and a close up but don't want any of the sound gear or film gear anywhere near the set.

I thought with the size of microphones they could hide many on set to get good sound.

[Alex Eisenhut]

So instead of moving to the next frame, "stopping" the film for the exposure time, and then moving to the next frame. Instead move the film continuously and have a rotating array of lenses that follows the light to each frame without needing to stop the film on every time? Thereby making the camera near silent.

IIRC that's exactly how very high-speed film cameras worked, like in the 1980s. I remember seeing some sort of lab footage from a "Star Wars" SDI experiment, and there was a vrooooup! sound just before the test, later I found out that's the rotating prism of the high-speed camera.

[ELS122]

They can get up to 120db but reading an article in them they also state they use a rotating mirror to record sound...odd but I'm not a camera tech. But the sound they record is really high quality.

I think that loud cameras on set is nothing new, they just had different solutions to it back then. I wonder if it's the directors who are great visionaries but as nobody will tell them no so they want to do a wide shot and a close up but don't want any of the sound gear or film gear anywhere near the set.

I thought with the size of microphones they could hide many on set to get good sound.

Well you don't hear the noise because they rarely record any audio on set, instead it's voice-overs in post production, prop sounds, etc.