I.C.E. DMMs(Italian).

[eternal_noob]

Anyone have knowledge about these meters?
They have a very interesting form factor in my opinion. A mix between a Bench Top and a hand-held it seems like. The performance doesn't look to bad, and reasonably priced too, but I could probably find a cheaper foreign source if I looked harder. I am tempted to buy one.
Sorry this is the only data I could find at the moment:
https://www.elfa.se/elfa3~eu_en/elfa/init.do?item=76-045-72&toc=19049

[zaoka]

Good friend of mine had those analog meters made by ICE, he was so impressed with them that he bought one for each of his technicians. They had very large dial... I was looking for one but could not find it at that time

[eternal_noob]

My understanding is that I.C.E. (or ICE) have made some hefty quality instruments in the past. Maybe these DMMs are made in China for what I know. That doesn't necessary mean that the quality is bad of course..
I'm also seeking general input and/or advice, so come on peeps.

[Bored@Work]

Good friend of mine had those analog meters made by ICE, he was so impressed with them that he bought one for each of his technicians. They had very large dial... I was looking for one but could not find it at that time

The I.C.E. 680 supertester series. First introduced in the market in the 1960th, and still in production and available as new, e.g.

680G  http://www.ebay.it/itm/MULTIMETRO-ANALOGICO-ICE-680G-IV-SERIE-/140656502900 or

680R  http://www.ebay.it/itm/MULTIMETRO-ANALOGICO-ICE-680R-VII-SERIE-/140656500793

[alm]

My impressions from the first link: who would buy a manual ranging meter in this day and age? An unfused current input? Elfa claims IEC 61010 CAT ratings, but none are printed on the front. Interesting how it's supposed to be CAT II 1000V, but max AC voltage is 750V. Elfa also claims that the 20A input is fused, while 'UNFUSED' is clearly stated on the front. They also state I= max is 10A, while the picture shows 20A. So the Elfa specs don't appear to match the picture, and I doubt that the quality will exceed its price point, i.e. crap.

[eternal_noob]

Well, I have AR and MR meters, have used both types throughout many years, and I don't mind any of them. I'll guess it's a matter of taste..
Yup, I see there are some discrepancies on the voltage ratings.

I finally found their website.
http://www.icestrumentazione.it/ProdMultDigit.html

[ciccio]

I had a very limited experience with the digital ICE multimeters (one of my  suppliers uses them and sometimes I play with them when I visit his lab), and the only thing I can point out is that they can be compared with other similar meters on the market, but with a bigger display and a bulkier case. They seem robust and reliable.
What counts here is the company's reputation: we had ICE multimeters at school, in 1965, and they were the "standard" multimeters in Italy (only the richer guys or the snobs used AVO or Simpson or some German one).
The 680 series models (still in production to-day, after 50 years) were easily broken by us students  but easily repaired by our teachers.
The company is a serious one: they stand behind their products and offer spares and repair service, when needed.
I don't know if this series is made in Italy or in China or in another Country. If needed I can check, after the holidays, or you can check directly by writing them :info@icestrumentazione.it
Best regards and best wishes for an happy and prosperous and safe 2012.

[eternal_noob]

Thanks Ciccio, and I mirror your wishes for the new year.
Maybe I will try to contact them. I have not decided anything yet, but if I'm going for this meter I will have to find another source, because ELFA has doubled the price again (As usual. Not long ago these SOBs tried to sell plain dipped mica caps for fifteen times normal price).

[Neilm]

My impressions from the first link: who would buy a manual ranging meter in this day and age? An unfused current input? Elfa claims IEC 61010 CAT ratings, but none are printed on the front. Interesting how it's supposed to be CAT II 1000V, but max AC voltage is 750V. Elfa also claims that the 20A input is fused, while 'UNFUSED' is clearly stated on the front. They also state I= max is 10A, while the picture shows 20A. So the Elfa specs don't appear to match the picture, and I doubt that the quality will exceed its price point, i.e. crap.

The CAT rating is reasonably irrelevant. Any multimeter sold in Europe should be CE marked. To get a CE mark they must comply with the Low Voltage Directive, which says it has to meet IEC61010 - it does not necessarily require a CAT rating.

On that score, one of the requirements of 61010 is mis-connections. For example connecting the maximum rated voltage into the current input should not result in physical damage to the meter (it is OK to blow fuse). Given that, I doubt that the current input is unfused.

Neil

[Bored@Work]

Given that, I doubt that the current input is unfused.

But it says so on the case in the image in the PDF datasheet. 20A, 10 sec, unfused. The 200 mA input is fused.

[Neilm]

Given that, I doubt that the current input is unfused.

But it says so on the case in the image in the PDF datasheet. 20A, 10 sec, unfused. The 200 mA input is fused.

The datasheet shows the standard as IEC1010. That standard was replaced by IEC61010 in 2003.

If that input is unfused, I would not buy it as I would have questions over the other parts.

Neil

[alm]

The CAT rating is reasonably irrelevant. Any multimeter sold in Europe should be CE marked. To get a CE mark they must comply with the Low Voltage Directive, which says it has to meet IEC61010 - it does not necessarily require a CAT rating.

Doesn't IEC61010 require the manufacturer to assign a CAT rating to each input? Or is CAT I assumed in the absence of any rating? Anyway, the specs claim that the inputs have a CAT rating but the printing on the case suggests something different. This makes me doubt the spec sheet.

The CE mark, even if it does not stand for China Electronics, is usually self-certified (not sure if DMM's require independent verification), so its value is limited unless you trust the manufacturer/importer.

[Neilm]

Doesn't IEC61010 require the manufacturer to assign a CAT rating to each input? Or is CAT I assumed in the absence of any rating? Anyway, the specs claim that the inputs have a CAT rating but the printing on the case suggests something different. This makes me doubt the spec sheet.

The CE mark, even if it does not stand for China Electronics, is usually self-certified (not sure if DMM's require independent verification), so its value is limited unless you trust the manufacturer/importer.

I believe that the ratings of each input should be shown - it does not necessarily have to have a CAT rating shown - if absent then it is assumed to be CATI.

The CE mark is often self certified. Some times, this results in some VERY dodgy results. For example, I have seen an instrument that only "met" the CAT rating by redefining it.

Neil

[hacklordsniper]

I bought one 680R for restoring it. Quite nice, all discrete components and quite simple. However it was burned many times and fixed by many amateurs its completely destroyed.

[eternal_noob]

Thanks for all your inputs guys. Yes, every one of them.

Since I refuse to buy a double priced instrument from that Elfa ''moneyhole'' and that I also have tried to contact the only E-bay seller I could find, but can't get a reply from, I'm finally raising my middle finger to the whole I.C.E. thingy.
Now I have found a ''Elma BM821'' here in Norway that is a rebranded Brymen BM821. This one have fused inputs and all that jazz and I'm sure it will suit me just fine. The price isn't too bad either. About 230USD.

http://www.elma-instruments.no/_nb-NO/v:2278;130070?visma5.prodno=5706445410316
http://www.brymen.com/product-html/cata820/Bm820L2.htm