i suck at auctions

[apelly]

I got sniped out of a boat load of flux tonight. Just by not being prepared:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=695675147

If it was one of you guys, what say you share 500ml with me? I'll even give you your $2.50 back!

Failing that, perhaps someone can recommend something that doesn't cost $200/litre?

[mrflibble]

Couple of packets of el cheapo rosin flux from China mixed with IPA?

[Fraser]

Confused....you got sniped out of winning with a bid of $2.50  Surely a higher bid on your part would have been more realistic ? Maybe I am reading this wrong but I tend to bid in the last few seconds as that is how to win items on these auction sites without instigating a bidding war.

e*ay and such like are not auctions in the normal sense of the word. It has ended up more like a sealed bid system. To win items you have to adapt to teh difference.

As a seller, I set a realistic start price and anything more is a bonus 

[apelly]

Yea... I was following the "make your own flux" thread. I just thought this would have been better. The only reason I didn't auto-bid up to $50 was I have some archers brand flux that eats tinning for breakfast.... It's the only thing ever that's required me to have a tin of tip tinner... I wasn't sure if it was an age thing, and the flux in that auction looks plenty old!

[apelly]

Confused....

Fair call. See previous post.

Also, I feel like a twat now. (totally my own fault.)

[Fraser]

As you state, that Flux container is marked up as early 1990's.....that is very old. Who knows what state the contents are in.

I was not being mean in my response, I just couln't understand how you got outbid at such a low end price. I have completely missed auctions that I had intended to bid on so we are all human.

Personally I would prefer to find a 100ml of nice quality new flux than a litre of old and potentially knackered stuff so don't lose any sleep over this 

[sleemanj]

Next time, use bidbud.co.nz to place your bid :-)

Wasn't me, I'm in chch.

[apelly]

bidbud.co.nz

You're joking! This is the second time this week I've learned about a sniping tool. After hearing about esniper I specifically googled for some trademe equivalent and came up empty.

Ah well. You live and learn. Thanks for the heads up sleemanj

[nanofrog]

You might want to see if you can get a bottle of MG Chemicals Rosin (835) (they sell bottles in 125ml, 1L, and 4L sizes).

FWIW, Mektronics in Australia carries it (125ml size).

[Psi]

Unless you're on a 33k modem i dont see how you could have been snipped.

That auction used auto extend, so you had 2min to put in another bid.

[apelly]

I was out, and using my phone. I was interrupted and I fumbled my keepass password, so by the time I had my shit together it was too late. Even though I was actively watching it at the time.

In short; I was a twat. And now I'm a twat in public too. 

At least I learned about bidbud.

[Psi]

heh

autobid is your friend

[Galenbo]

autobid is your friend

The auction house has all your data on a server like name, autobid_maxvalue,...
The auction house has a % on the reached selling price
The auction house ...

[apelly]

Next time, use bidbud.co.nz to place your bid :-)

Thanks for the tip. Only took two years:
https://www.bidbud.co.nz/1226826170
Don't even need it anymore. I'll only buy 4 containers and I'll give most of it to my HAM club. I guess the rest will get relisted, in case anyone else is interested.

[Someone]

Step 1, determine how much you want to pay for the item.
Step 2, put that bid into the ebay/whatever platforms auto bid system.

Now it is sure you pay only what you think it is worth and no more, if someone else thinks its worth more they can have at it. The psychology of keeping the price low throughout the action will not lead to lower prices, the only way to lower prices is if people don't bid. By not auto bidding at your realistic valuation you're just helping the snipers maintain their false market (they'll tell you not to auto bid so they can keep getting lower prices).

[sleemanj]

Well, I'll be, you actually CAN have too much flux :-)

[Cubdriver]

Step 1, determine how much you want to pay for the item.
Step 2, put that bid into the ebay/whatever platforms auto bid system.

Now it is sure you pay only what you think it is worth and no more, if someone else thinks its worth more they can have at it. The psychology of keeping the price low throughout the action will not lead to lower prices, the only way to lower prices is if people don't bid. By not auto bidding at your realistic valuation you're just helping the snipers maintain their false market (they'll tell you not to auto bid so they can keep getting lower prices).

I have to disagree on that being a good strategy.

Follow the above advice and:
Step 3 - an incremental bidder comes along and bids a few $ at a time, a bunch of times, then gives up a few dollars short of your max bid.
Step 4 - thanks to step 3, you win the auction, but pay a much higher price you would have had you waited till the last moment and sniped.

-or-

Step 3 (alternate) - Incremental bidder(s) come along and bid the price up beyond what you were willing to pay.  You don't get the item.

Bottom line - am I willing to pay, say, $100 for a given piece of equipment?  Yes.  Would I much prefer to get said piece of equipment for, say, $25 or $30?  Absolutely.  I'd be a fool to say otherwise.  Am I more likely to get it, and for less $$, if I wait till the last moment and don't give the incremental bidders a chance to bid it up or start a bidding war with me?  Also yes.  For a seller, snipers are teh suxors.  For a buyer, it's the only way to go, IMO.

-Pat

[Towger]

Step 5: Don't buy one man's toxic waste. Unless you are sure you can turn it into gold.

[Brumby]

Bottom line - am I willing to pay, say, $100 for a given piece of equipment?  Yes.  Would I much prefer to get said piece of equipment for, say, $25 or $30?  Absolutely.  I'd be a fool to say otherwise.  Am I more likely to get it, and for less $$, if I wait till the last moment and don't give the incremental bidders a chance to bid it up or start a bidding war with me?  Also yes.  For a seller, snipers are teh suxors.  For a buyer, it's the only way to go, IMO.

Absolutely agree - but with one qualification.... "For a seller, snipers are teh suxors." - not of you have two (or more) of them.  Then. the snipers can be the saviours.

Snipers, at least, will put in a far more realistic amount than 'nibble bidders' - and remember (for eBay auctions at least) the winning bid value is not determined by the highest bidder ... it is determined by the second highest bidder.

The difference between a sniper and a nibble bidder is this:
 - A sniper will bid for a win and hope for a bargain.
 - A nibble bidder will bid for a bargain and hope for a win.
Who is the more canny?

Those who put their maximum bid in days before the end of an auction are just asking for nibble bidders to push up the price - but if a sniper chimes in at the last moment, then the nibble bidders will have just been wasting their time.

[CatalinaWOW]

Bottom line - am I willing to pay, say, $100 for a given piece of equipment?  Yes.  Would I much prefer to get said piece of equipment for, say, $25 or $30?  Absolutely.  I'd be a fool to say otherwise.  Am I more likely to get it, and for less $$, if I wait till the last moment and don't give the incremental bidders a chance to bid it up or start a bidding war with me?  Also yes.  For a seller, snipers are teh suxors.  For a buyer, it's the only way to go, IMO.

Absolutely agree - but with one qualification.... "For a seller, snipers are teh suxors." - not of you have two (or more) of them.  Then. the snipers can be the saviours.

Snipers, at least, will put in a far more realistic amount than 'nibble bidders' - and remember (for eBay auctions at least) the winning bid value is not determined by the highest bidder ... it is determined by the second highest bidder.

The difference between a sniper and a nibble bidder is this:
 - A sniper will bid for a win and hope for a bargain.
 - A nibble bidder will bid for a bargain and hope for a win.
Who is the more canny?

Those who put their maximum bid in days before the end of an auction are just asking for nibble bidders to push up the price - but if a sniper chimes in at the last moment, then the nibble bidders will have just been wasting their time.

I guess I agree with the religious argument comment.  I have used both strategies, with so far as I can tell equivalent outcomes.  But maybe that is because I don't understand all the rules.  The second highest bidder?  I am not sure what you mean by that.  The only thing I know that applies is EBay's rule that the first of equal bids wins.  This is a benefit for automatic incremental bidding because the date you set your high bid counts as the time of your final bid.  Means that if an incremental bidder and a sniper have equal values for an item, the incremental bidder wins.  I have benefited from this.  A defense against this for both types of bidders is to pick an "odd value" for your limit.  Not $100 but $103.15 or whatever.

[Brumby]

But it has become quite a religious (based of faith not fact) thing to go on supporting "snipe" bidding. Since you cannot know who is interested or how much any one person will pay or when they will make their bid, predictions about the outcome are faith based. All anyone can know is how much they are prepared to pay.

Where is there any difference here between sniping and any other forms of bidding?

All sniping can achieve is to reduce the available window for slow typists or those with a slow internet connection  to respond.

Rubbish.  The idea of a snipe is to reduce the window so that even someone who has gigabit internet and types faster than you can speak won't have a that chance.

Or perhaps most usefully to save those with a psychological predisposition from exceeding their value limit in a bidding frenzy.

I'll give you that one.

Snipe bidding sites have removed any advantage that may have ever had.

Utter crap.  Live sniping, by someone who knows what they're doing will still out-do any sniping site.  They are, however, useful for people who want to be lazy about it.

  Effectively making an autobid limited by a persons estimation of the value, only doing it at the last possible moment.

So?  This is bidding.

But if someone put a higher bid than you, then you will not win the auction  regardless. Nothing else matters.

That is true - no matter when a bid is placed during the auction.

As with all religious debates this one too will not ever be settled.

What is there about this that is a "religious debate"?  Nothing.

Your use of the word "faith", perhaps?  You might want to think that - but the fact is, faith has nothing to do with it.  The amount of ANY bid is a function of what the other participants are willing to place.  That's not faith - that's just another unknown.

[Brumby]

The second highest bidder?  I am not sure what you mean by that.

If the highest bidder sets their maximum at $100 and the second highest bidder set theirs at $35, then the auction will be won by the person who bid the $100 .... but they will win it for only $36.  This is the second highest bid amount of $35 plus the "bid increment" for that value range - which is $1.  This is the type of scenario that a sniper hopes to encounter.

The only thing I know that applies is EBay's rule that the first of equal bids wins.  This is a benefit for automatic incremental bidding because the date you set your high bid counts as the time of your final bid.  Means that if an incremental bidder and a sniper have equal values for an item, the incremental bidder wins.  I have benefited from this.

True - but these situations are not the norm.

A defense against this for both types of bidders is to pick an "odd value" for your limit.  Not $100 but $103.15 or whatever.

Yes.  I do this all the time.

The most exciting success for me was bidding on a 20" CRT monitor (it was quite a few years ago) when the bids were under $100 with 10 seconds to go - but then 7 snipers jumped in.  I won with a bid of $167.67 - beating out the second highest bidder who put in $167.00.

[Fraser]

With a feedback of over 4000 on eBay I have to say, with some experience over the years, early bidding has always cost me as people either get carried away trying to find out how much you have bid, or just increase the bids a few times and give up (out of devilment ?) They are not serious bidders willing to pay a fair sum for an item. I do not use automated bidding. I always place a small bid to show interest as some sellers will pull the auction if no interest is shown. I then bid my maximum in the last 10 seconds to avoid a silly bidding war. I win some, I lose some. I have had some excellent deals and paid much less than the maximum I bid in the last seconds of the auction. You cannot get away from the fact that last seconds bidding is the norm on eBay, it is accepted, and you get a rush out of such when bidding.

If I sell, I set a start price with which I am comfortable to sell. Anything more is a bonus. I never run 99p auctions with no reserve. Those who do may be trying to save listing costs, attract attention to their auction or may well be inexperienced. A seller who lists at 99p is not truly in a position to complain about last seconds bidders. He/she may set the start price and if the item is worth that price, a bidder will buy it. Some sellers hope for bidding wars. Experienced buyers know to avoid such and bid late.

If eBay disliked the last second bidding they could easily have a system that either closed the auction at random in the last 10 minutes, or that extended the auction for 2 minutes after each bid received to allow counter bids. They do not do this because they know many of us enjoy the game of last minute bids and the flurry of activity that occurs in the closing seconds of the auction.

I say again .... the seller sets the start price. I have little time for sellers who whinge that an item sold undervalue when they set the start price too low. On occasions I have won a £100+ item for the maiden 99p starting bid. I have often felt guilty and sent an additional 'top up' payment but I have never received a thank you for such. I no longer worry. I have also had several sellers either refuse to send the item, claim to have posted it and not, or stated that it is lost/damaged so cannot be sent. There will always be the odd issue when using eBay but in my case I have been very grateful that it exists and I have had some great deals over the years.

If bidding against me on something I want, You will not see me bid more than twice. Once at the start and once at the end. To outbid me you will have to bid higher than my unknown last seconds bid, simple as that. I have bid £350 on a thermal camera recently and the nearest bid to me was only £127. There was the real opportunity for a higher bid but no one went for it.

Fraser

[tautech]

Next time, use bidbud.co.nz to place your bid :-)

Thanks for the tip. Only took two years:
https://www.bidbud.co.nz/1226826170
Don't even need it anymore. I'll only buy 4 containers and I'll give most of it to my HAM club. I guess the rest will get relisted, in case anyone else is interested.

Even 4 containers, say ~16 litres is a crazy amount of flux. 
Now many lifetimes of Flux is that ? 

If you're embarrassed with too much I'd be interested in a few hundred mils of it.

[hendorog]

I like the auction format where the auction keeps going until bidding stops for 10minutes. More like a real auction.

Not sure if anyone actually pointed this out, but www.trademe.co.nz (the linked site where this thread began) has this feature.
Auctions stay open until 2 minutes after the last bid.

Sniping sometimes still works though - on auctions which finish at odd times, and/or less popular stuff where other bidders might forget to be online.