How does this snake oil really work?

[mmartin49]

Endorsement (most recent one) by Matt McMahon, in his review of some of my recent output:
"Stone, this is yet another beautiful creation of yours. You're one of the smartest guys I know and there can really be no value put on the quality of your work. Great job. Beautiful contribution to the HHO community."

If you google that quote (from a "customer" I presume) you can find OP's web site... http://www.inventionaire.ca/HHO/50-50Box.html
Somehow, I don't think anything said here can change his mind.

Dave, that video was amazingly entertaining ! Thanks !

[TMM]

What I find repulsive in this thread is people jumping on this guy, not for they understand better what's going on but because others are jumping on this guy.

For all his wrongs, the Stone guy experimented and attempted to understand what was going on. The fact that he didn't do it right is no reason for others to step on him.

Tell him why he was wrong, explain to him in clear language, and put your counter examples out there to help this guy understand electronics better.

Spitting on someone, especially when he is in a ditch, is disgusting.

Normally i would agree, however stone guy seems to have a problem with admitting that he is wrong. With replies like "I've been an avid student of the quantum vacuum for 16 years. Pretty sure I understand what I'm doing, thx." he is pretty much asking for it.

I do cringe every time i see an EEVBlog "<thing> is BULLSHIT!" video in my YT feed, i think Dave gets wound up a bit too much. Makes me slightly embarrassed to be an engineer for some reason...

[MrZwing]

I do cringe every time i see an EEVBlog "<thing> is BULLSHIT!" video in my YT feed, i think Dave gets wound up a bit too much. Makes me slightly embarrassed to be an engineer for some reason...

Well I can understand somewhat your point.
But as a newbee I actually learned a great deal from the video even though I new Stones claims was BS from the beginning.
I though that video was a goldmine of information even if you exclude the mythbusting.

Yet again I thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, and a extra BIG thank you for Dave for taking his time to make a video about it.
This forum is really starting to feel like home for me.

/MrZwing

[EEVblog]

Dave, that video was amazingly entertaining ! Thanks !

Glad you enjoyed it, that was the aim, rather than just pure myth busting I could have done in sub 10 minutes.

[lapm]

Maybe Dave should do another fundamentals friday, "a  free power edition...". Teaching how properly measure energy coming in and energy consumed... 

[FrankBuss]

Maybe Dave should do another fundamentals friday, "a  free power edition...". Teaching how properly measure energy coming in and energy consumed... 

No need for complicated energy measurements. Just connect the output to the input and then it should run on its own, maybe driving a motor for some days, without any battery or other external power supply. No one built such a device so far (with independent prove that it works), so all such "free energy" devices are bullshit.

[Fungus]

A shitkicked year old alkaline Costco issue Kirkland will NOT 'give at least 3 watt hours'.
Check the independent quotes from others online who have published their testing of many kinds/brands of AA battery. You will find that this grade of Alkaline give out something much closer to the value I suggest in the video - around 2,184mAh, times the average of 1.1 V, gives you a total output of 2,310 mWh.

...which is about 80% of 3 watt hours - switching to milliamps doesn't change the value!

(Some of these answers are priceless.     )

[SL4P]

I'd like to give credit to ManOfStone - if only for 'manning up' to stand his ground and respond in a largely coherent and adult way. 

HOWEVER, it can't be ignored that his head is firmly buried in the sand, as he repeatedly refuses to acknowledge weaknesses in the original proposition - despite the facts it's not even his own concept!

All this to-ing and fro-ing has now reached a point of complete and utter irrelevance.
MOS had a novelty video. The underlying theory was debunked and a rational horde would move on to revisit the principals - to see if something valuable could be salvaged from the smoking wreck.

Maybe pigs can fly.  Dave - make a video please?

[dannyf]

No one built such a device so far (with independent prove that it works), so all such "free energy" devices are bullshit.

That's probably a little simpleton.

Absence of evidence is no evidence of absence. Before someone built an airplane, no one had built an airplane - does that mean "airplane" is BS?

You can easily extend that to thousands of things we take for granted today.

[tom66]

If free energy / overunity is to be possible, I would not expect it to come from something as benign as an LCR circuit. Such a circuit is well studied and understood. It would be from the "quantum vacuum" (or insert two other science-sounding words), or some other esoteric, poorly understood phenomenon, probably at the subatomic level. We could use a "zero point module" to extract the energy.

[dannyf]

Maybe pigs can fly.

I can remove your doubt there: pigs DO fly.

[SL4P]

If free energy / overunity is to be possible, I would not expect it to come from something as benign as an LCR circuit. Such a circuit is well studied and understood. It would be from the "quantum vacuum" (or insert two other science-sounding words), or some other esoteric, poorly understood phenomenon, probably at the subatomic level. We could use a "zero point module" to extract the energy.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of two parallel spinning disks or masses - mounted on air-bearings or similar - always replacing their own volume as they spin. (Not ignoring the friction effect of surface currents).

Engaging these two identical masses - probably electromagnetically - to transfer motive energy back and forth between driver / driven coils on their facing surfaces. 

Pure fantasy, I realise, but this has been in my mind literally for years.

[SL4P]

Maybe pigs can fly.

I can remove your doubt there: pigs DO fly.

I feel better already.  The pills are working.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

You people are rather cruel to Man Of Stone. You totally disregard his study of the Quantum Vacuum. I too am a student of the Quantum Vacuum.
I can truthfully say here in this forum, that it out performs the Dyson and the Oreck hands down.
Nothing picks up the deep down dirt, even in the deepest shag carpet, like the Quantum Vacuum.
And bags are a thing of the past!. Simply empty, and rinse with ordinary tap water. It's ready to go.
For all your tough cleaning, choose the Quantum Vacuum.

That's about all Man Of Stone knows from his "studies" of the Quantum Vacuum.............

[mrkev]

A shitkicked year old alkaline Costco issue Kirkland will NOT 'give at least 3 watt hours'.
Check the independent quotes from others online who have published their testing of many kinds/brands of AA battery. You will find that this grade of Alkaline give out something much closer to the value I suggest in the video - around 2,184mAh, times the average of 1.1 V, gives you a total output of 2,310 mWh.

...which is about 80% of 3 watt hours - switching to milliamps doesn't change the value!

(Some of these answers are priceless.     )

Well, he didn't even used those 3 watt hours. Based on video, he had 64mA maximum current and 17mA minimum. He wrongly thinks that the discharging was linear, but because the circuit takes less current as the input voltage drops, the current curve is exponential - Dropping quickly from 64mA and than staying at lower currents... You can even see that at the video, since the first drop over 12hours is to value about 46mA - almost his claimed average, so he is 14 hours off...
The average current was most likely somewhere below 30mA. Take it with average voltage 1,1V over 52 hours, you'll get 1,7Wh. Which is most likely what he actually got from that battery, (as he claimed he used it for powering some projects before); and that could be the problem why he is so crazy about this.

[Kean]

ManOfStone neets to buy himself a Mooshimeter! 

[mamalala]

No need for complicated energy measurements. Just connect the output to the input and then it should run on its own, maybe driving a motor for some days, without any battery or other external power supply. No one built such a device so far (with independent prove that it works), so all such "free energy" devices are bullshit.

I was about to post something similar. Doesn't even need to be a "power-hungry" motor. A single LED would be sufficient. To decouple (electrically) the output that is fed back to the input, simply use an isolated DC/DC converter. It's quiescent current is very likely to be lower than what his 20+ LED's use. So all that the circuit has to power is the isolated converter and a single LED. Add a buffer cap at the circuits input. Once it is running, flip a switch that toggles the input between the battery and the output of the converter.

If, as that guy claims, the circuit is producing more energy out than in, the LED should stay lit indefinitely.

Also, another good hint that "more energy out than in" is not real: the vast majority of our electricity is produced in fuel burning power plants. If any of that overunity stuff were real, those companies would be all over it. Imagine, they could charge you the same price for electricity, while not having to spend a penny on fuel. Which means way more profit for them. And they are good at scaling things up as well. Doesn't matter if all a single, simple circuit can drive is a few mA at a few volts. They would simply scale it up massively, be it by making the circuit itself beefier, or by simply massively paralleling millions of them.

That none of these two things ever happened is a very, very good indicator that this "overunity" stuff is bullshit. No small scale demo that runs for a year without any battery, nor any electricity companies increasing their profits that way.

Greetings,

Chris

[con-f-use]

Okay, that's not that good an argument because just scaling up might not be so easy. If the efficiency is close to but still above unity you might have losses else where. It might not be economical to scale up.

But it's not that a lot of people UNSUCCESSFULLY looked for such processes for A LONG TIME. We can detect stuff that's 12 billion light years away. We can see the weirdest, most energetic events in the universe. NEVER have we seen energy being created out of nothing on any scale including "quantum vacuum". That should be enough to be very sceptic. If it involves two transistors, a coil, a bit of wire, LEDs and an AA battery, chances are at least one of the seven billion people on this earth has tried it.

[EEVblog]

Maybe pigs can fly.  Dave - make a video please?

I have, 38 seconds in:

[Biggsy]

ManOfStone,  Please repeat the experiment with a tiny watch battery instead of an AA.  That will be more convincing than saying the AA is depleted.

[G7PSK]

I think you will love this other video by man of stone, would appear that he is worried about nano tube particles ans semiconductors turning him into a human RFID chip.

http://youtu.be/KY-NZP3de08

From his you tube video. "ALUMINUM OXIDE, BARIUM AND STRONTIUM -THAT'S NOT ALL

There is new evidence out, from several highly accredited sources/people, that chemtrails contain:
-nano tube sized threads (to carry the rest of the evil to you)
-semiconductors (to communicate/turn you into a human RFID chip)
-red blood cells, containing GNA/PNA (simpler forms of DNA, that are easier to manipulate) that will change YOUR DNA
-virii and bacterium to mess with your physiology (pathogens) and kill you sooner

Yes, the truth is out - they are moving to cause a DE-evolution of our species."

 

[Galenbo]

I do cringe every time i see an EEVBlog "<thing> is BULLSHIT!" video in my YT feed, i think Dave gets wound up a bit too much. Makes me slightly embarrassed to be an engineer for some reason...

It makes me ashamed as an engineer that other engineers stand BULLSHIT without any problem when it's sugared enough, and cant't stand anyone debunking it with facts. Whatever the kind of language used.

[Galenbo]

Dave, that video was amazingly entertaining ! Thanks !

Glad you enjoyed it, that was the aim, rather than just pure myth busting I could have done in sub 10 minutes.

For me, there was no need to prove that there's no quantum vacuum or overunit etc involved, nor led and volts and currents,
but I absolutely like the way it is explained in the video.

Very fundamentally founded facts, simple explication, and a great way to put everything together.

[keethrax]

No one built such a device so far (with independent prove that it works), so all such "free energy" devices are bullshit.

That's probably a little simpleton.

Absence of evidence is no evidence of absence. Before someone built an airplane, no one had built an airplane - does that mean "airplane" is BS?

You can easily extend that to thousands of things we take for granted today.

Sort of. On the other hand, if someone at that point in time said 'I built an airplane!', the burden of proof would be on them, not everyone else. And being something revolutionary, it had better be pretty thorough.

[Quarlo Klobrigney]

And then there's this, his own HHO water resonance cracking device:
http://www.inventionaire.ca/HHO/50-50Box.html
So please tell me what exactly is the frequency of H2O when it is to be cracked?
Damned if I know.
It seems you don't know either.
The device is variable over a frequency range of  9.5 Hz to 256 KHz to crack your local water supply, into Hydrogen and Oxygen.
All of us know of course, that the exact water "crack spot" will vary in frequency do to the sunspot cycle and moon phase.
And so cheap. Only $997 to purchase such a fine bit of handmade shit kit.