How is Chipageddon affecting you?

[mikeselectricstuff]

There are pretty much no suitable buck converters left on Digi-Key for the condition of 3V-7.5V input (ie. up to 4xAA Lithium),  1A output.  I found one LT device at £9.80 a chip.  114 pieces left, so would do a third of one batch...

The shocking thing is there are 35,000 items listed... and only 5,000 of them have any stock at all.

...and it is such hard work finding suitable parts on LCSC - they do have parametric search, but it doesn't inspire confidence, so it's a lot of work searching through datasheets.
I have found subs for a few unobtanium parts there, including RS485 transceivers, dual MOSFETS, even some HCMOS, but it's been hard work.

[HwAoRrDk]

...and it is such hard work finding suitable parts on LCSC - they do have parametric search, but it doesn't inspire confidence, so it's a lot of work searching through datasheets.

Yeah, their parametric search is very hit and miss depending on category. Some categories it's good, some almost totally absent. In some cases they don't even categorise parts as what they are. Case in point being a while back I found completely by accident they stock numerous cheap key-matrix interface chips, but you'll never find them because they're all described only as LED drivers.

[f4eru]

There are pretty much no suitable buck converters left on Digi-Key for the condition of 3V-7.5V input (ie. up to 4xAA Lithium),  1A output.

Wot ??
There are many, for example the good 34063, in many variants.
https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/detail/onsemi/MC34063ADR2G/919066

https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/filter/pmic-r%C3%A9gulateurs-de-tension-r%C3%A9gulateurs-%C3%A0-d%C3%A9coupage-cc-cc/739?s=N4IgTCBcDaIMwBYAMA2OIC6BfIA

[floobydust]

Survivor of nuclear apocalypse - cockroaches.
Survivor of chipocalypse - MC34063 ? 

[tom66]

There are many, for example the good 34063, in many variants.
https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/detail/onsemi/MC34063ADR2G/919066

Yes, because I'm going to put a 34063, which needs like a 220uH inductor and electrolytic capacitor, on a board that measures less than 30x30mm.

Not to mention its abysmal efficiency, its lack of any control loop (it's just a pulse-skip pulse-fire converter) and low switching frequencies, making it a nightmare for EMC.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not - but no one sensible is designing a 34063 into a new product - and that's why there are squillions of them in stock.

Thankfully, MPS saves the day... they have the perfect parts and we just got what we needed.

[f4eru]

So what ?
1) it's available
2) It works reliably
3) it's cheap.
4) it's much more efficient than a linear reg.

Although i've never put a 34063 in a design, I regularily put ICs with the same design age into modern designs.
Hammers don't age.
Hammers don't go out of stock.

Concerning EMC, slower less harsh switching makes EMC easier...

[tom66]

So what ?
1) it's available
2) It works reliably
3) it's cheap.
4) it's much more efficient than a linear reg.

Although i've never put a 34063 in a design, I regularily put ICs with the same design age into modern designs.

Yes, it is all of those things, but it's also an EMC nightmare, requiring larger input filters, its low switching frequency requires large magnetics and capacitors (and crucially it probably can't use ceramics), and it's inefficient compared to what modern products are typically requiring.

We need to get 8+ hrs at 2.5W load from batteries, we can't do that if a chip like this is throwing away 20% of the energy.

I would rather design in a hard to buy part than a 34063.

We're not designing VCRs any more.

[rob77]

only domain where MC34063 is still in use is the crappy car USB chargers from china and hobby projects where PCB real estate is not at premium.

nowadays you go for a modern switcher running at 1MHz , it's sot23-6 or smaller , tiny inductor and a couple of tiny MLCC caps. few square millimeters on the board

[f4eru]

nowadays you go for a modern switcher running at 1MHz

Sure, I do also. Usually. But today, you can either do that, and wait 2 years for your boards, or put available alternatives, like old inefficient designs, or discrete solutions, and Bingo, get your boards in 2 months.
Vinyl disk sales overtook CDs...
Alternative, old ICs and discrete designs are making comebacks, more than you expect....

[rob77]

btw... AP3211KTR-G1  @ tme.eu 28k in stock..  sot23 1.4MHz 1.5A buck.  , so it's not that bad yet

[tom66]

The problem is, our competitors have these ICs, they are buying them at any price in some cases.

So you either join the party or you lose out on sales because you're not competitive / can't meet requirements etc.

I don't work in consumer electronics so appreciate the semiconductor shortage is more of an inconvenience than a disaster, we have paid $50 for chips in the past when needed, we try to avoid it of course but it is an option for us.

[nctnico]

There are many, for example the good 34063, in many variants.
https://www.digikey.fr/fr/products/detail/onsemi/MC34063ADR2G/919066

Yes, because I'm going to put a 34063, which needs like a 220uH inductor and electrolytic capacitor, on a board that measures less than 30x30mm.

Not to mention its abysmal efficiency, its lack of any control loop (it's just a pulse-skip pulse-fire converter) and low switching frequencies, making it a nightmare for EMC.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not - but no one sensible is designing a 34063 into a new product - and that's why there are squillions of them in stock.

Thankfully, MPS saves the day... they have the perfect parts and we just got what we needed.

Yup. I have designed some switchers from MPS in as alternatives as well. No need to resort to using outdated components that are a really poor fit for modern day designs.

[tom66]

I have a feeling there will be a few winners like MPS, Maxim, Linear Tech, Richtek, maybe Microchip and then a lot of other Chinese OEMs as a result of chipageddon.

They have managed to keep many parts in stock & their FAEs are on the ball, we had MPS chasing around for a few hundred pcs of an e-fuse and they had no problem finding that after a week or two, and not at scalped prices or anything, $1.50 a chip.  TI is just crickets. 

Almost entirely TI-only board got all the parts replaced with MPS chips and I'm happy for those to stay, really nice detailed datasheets, helpful FAEs, decently performant devices... Only real complaint is their parts are quite 'passive-heavy', like one of their SMPS chips requires an RC compensation network still.  But, I'll take that over nothing for sure.

[floobydust]

Microchip 2022 Investor Presentation, it's all unicorns and rainbows. Ahh do we all feel the massive profits and love?

Managing A Soft Landing
• We recognize that macro conditions are weakening, although we do not see any weakness in our business
• We expect to be supply constrained throughout 2022 and into 2023
• If or when macro weakness catches up to our business, we believe we can achieve a soft landing because:
• Strong PSP (≥ 12 months NCNR) backlog that is >>50% of our total backlog
• Significant cushion from near term unsupported backlog that is greater than 100% of supported backlog
• Need to replenish distribution inventory which is at a historic low of 17 days
• Need to replenish internal inventory and build more die bank and finished goods
• Above average secular growth trends provided by TSS and Megatrends strategy
• Much lower capital needs which will help drive free cash flow
• High variable compensation which will buffer operating expenses

What are these executives smoking?  $6.8B in sales, up 25.7% yoy - yet 100+week leadtimes for a venerable Mega328! This is sadly hilarious 

From News Releases, Investor Presentation BOA GlobalTech Conference June 2022.pdf

[tom66]

As said before, 100 week leadtimes are a problem for the SMEs.  I bet Microchip has all the contracts they need with big players, e.g. Arduino & consumer electronics manufacturers so that they can still buy the 328's they need.

This is a sucky time to be an individual engineer (trust me, I'm now respinning three boards due to availability) but as a semi mfgr it's pretty great because you more or less sell everything you produce immediately.  You have much lower warehouse/distribution costs if things fly off the shelves.  Not to mention the per device prices are going up, so if you have your own fab capacity or long term agreements on other capacity, you're printing money.

[floobydust]

How semi manufacturers have zero interest in anything but the whales, is a very serious problem.
It's going to cause a mass extinction event, for small and medium sized businesses, as well as discouraging people from getting into electronics in the first place.
Greed is good, greed is legal. What a way for the electronics manufacturing and engineering industry to get wiped out, by beancounters.

Ordering automotive NXP samples... "2024 expected ship date". Thanks for the FU. It's all about your sales dollar amounts, or the comment "why would anyone design-in your unavailable parts?". Bark and the rep is able to bring them in a couple weeks 

[MT]

[VK3DRB]

Microchip 2022 Investor Presentation, it's all unicorns and rainbows. Ahh do we all feel the massive profits and love?
...
What are these executives smoking?  $6.8B in sales, up 25.7% yoy - yet 100+week leadtimes for a venerable Mega328! This is sadly hilarious 

From News Releases, Investor Presentation BOA GlobalTech Conference June 2022.pdf

These executives don't have their ear to the ground, they are hiding the truth, or they simply don't care. There is nothing in TI's annual report about the high risk of engineers using competitor's products in new designs because TI had failed to supply parts. The little man has been sent to the far queue. I don't believe for one minute TI is not making BQ and buck/boost chips for the big players. Is it ethical to ignore most of your customers and treat them like crap?

There is nothing wrong with making a profit. But there is when ethics are compromised by greed. We have our Crown Casino here in Melbourne which ran an extensive money laundering and tax evasion racket for years, not to mention getting employees to break the law in China and abandoning them when they were sent to jail. Zero ethics. The three top execs resigned in disgrace with a $10 million payout and none of them went to jail. Around the time that scandal broke out, I drove 65 kph in a 60 kph zone and got fined $250 immediately by our police.

It is apparent the big end of town is favoured over the little man. Everyone should be treated equally and fairly. The reality is often does not happen. If TI had half a brain and a long term vision, they would supply some parts to small company engineers for validation builds etc. and stop cheesing everyone off.

[tszaboo]

So what ?
1) it's available
2) It works reliably
3) it's cheap.
4) it's much more efficient than a linear reg.

Although i've never put a 34063 in a design, I regularily put ICs with the same design age into modern designs.
Hammers don't age.
Hammers don't go out of stock.

Concerning EMC, slower less harsh switching makes EMC easier...

And it has the quiescent current that would cut the battery life of my design to about 1/1000th of the design goal.

How semi manufacturers have zero interest in anything but the whales, is a very serious problem.
It's going to cause a mass extinction event, for small and medium sized businesses, as well as discouraging people from getting into electronics in the first place.
Greed is good, greed is legal. What a way for the electronics manufacturing and engineering industry to get wiped out, by beancounters.

Ordering automotive NXP samples... "2024 expected ship date". Thanks for the FU. It's all about your sales dollar amounts, or the comment "why would anyone design-in your unavailable parts?". Bark and the rep is able to bring them in a couple weeks 

It's worse than that. All the industrial manufacturers, who are making machinery, are only ever going to order several thousands of some chips, instead of several millions. The ones, that are building the production line, and not the product. Imagine ASML not getting the ICs that are necessary for the machine to make the ICs. This can spiral out of control very quickly.

[tom66]

It's worse than that. All the industrial manufacturers, who are making machinery, are only ever going to order several thousands of some chips, instead of several millions. The ones, that are building the production line, and not the product. Imagine ASML not getting the ICs that are necessary for the machine to make the ICs. This can spiral out of control very quickly.

But unlike an SME, a company like ASML can probably afford to buy a $1,000 PIC24 from a broker if they need to, after all, the business has something close to a 50% gross margin.

[JPortici]

As said before, 100 week leadtimes are a problem for the SMEs.  I bet Microchip has all the contracts they need with big players, e.g. Arduino & consumer electronics manufacturers so that they can still buy the 328's they need.

and who cares of that ancient junk, PIC16F876A and the like are in the same situation. (incidentally microchip lists it as NRND)
Instead, all "modern parts" (those released in the last 10 years) have a slow constant supply (every 8-12 weeks a few hundred/thousand pieces appear to the various disties) and more and more parts from atmel are being migrated to microchip's own fabs

we were lucky to just have 1 month of "no stock" between 2020 and now, but we were always able to find it in the end.. and we have almost replenished our supply for another year, so we can place an order for a couple of reels of everything and wait in queue. some of our older products were even updated to run on new silicon, thankfully pin-to-pin compatible upgrades are always possible with microchip parts, it's almost zero effort to find a compatible part, most of the time you have only to select the same pin count. can't say that for many other manufacturers.

By the way, why don't they TRY to standardize pinouts for DC DC converters/controllers, as it's done on countless other chips? It's a pain that you have to redesign a board around a different controller..

[tszaboo]

It's worse than that. All the industrial manufacturers, who are making machinery, are only ever going to order several thousands of some chips, instead of several millions. The ones, that are building the production line, and not the product. Imagine ASML not getting the ICs that are necessary for the machine to make the ICs. This can spiral out of control very quickly.

But unlike an SME, a company like ASML can probably afford to buy a $1,000 PIC24 from a broker if they need to, after all, the business has something close to a 50% gross margin.

It was just an example. When the loop like this becomes larger, the willingness to pay scalpels are becoming less and less. I'm in one of these loops, and for example I cannot build a temperature controller for the transport company, that carries the paint for your car.

[coppice]

But unlike an SME, a company like ASML can probably afford to buy a $1,000 PIC24 from a broker if they need to, after all, the business has something close to a 50% gross margin.

Interesting. You think a business like ASML can survive on a 50% gross margin?

[SilverSolder]

It's worse than that. All the industrial manufacturers, who are making machinery, are only ever going to order several thousands of some chips, instead of several millions. The ones, that are building the production line, and not the product. Imagine ASML not getting the ICs that are necessary for the machine to make the ICs. This can spiral out of control very quickly.

But unlike an SME, a company like ASML can probably afford to buy a $1,000 PIC24 from a broker if they need to, after all, the business has something close to a 50% gross margin.

It was just an example. When the loop like this becomes larger, the willingness to pay scalpels are becoming less and less. I'm in one of these loops, and for example I cannot build a temperature controller for the transport company, that carries the paint for your car.

Is it not possible to redesign?  - using discrete components

[MT]

Imagine ASML not getting the ICs that are necessary for the machine to make the ICs. This can spiral out of control very quickly.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/how-is-chipageddon-affecting-you/msg4098640/#msg4098640