Hiring a versatile person challenge

[IanJ]

Man, I would love to have a job like that. Shame I'm thousands of miles away on another continent.

Ditto.

Ian.

[b_force]

I don't agree at all with the comments that this is impossible.

Definitely not impossible.

The way to find these people, is to have a proper job description to start with. Next is selecting them on their experience. So see if they did a lot of stuff in the past. That means they are willing to work.
I even prefer picking people with a lot of (hobby) experience over people with a degree. Knowledge is easy to teach, experience is not.

This is a tough one for me. My experience is that when I define the position clearly - I end up with people that really just want to do that particular job. They may even be fantastic at it as well. When they learn that they also need to jump in to the shipping 'department' to get things to a customer, they feel like they should not be asked to do that or at least don't take any responsibility for it since it is not a defined part of their job.

On the other hand, a loose description can be rather scary to some otherwise great candidates. At the end of the day - this is our 3rd person including me. There is no way to specialize or be too good to sweep the floor periodically. When I still had my CNC shop in-house, I regularly cleaned and organized MYSELF even though I had 12 employees. I pointed out to most of them that I am doing that because they are not doing it as they went along - the ones that only did what they were told did not last. I personally take the trash out, design circuits, machine parts, update the web page, label folders, pack boxes, etc. Whatever needs to be done on that particular day is the job of everyone until the team is large enough to divide the tasks.

Last but not least, even if everyone is expected to wear many hats, also let them specialise.
Otherwise their daily tasks will be way to vague.
And be aware you are not going to find anyone with exactly ALL those skills.
You're looking for people with potential.

For sure. I want people that can find a groove they are good at and enjoy. As that naturally happens, hopefully the business will grow to hire the next person to take some of the unrelated tasks off the table.

In fact this job also sound like nice to me.
Ever thought about working with remote freelancers?

If you can remotely setup a PCB run, test them, assemble the whole mechanical system with 500+ parts, and then ship it while working remotely - you are in. 

Check your private messages.
(I thought I send one before, but for some reason I lost it or so....??  )

[tautech]

Check your private messages.
(I thought I send one before, but for some reason I lost it or so....??  )

To see your Sent PM's you have to enable it from within your profile, it's not setup by default.

[mrpackethead]

Im your man. Only you can't afford me. Lol

Advertise for what you want, see what you find.

Figure out which is the best and accept that theres going to be some holes in your list and that you'll have to plug them up.  Then try to fill those holes next hire.. 

I'm also now a big believer in hiring engineering students in Year 3/4 of their study..  You can easily hire them on casual contracts and its an awesome job interview. You'll figure out how good they are.  I'm about to take one on full time and look to hire another one.

[tooki]

I would kill to get into a place willing to give me the time and support to get up to speed. I'm a super quick learner, but how am I supposed to get experience if I can't get in anywhere? (I am a job seeker at the moment, and this is a constant problem, everyone only wants experienced hires, but how am I supposed to gain said experience if I can't get in the door??)

I don't want to derail the thread but the answer to that question is: build circuits by yourself at home.

Two things about that: 1. Hobby experience and work experience are not the same thing in most cases. Even if you hypothetically built the exact same item, work experience goes beyond just doing the work. There are tons of other skills one acquires on the job, like how business works, workplace communication, etc, as well as industry "insider" knowledge. Very few industries accept personal experience in lieu of professional experience and/or professional qualifications. And finally, there are some types of experience you simply cannot gain outside of the workplace. For example, to gain experience with enterprise storage arrays, you have to work with enterprise storage arrays, but a young person is not likely to have $100K of storage gear at home to practice with.
2. I wasn't referring to electronics exclusively (just as the OP's job isn't exclusively electronics). The problem of companies seeking a fresh bachelor's graduate with 7 years experience with a product that's only existed for 3 years is widespread.

[CatalinaWOW]

I suspect that you cannot fill your needs exactly.

You describe a person with the drive and capability to start and run their own business, and expect to keep that person indefinitely.  Perhaps rewickering your needs will aid in finding and hiring someone who can satisfy you.  Either add the aversion to being their own boss (I have known a few like this, mostly folks who have been badly burned by the small business life), or accept that you will be a short term (3-8) year employer of the individual, trading training and experience for the energy and skills of the individual over that interval. 

[nctnico]

I would kill to get into a place willing to give me the time and support to get up to speed. I'm a super quick learner, but how am I supposed to get experience if I can't get in anywhere? (I am a job seeker at the moment, and this is a constant problem, everyone only wants experienced hires, but how am I supposed to gain said experience if I can't get in the door??)

I don't want to derail the thread but the answer to that question is: build circuits by yourself at home.

Two things about that: 1. Hobby experience and work experience are not the same thing in most cases. Even if you hypothetically built the exact same item, work experience goes beyond just doing the work.

Sorry but it does work that way. Say you have 2 fresh-out-of-school candidates for an EE position. Ones builds circuits at home and has shown some examples during the interview and the other one doesn't. Which one is the most likely to get hired?

Remember: everyone needs to learn the 'office politics' so that is equal across all people you hire.

[rx8pilot]

I suspect that you cannot fill your needs exactly.

Not a chance. This is a aim for the stars and hope for the moon scenario.

You describe a person with the drive and capability to start and run their own business, and expect to keep that person indefinitely.

I have had a couple of really smart people that did exactly that. They were using the opportunity as a stepping stone and that is fine - I could see it coming for miles and I am proud to have provided and little push we may have provided.

The other super stars simply did not have the guts to do their own thing. They had the drive to be great at what they do but too risk averse to give up a regular pay check. Honestly - I don't mind either way. A short term or long term as long as they love to learn and learn quick. There is no expectation of finding a lifer.

Sorry but it does work that way. Say you have 2 fresh-out-of-school candidates for an EE position. Ones builds circuits at home and has shown some examples during the interview and the other one doesn't. Which one is the most likely to get hired?

No doubt if a candidate loves arduino projects and making 3D printers at home - the is a HUGE plus! It shows drive and enthusiasm for creating things. Those people have learned how to learn which cannot be forced on them as a job description.

[tooki]

I would kill to get into a place willing to give me the time and support to get up to speed. I'm a super quick learner, but how am I supposed to get experience if I can't get in anywhere? (I am a job seeker at the moment, and this is a constant problem, everyone only wants experienced hires, but how am I supposed to gain said experience if I can't get in the door??)

I don't want to derail the thread but the answer to that question is: build circuits by yourself at home.

Two things about that: 1. Hobby experience and work experience are not the same thing in most cases. Even if you hypothetically built the exact same item, work experience goes beyond just doing the work.

Sorry but it does work that way. Say you have 2 fresh-out-of-school candidates for an EE position. Ones builds circuits at home and has shown some examples during the interview and the other one doesn't. Which one is the most likely to get hired?

Remember: everyone needs to learn the 'office politics' so that is equal across all people you hire.

That's an entirely different point from the one I was making. And I'd like to re-emphasize that I wasn't talking about electronics specifically.

Yes, personal interest/extracurricular knowledge is always helpful. Nobody's saying otherwise. But if a company says they want someone with 5 years experience working on weapons guidance targeting sensors, there's no way you can acquire such experience at home. If they want someone with customer service experience, again, you cannot acquire that experience on your own. (I happen to think that customer service skills are largely innate, but this point is lost on most hiring managers.)

[rx8pilot]

But if a company says they want someone with 5 years experience working on weapons guidance targeting sensors, there's no way you can acquire such experience at home. If they want someone with customer service experience, again, you cannot acquire that experience on your own. (I happen to think that customer service skills are largely innate, but this point is lost on most hiring managers.)

Yes, this is why I hope to be very careful about wording the job description and requirements. Of course it would be fantastic to find someone with many years of experience in our exact skill space but it eliminates 99.99% of the possibilities. That is more of a problem when you operate in a very niche market like we do. In general, I am hoping for potential which comes from a wide variety of sources. One of my best guys in the past built boats previously - TOTALLY unrelated to what he needed to do with us (not manufacturing at all). Another one was a party planner previously and went directly into manufacturing and office tasks. The only reason I was interested in them was because of what they did in their free time. They seemed like the types to identify and solve problems on their own. They clearly enjoyed challenging themselves. That is something that cannot be practically taught on the job. If I demand specific experience in PCB layout, assembly, machining, etc - I feel like I would get that skill at the expense of the other tasks they would need to do.

If you were looking for a PCB layout job, for example, and you found yourself shipping products and running to FedEx a few times per week - how would that work out? If I advertise for a true jack of all trades, it's like a cattle call for anyone looking for a job that day.

I still have not found any relevant clubs in my area, but have not given up.


Maybe if I specifically spelled out the top 10 tasks applicants would be expected to learn and we are looking for people that can demonstrate the ability to learn new things? If your hobby is hanging out at the beach with friends - you may not get a call. If your hobby is building things or something that challenges your brain in a technical way - you will get noticed.

[Conrad Hoffman]

I have exactly the skills you want, but it took me 40 years of very unusual employment to get them. I consult now and work 4-5 hours a day for a pretty high hourly rate. Life has made me sufficiently cynical that I'm probably unemployable by any normal definition of employment. You're after what's known as a polymath, and they seem to be few and far between these days. They can be difficult to deal with and keep happy. Are there any Maker Faire sorts of groups or people around you? Co-ops from local engineering schools can be useful, as they may eventually develop into people you can use and hire.

[rx8pilot]

Life has made me sufficiently cynical that I'm probably unemployable by any normal definition of employment.

Ha! Me too. Over the past few years I have received a few offers, but once they learn that I have my own ideas and ways - the discussion goes away.