Is this true? Will americans be required to have microchips?

[FenderBender]

Our healthcare system is in a poor state right now...we get it.

[ablacon64]

Healthcare in Brazil is ridiculous also, you're not alone.

[FenderBender]

Not to distract from this energetic healthcare debate. But what do all the non-americans on this board care. Its funny I never hear people here arguing what the British should do or complaining that the Australian prime minister is stupid. Why are you all so worried about what we are doing? As fas as I'm concerned that's the great thing about their being different countries your happy with how your healthcare system works and I'm happy with mine.

I agree with you. I'm proud to be an American but that doesn't mean everyone here agrees with what our government does or says. I love what our country stands for. What happens is a different story. No need to tell us what's wrong with our own country. I know this is general chat but damn sometimes it gets old, every time I log on, people are bashing our government or have one of our problems under the microscope. I don't know what people expect of America. We're a great country. We're a world leader. But we aren't perfect and just about every American will admit to that.

[akcoder]

FWIT one of the things I don't like about our universal health care, is that everyone pretty much pays tho same, and there is no (financial) incentive to actually live a healthy lifestyle.
I like paying for medicare of course, because that's how the system works. But I'm (who lives a healthy livestyle) paying the same as a morbidly obese chain smoker with preventable diabetes etc
It doesn't seem right. But I don't think there is an easy solution for this.

Dave.

I try to stay out of politics. I personally think both parties in the US are asshats. But I'll weigh in on this one :-)

I'm a registered Republican, but only because I'm a small government kind of guy. That said, my opinion on the health care system in the US is that which we currently have is unsustainable. The private healthcare market is eating working folks alive. I currently pay ~$500 a month for my portion for myself, my wife and two kids. Thats almost 7% of my income. And thats just my portion.

A few years back I got a letter from my employer (a 2000+ person company) telling me that their portion plus my portion of the health insurance was just a tad under $25k / year. And I would not consider the plan that we have a "Cadillac" plan by any stretch.

I don't know about you, but I think that is flat unsustainable. The only solution as I see it is universal healthcare with a co-pay. Want to go see the doc for anything other than preventative care? Pony up $25. That will keep people from going to the doctor/hospital to get aspirin/Tylenol/etc. $25 shouldn't be to big a burden, but should be enough to keep people from abusing the system.

-dan

[perfect_disturbance]

As fas as I'm concerned that's the great thing about their being different countries your happy with how your healthcare system works and I'm happy with mine.

That's because (I would presume) you are:
a) employed
b) insured
c) likely have no chronic condition making you reliant upon the medical system

Dave.

Your right on all 3 counts. But if I were in unemployed I would qualify for Medicaid. If I had no insurance because I couldn't afford it I would also probably qualify for Medicaid. And I have friends and family that have chronic medical conditions and many of them are pleased with their insurance. I don't think it's as bad as many of you think. I've lived here all my life and never heard of someone being thrown out of a hospital because they can't pay. Does our system have flaws yes (for one even if you have insurance it can be pretty expensive.) But Evey system does. My mom is from Canada and I remember my Grandma waiting over a year for a cataract surgery that it would have taken weeks to get here. It's a tradeoff. For me and 52% of Americans we like it better than the way it's heading.

[FenderBender]

Yes. I think the American media and the world media likes to make us look like shit...because that's what the media does.

It's not that bad. It is for some, and it's not right, but it's not as terrible as is perceived. But it's weak. Weak foundation. Yes, right on that. It can't go on forever like this.

[poptones]

If you think the system we have now is working, you need to open your eyes.

Unpaid debt is a HUGE problem. Every time you go to the hospital, pay insurance, go to the doctor, buy groceries, get gas, shop at walmart... you pay because of health care. Because every large business has to offer health care coverage which means premiums. So their costs rise, so prices rise. And the reason for all this is that Millions of Americans have unpaid medical debt which they will never be able to cover. The hospiotal has to charge more so those who can actually pay will cover the costs of everyone else. And the insurance companies have to pay the hospitals, and the workers and the companies have to pay the insurance companies... it's a clusterfuck. No, it's a circle jerk and our economy is the pivot man.

http://www.thecincinnatiherald.com/news/2012-08-04/News/Majority_of_Ohio_adults_do_not_have_unpaid_medical.html

That's the ticket. MOST americans don't have unpaid medical debt. But a large minority do. Not surprisingly, this minority shares many commonalities with most other minorities in our society: poor, under educated, poor credit rating, unable to own property, unable to get good employment, unable to stay in school...  This unpaid debt screws their credit score which makes them even less likely to get out of their poverty. So there they remain, getting fatter and sicker off the food they eat because they can't afford vegetables and produce and decent breads and cereals.

And we're all paying. Not just in taxes, but in everything we buy and in everything we own.

[EEVblog]

I'm a registered Republican

I really don't understand this "registered" thing. How does that work?
Here in Oz, you have to vote, you don't/can't "register" for any party, you just turn up and vote for whoever pissed you off the least 

, but only because I'm a small government kind of guy. That said, my opinion on the health care system in the US is that which we currently have is unsustainable. The private healthcare market is eating working folks alive. I currently pay ~$500 a month for my portion for myself, my wife and two kids. Thats almost 7% of my income. And thats just my portion.

A few years back I got a letter from my employer (a 2000+ person company) telling me that their portion plus my portion of the health insurance was just a tad under $25k / year. And I would not consider the plan that we have a "Cadillac" plan by any stretch.

I don't know about you, but I think that is flat unsustainable.

That is absurd!
Only a fool would think that is sustainable in any way.
In Oz, if you don't have private health insurance (basic hospital cover is like $30-$40/month or something IIRC) and earn over a certain amount then you pay an extra medicare levy of between 1%-1.5% of your income.
Now with Sagan we pay about $150/month for private cover for all of us + obstetrics etc, and that's a top tier plan. Plus as a working person over a certain threshold we pay 1.5% of income a year as a basic Medicare charge. We don't pay the above additional surcharge because we have private cover.
So well under $4K/year for our entire family on top tier private cover.
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/health-privatehealth-consumers-medlevy.htm

We could easily forego private cover and still be protected for everything. It's just a choice of whether you want public or private hospital. And it actually cheaper to have a basic private plan than pay the surcharge for not having it (or it used to be).

Dave.

[FenderBender]

I'm a registered Republican

I really don't understand this "registered" thing. How does that work?
Here in Oz, you have to vote, you don't/can't "register" for any party, you just turn up and vote for whoever pissed you off the least 

Well you can vote for whoever you like, obviously, just when you register to vote, you can identify yourself as a republican, democrat, other. If you want to vote in a primary for a certain party, sometimes you need to be registered as a member of that party. Doesn't always work like that. Part of it may just be for statistical purposes.

[perfect_disturbance]

Just curious Dave but what's your tax rate like in Aus? If you need a surgery like cataracts or knee surgery what are the wait  times? How long are waits in emergency rooms? What are tort laws like in Aus?  It definitely sounds like healthcare is more affordable there but as has been pointed out before there is no such thing as a free lunch so I'm curious how the cost is covered. Maybe Drs get paid less or there are less greedy business types taking a cut I'd be curious where the difference is.

[poptones]

The "register" thing is to help keep the two parties as the only parties. There are all sorts of rules including having certain number of registered voters in a party in order to qualify for matching campaign funds. If your party is small and you can't get at least two percent (whoops, they changed the rules after Ross Perot almost made it and now it's five percent) don't vote for your "party" candidate for President then you don't get any matching funds.

Some states won't allow you to vote outside your party in primaries. They have repub/dem primaries at differnt times and if you're a repub, you can't nominate a dem for office. Again, it's just another way of making sure those in the middle remain as much an unheard minority as possible.

[perfect_disturbance]

I'm a registered Republican

I really don't understand this "registered" thing. How does that work?
Here in Oz, you have to vote, you don't/can't "register" for any party, you just turn up and vote for whoever pissed you off the least 

Well you can vote for whoever you like, obviously, just when you register to vote, you can identify yourself as a republican, democrat, other...I think it might be for statistical purposes?

Keep in mind that registering as a republican or democrat is different than registering as a voter although in many cases you do both at the same time.

Stating party affiliation is required in some states to vote in a primary this is to keep people from voting in more than one primary to select the other parties weaker candidate.

General voter registration is a mechanism to prevent ballot box stuffing or other voter fraud by recording in advance that you intend to vote and where. So someone can't vote at 5 different voting locations and things like that.

[akcoder]

I'm a registered Republican

I really don't understand this "registered" thing. How does that work?
Here in Oz, you have to vote, you don't/can't "register" for any party, you just turn up and vote for whoever pissed you off the least 

Well you can vote for whoever you like, obviously, just when you register to vote, you can identify yourself as a republican, democrat, other. If you want to vote in a primary for a certain party, sometimes you need to be registered as a member of that party. Doesn't always work like that. Part of it may just be for statistical purposes.

That is the only reason I'm registered for any party. I'll actually probably sit out this coming presidential election, but only because IMHO to quote Southpark; my choices are between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

[akcoder]

, but only because I'm a small government kind of guy. That said, my opinion on the health care system in the US is that which we currently have is unsustainable. The private healthcare market is eating working folks alive. I currently pay ~$500 a month for my portion for myself, my wife and two kids. Thats almost 7% of my income. And thats just my portion.

A few years back I got a letter from my employer (a 2000+ person company) telling me that their portion plus my portion of the health insurance was just a tad under $25k / year. And I would not consider the plan that we have a "Cadillac" plan by any stretch.

I don't know about you, but I think that is flat unsustainable.

That is absurd!
Only a fool would think that is sustainable in any way.
In Oz, if you don't have private health insurance (basic hospital cover is like $30-$40/month or something IIRC) and earn over a certain amount then you pay an extra medicare levy of between 1%-1.5% of your income.
Now with Sagan we pay about $150/month for private cover for all of us + obstetrics etc, and that's a top tier plan. Plus as a working person over a certain threshold we pay 1.5% of income a year as a basic Medicare charge. We don't pay the above additional surcharge because we have private cover.
So well under $4K/year for our entire family on top tier private cover.
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/health-privatehealth-consumers-medlevy.htm

We could easily forego private cover and still be protected for everything. It's just a choice of whether you want public or private hospital. And it actually cheaper to have a basic private plan than pay the surcharge for not having it (or it used to be).

Dave.

Once I started really piecing together how much my health care was costing me, thats when I switched to being in favor of universal coverage. Mind you the amount I pay for health coverage doesn't actually cover anything until I've spent $500 in the year. And then the insurance company will pay for 80% of "usual and customary charges" until I've hit my "out of pocket" limit. Then they cover 100% of "usual and customary charges."

And that is why I rarely go to the doctor, even though I have coverage.

[EEVblog]

Just curious Dave but what's your tax rate like in Aus? If you need a surgery like cataracts or knee surgery what are the wait  times? How long are waits in emergency rooms? What are tort laws like in Aus?  It definitely sounds like healthcare is more affordable there but as has been pointed out before there is no such thing as a free lunch so I'm curious how the cost is covered. Maybe Drs get paid less or there are less greedy business types taking a cut I'd be curious where the difference is.

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/12333.htm

If you are only in the public system, wait times for elective surgery can be fairly long I believe. In private, it's pretty much straight away.
Emergency wait times depend the severity of your issue. It can range from instant, to many hours in a public hospital.

I don't know the in's and out's of the differences that make our (and other universal health care systems) systems affordable compared to the US system, but it has a lot to do with corporate greed I'm sure. Most other universal health care system work on similar tax rates and percentages to as our Oz system I believe, so the US must be doing something horribly wrong... I don't think it's any one major thing.

I don't know anything about tort laws in Oz, but if mean medical lawsuits etc, then they seem to be very few and far between here. We aren't a very litigious society.
Dave.

[Bored@Work]

But what do all the non-americans on this board care.

Lets ask it the other way around. When has America stopped to tell the rest of the world how things should be run?

Its funny I never hear people here arguing what the British should do

You apparently didn't follow the Julian Assange case very well. Or the discussion in Europe why the British don't start to do anything against the criminals harboring The City.

or complaining that the Australian prime minister is stupid.

I think that is pretty much taken care of. Googling "Juliar Giullard stupit" gives approximately 1,270,000 results.


People discuss everything everyday. And I am sure one of the upcoming discussions wlil be why the EU didn't deserve the Peace Nobel Price.

[EEVblog]

I think that is pretty much taken care of. Googling "Juliar Giullard stupit" gives approximately 1,270,000 results.

As much as people think I like to rant about the US government, I can assure you I complain about the Oz government even more!

Dave.

[twbranch]

all governments suck. who can say which is right and which is wrong.

[twbranch]

Our healthcare system is in a poor state right now...we get it.

You said it. The problem is nobody knows how to fix it.

[M0BSW]

Didn't Australia have government run healthcare? I may be wrong but I was thinking they got rid of it because it didn't work! I don't live there so I have no idea.

No, we did not get rid of our government run universal health care. It works just fine, like it does in every country that adopted it. As far as I know, no country that has adopted it has abandoned it, because it works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Australia)
Some things are good and bad with it, like everything, but the fact is no one dies because they cannot afford health care or do not have insurance because they lost their job etc. And that's the whole point of universal health care, if you get sick, you get treated, regardless of your socio-economic status. No one has to worry about their health because they lost their job.
If a homeless bum on the street has a heart attack, they will get immediately treated by the best doctors in town.

Dave.

not sure how your health scheme works Dave is it similar to ours in the UK NHS,paid out of wages for those who can , but service is free to every UK citizen, I just wonder if yours is the same.

[M0BSW]

Not to distract from this energetic healthcare debate. But what do all the non-americans on this board care. Its funny I never hear people here arguing what the British should do or complaining that the Australian prime minister is stupid. Why are you all so worried about what we are doing? As fas as I'm concerned that's the great thing about their being different countries your happy with how your healthcare system works and I'm happy with mine.

a) Because I have a lot of Yankee friends. Forgive me for caring and wanting to be part of the debate.
b) America is the world leader in bat-shit crazy government, politics, financial excess, and international bullying. And a lot of what America does can have global repercussions that does actually effect us outside the US. And it's morbidly fascinating if anything. Better than reality TV that's for sure. Everyone likes to watch a train wreck in slow motion 

Dave.

I personally  have a lot of American friends , from the Radio Amateur world, some of which come and visit us & stay a while, I care very much what happens to them, not so keen to visit them in the US, as imigration think every human being is a terroist, and in my experience treat any visitor like bits of crap, and I'm white English born and bred, but that's another thread.

[G7PSK]

The NHS (National health service) gets a lot of stick from the press but I cant fault it it saved my life. At the end of July 2009 I found myself pissing blood and was diagnosed with renal carcinoma (Kidney cancer) on the first of September I had my right kidney and a piece of liver removed during a seven hour operation, they went in from the front leaving a 14 inch scar due to the size and lay of the tumor. To date I am clear of cancer and have not needed any chemo or radiation therapy, So what ever the nay Sayers do or say I know the public health service works and in many ways is far better than the private health services where the bottom line is profit, my brother in laws brother was enrolled in a private health scheme by the company he worked for, on one of the annual check ups they decided that his prostate was smaller than usual and so he must have an exploratory operation to find out why so he was booked into the local BUPA hospital which is next door to the NHS hospital that I was in for my OP.Well they managed to give him an infection failed to do anything about it as it was the end of the week and the staff was all going away for the weekend, so on Sunday they had to call out the air ambulance to fly him to Adenbrooks hospital in Cambridge but by this time it was too late to save him, if he had been in an NHS hospital there would have been a far higher staffing level and he might well have been saved even more likely is he would not have had an operation to find out why his prostate was smaller than usual as it would not have been deemed as required.   

[SeanB]

Lucky you have a health system. Here public hospital is BYO everything, from food to bedding to dressings for your stay. They found a body this year of a patient that went missing a few months before.......... New administrator went in last week, left after 3 days for "Personal reasons". Waiting list for "Urgent" can be days, many die in the queue awaiting the few doctors left, to say nothing about the medication they have, basically  you get what they have, which could be anything, irrespective of what is wrong with you.

Go there for AZT and you get given generic paracetamol, or even birth control pills.

[ablacon64]

Our healthcare system is in a poor state right now...we get it.

You said it. The problem is nobody knows how to fix it.

Long run, but it can be fixed. First, governments have nothing to give, they don't create, produce or improve anything, they have to take to give. How? Taxes. You'd be better if you managed your own income instead of paying the government to receive back 1% of all it takes from you, if you do get that.

In Brazil we work 5 months a year to pay taxes, if the government was not involved in anything I would give a better use for that money. Governments must guarantee only your negative rights, that mean it should take care of your safety only, and give you the right to fully protect your property (in Brazil, if an assassin comes into my house to kill my wife and son, if I kill him first, I go to jail). So I'm a libertarian (do not know the right english word for that).

[ablacon64]

Interesting video a friend just sent me (audio in  English, subtitles in portuguese):

That is scary...